InvisibleMan

OllyK

Well in that case maybe you should have put

Because I have certainly heard it outside the UK. I suspect if you dig around you'll find a few in this country that also have that opinion, and sure as hell there are some that have kids becuase it will give them benefits NOW. As sure as eggs is eggs there would be far fewer teenage chav Mums about if there were no child benefits to be had.

OllyK

Do me a favour...

Find out how many "career benefit mothers" there are out there. Find out what percentage of the child population of the UK their children account for. Then find out on average how much it costs the state to bring one of their kids up to wage earning age (benefits, education, police time etc). Then find out what the average wage earned by these children is over their life time and so how much over their life they may contribute back to the state. Compare that to what they have taken out of the state (to date, we won't worry about any post 16 jail time costs etc for now). Let me know if they are a net benefit to the state or a drain. Then think if your policy of promoting having kids by handing out large benefits is actually such a bright idea.

I don't claim to know the answers to the above questions, but I do have my suspicions. I look foward to hearing what you find out.

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Another example of wanting more information that is necessary up front!



Taking the quote in context (by amazinggrace), I'm pretty confident we are referring to UK families since thats where we all (mostly) are. I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe that ANY woman has a child for the purposes of looking after them in their twilight years.....

Amazinggrace said that "it makes her blood boil"... this infers that she hears it often/regularily enough to annoy her. I don't think this is the case.

OllyK

I don't mind, but if you only give people part of the information and aren't clear that you are doing so, don't be upset when they take your statments at face value.

Errr - why don't you ask amazinggrace what she means rather than trying to guess? Oh yeah, I know why...

GCollier

I don't recall suggesting promoting having kids by handing out large benefits. I'm dead against career benefit mothers, but as far as I'm aware this thread wasn't about them.

I was simply attempting to get the blinkered "lifestyle choice" brigade to actually appreciate the fact that despite their derision, their own future is actually very much dependent upon the kids of the day. The tens of £k hardworking families invest in raising their children is ultimately part of everyones pension scheme...

Gary.

OllyK

OK...

Since when has stating a fact been blinkered?? Having kids is a choice that the parents make, nobody is forced to have a child. That's a fact plain and simple.

The economic consequences on the UK "if everybody" stopped having kids is a different matter. As we don't have 100% employment in this country it would suggest that we are producing more kids than we can support anyway so why encourage people that can't support them to have them?

m111usy

well whats the point of going on and on and on and ON...........LOL

All Talizman's questions were answerd on the first page of this thread.

Diablo

Olly, you are trying to reason with the unreasonable.

You should have kids for one reason and one reason only.

That is because you want to create another indivudal that is part of you both and that you will love and cherish beyond all else.

Anything else is, quite frankly, bollocks and smacks of desparate attempt to justify having had children for the wrong reasons.

Brendan Hughes

Looks like there's a bunch of kids on this thread that need caring for.

m111usy

website of Ollys dedicated to his dog.......

Both the quotes above say it all really.
Some people prefer humans and some prefer animals.

Diablo

cute dog though

Diablo

Come on Brendan, you can do better than that

Brendan Hughes

Bog off, it's Friday...

OllyK

Not strictly true. I prefer humans to animals for the most part, I just have no interest in having children. However, the reasons and rationale behind having kids and pets are probably not that dis-similar from each other, especially if you consider adopted children. I still stand by the statement that in both cases it is a choice. I see no reason why other people should be expected to fund my choices and I object when other people want me to fund theirs.

OllyK

Cute sure, but selectively deaf and bouncy as they come.

The Zohan

Sounds just like a description of a child!

OllyK

Oh kids and animals are very similar. You'd be amazed at how well dog training techniques work on kids. Mind you, teaching your kid to roll over and play dead on command, is probably of limited use

fast bloke

Might be useful if you can teach the kids not to crap on the street and bite the postman though

Leslie

There was a time when the wife stayed at home to look after the whole family and the husband was the sole breadwinner. Even though the standard of living was obviously much lower, more families used to stay together and the children consequentially had a happier time and grew up better behaved on the whole.

Our modern acquisitive times have a lot to answer for in that respect. Family life seems generally to be going by the board now, and that is not a good thing for the future.

Les

Drunken Bungle Whore

There's some validity in your comments - but there were many children who had wretched childhoods being bought up by 2 people who couldn't stand each other but who stayed together because of social pressures.

OllyK

As indeed there are many children around today who have 0, 1, or 2 parents and have a wretched life.

So in general, is it better to be wretched with 1 parent, 2 parents or no parents present or does it make no difference?

Drunken Bungle Whore

There is a God afterall........

OllyK

You'll have to do better than that

DrEvil

Congrats chap - fantastic news for you both

Different companies have different deals for maternity leave I afraid - same goes for paternity leave too. Its not that bad a deal from you've said chap. As someone else has said, talk to the C.A.B, they should be able to advise.

All the best, I hope all goes well for the three of you!

amazinggrace

Women have told me I am selfish for not having children, and said to me, "but what about when your old, you will regret not having anyone to care for you."
Well if having someone 'care for me' would be like the old lady without the postbox who starved to death and none of her children called on her to see how she was, then no, I don't want caring for!

I have a private pension to pay for me in my old age, hopefully my career will progress and I will be able to ensure myself a very comfortable retirement. I would like to retire early and possibley go to university, as I couldn't afford to go when I left school.

I think people should thank me for not burdening this country with children we do not need. Years ago there was no IVF and all that fancy stuff, if you couldn't get pregnant you didn't have children. Now Doctors can do such wonderful things and help these people. Think of me as redressing the balance. My mother tried for 9 years to concieve me, I am an only child, in her words she was "never blessed again"

OllyK

You're not my other half are you??

Leslie

DBW,

What you say is right of course. Marriage is a difficult thing to get right first time and these days there are so many split relationships since divorce is morally acceptable.

In earlier times parents were mostly prepared to stay together for the sake of the children and would have the responsibilty to at least try to be civilised in the presence of the children

No one can help their honest feelings towards another person but I think thst they should be praised for their unselfish attitude in wanting to do the best for their children.

As Olly suggested, a split marriage is a dreadful situation for the children especially if they have deep feelings for both their parents.

These are observations I am making without wishing to appear in any way judgemental.

Les