wrxseeker

iTrader: (1)

I think I pretty much agree with you apart from the fact that Alliance car Imports dont always have the cars in stock and mine was ordered by me from them and they ordered it from Subaru Cyprus for me. The warranty book is in my name.

I have a letter from subaru UK saying my warranty is registered (and therefore valid) - Dont see how they could they change this now ??

I think Subaru Uk have finally caught on to what has been going on.

One more point, say someone personally imported a parallel import and then sold it privately to someone else would the warranty still be valid ??

Apart from that thanks for the info.

Vipa

OK.... I need to know if the UK is an "exclusive" or "selective" distribution chanel for Subaru.

It would seem on the surface that it is the former in which case it would appear that unauthorised dealers are allowed to bring cars in if it is the latter then they cannot.

Can anyone help... is the UK selective or exclusive territory?

Cheers
V

Vipa

The more I read, the more confused I get.......

This is my understanding of what I have read so far.....

It is not EU regulations that don't allow a dealer to supply to an unauthorised re-seller in a different member state. EU regulations give the supplier the ability to apply such an embargo on it's dealers! So in that case this has nothing to do with breaching EU regulations, It is up to Fuji HI whether this is allowed or not.

Also... if the dealer is selling to an un-authorised re-seller in a different member state which happens to be an "exclusive" distribution chanel (which I THINK) the UK is, then the above does not apply and the dealer is allowed to sell vehicles to an un-authorised re-seller without restriction.

If the country or territory of the re-seller is a "selective" distribution
chanel then it is not allowed without a prior signed mandate from the end user requesting the "intermediary" source them a vehicle.

Someboby please pull this apart....

V

Paul MCK

FAO Alliance Clients Only



First of all if any of you have any problems with your car and require warranty work, please contact me, I have been assured by both Subaru Malta & Subaru Cyprus that they will pay for any warranty work that has been normally, up to present been carried out by Subaru UK for the last 7 years, so why change the goal post NOW? Is this legal?



Both Owners of Subaru Cyprus & Malta have flown to Japan to discuss with the manufacture these issues

They are furious with the UK and will do all in their power to resolve this issue



I am also in contact with the EU commission of whom I have faxed various paperwork sent to clients by Subaru UK



I these letters it states that vehicles sold to a unauthorized reseller is a contravention of EU law is Totally INCORRECT this has been confirmed by the EU

I have been asked to send various more documentation including service/warranty booklets to them showing that the warranty is registered to the end user, I await the commissions comments



I am also working very closely with What car?

Magazine on these warranty issues, of whom are giving their full support to me



One of my client has asked Subaru UK to put in writing they will not fix his car under warranty as it requires work and they have refused to do that, so @ present it looks like we have a very strong case

If it were cut and dry they would have supplied a letter in writing



I promise that I am doing all I possibly can @ present to resolve these issues with IM group, I have been working on this issue non stop since Tuesday morning



I would like to thank various clients for their support so far on this issue



Kind Regards

Managing Director

Alliance

Phil

Nice to see Alliance are not shrugging there shoulders in this matter but actually trying to resolve the situation

Please keep us informed

Vipa

+1 on that..... First class organisation.

V

wrxseeker

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Paul.

Its good to see Alliance are keeping up the excellent service I recieved when I bought the car.

Thank you for your efforts.

gubby

So, Subaru and Subaru UK are pissed off with the great unwashed purchasing cars from car supermarkets cheaply are they?

So how do they respond? Do they compete on price? Although offering free PPP or servicing was a start.

No they withdraw their warranties to customers behind a curtain of gobbledegook of EU regulations.

This is the first Subaru I have bought after a sucession of boring repmobiles, I have thrown off my comfort blanket of a company car and entered the real world.

The impreza is the best car I have ever owned. ( by a Mile )

I am so pleased with it that I was already planning my next purchase, say three years hence (when the warranty ran out)

A Forester 2.5XT next time perhaps I thought.

Do you think that I would ever do business with these chancers ever again after their best response to Motorpoint/Alliance etc is to **** up the Customer.

Maybe when hell freezes over perhaps.

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

Excellent work from Alliance again, thanks Paul..!

All this boils down to IM being pissed off with competion from the EU and spouting what seems like 'sour grapes'..!

If only they were an honourable company like Alliance..!

There does seem to be a key difference between Alliance and most other dealers in so much as Alliance cars are not not pre-registered.

FWIW My car was reg. with IM back in Oct 04 and I have a letter (from IM) confirming cross border registration.

MarkGArgyle

Just a thought from a lurker, but as Iain Litchfield is a regular contributor to this site, surely he would also be classed as a parallel importer on his "UK Spec" cars, yet carrying the statement - "These models also have the 3 year Manufacturer's warranty and can be serviced and maintained at you local dealer".

I am only waiting to see a UK My06 in the flesh to decide if subaru ownership is for me.... and before anyone says it I want a new car with the warranty and cannot afford (or justify) a £21k price tag.

Iain, as you are pretty high profile in these parts, do you have a comment about teh subaru warranty on your cars?

Cheers,
MarkG.

Paul MCK

Thanks for your support

Please could you fax me URGENT the letter from IM confirming the warranty this could be a vital peice of evidence

I need this urgent so I can fax it the the various ie EU commission & What car?

The more I work on this the more I want to Nail IM for this

Only one company can give the decision to not honour a warranty being Fuji / Subaru and I think that would be illegal, the only thing I think that can happen in this case is that Subaru Malta & Cyprus may get a warning to maybe not to sell as many cars to the UK

Regards
Paul

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

Paul will do.

There are quite a few SN members who bought cars from Allaince and have recieved warranty confirmation letters from IM, it would be good if all those concerned could fax Paul a copy.

Surely the more people involved the stronger the case against IM..?

firewire

"One of my client has asked Subaru UK to put in writing they will not fix his car under warranty as it requires work and they have refused to do that, so @ present it looks like we have a very strong case"

I have now seen a copy of the letter from Subaru (UK) if you read it it says they cannot put warranty on the car. Why would you want another letter?

The way I see it (and I could be wrong) is the law changed with block exemption. It took IM a long while to figure out what was going on now they are using the the same law that some of you have used in the past to bring cars in from Europe, to try and stop Malta and Cyprus exporting cars illegally.

Thats the way law works I'm afraid. Some bits you like some bits you don't. You can't use the law to your advantage and not expect others to fight back and do the same because you don't like it.

Those of you whose warranty has been honoured are the lucky ones who managed to do so before IM cottoned onto the scam.

HOWY

I shall be happy to fax my letter from IM confirming the warranty arrangements to Paul.

However I would like to see a copy of the letter that IM are sending to people saying that they are not covered. Is this letter being sent retrospectively to Alliance (Cyprus) owners?

Also as I understand it the warranty letters from IM always stated that warranty work would have to be authorised by the supplying dealer (Cyprus) so anyway I can't see what has changed surely IM won't be out of pocket.

It strikes me that this has come about because the UK dealers are losing business to the euro importers. If they are trying to stop imports it will probably backfire as dealers will end up losing extra servicing business and Subaru will potentially lose overall sales.

I hope this matter will be resolved urgently. Have trading standards been contacted?

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

Is it me or are a lot of the negative (anti EU) posters 1st time posters...?

IM employee's anyone..?

DonnieDarko

^^ subaru company worker? i think so. the only scam i see is that subaru (and all other car makers) think that its ok to sell the same car in the US for half the price we pay here and even in europe for less than we pay.

there would be no benefits to importers if the prices were fair in the first place

gouryella

Subaru company worker NO! Realist YES!

wrxseeker

iTrader: (1)

I dont think illegally is quite the right word - i am fairly sure its not illegal for them to export cars.

I dont think Scam is the right word either.

Do you own an impreza ?? Did you buy it in the UK ?? How long have you had it and why choose to make your 1st post on this topic ??

I have to ask as I agree with:

I find it very hard to believe that people without EU cars are interested in this thread and would want to post negative comments - as I said in a previous post - what kind of person wants to bother to say I told you so ???

BTW - Has anyone who managed to get a letter confirming their warranty from IM had one saying its not now valid ??

Vipa

With you on all of this WRXSeeker...

It is not illegal for the dealers to export cars within the EU, All the block exemptions do is try to create competition within a market so that it is more difficult to price fix, will offer better prices for the consumer due to said competition and give the consumer more choice. All very noble if you ask me... here's the lowdown...

(I may be wrong on this so flame suit is on) In an "exclusive" distribution model, ie (my interpretation) where there is one importer setting prices, competition is encouraged within the EU by allowing unrestricted import and re-sale of vehicles by un-authorised re-sellers.

In a "selective" distribution model there would be more than one importer/price setter which should create competition naturally. In this instance the EU look upon it that the supplier is doing all they can to encourage healthy competition and therefore gives them the option to control import by not allowing dealers selling to unauthorised re-sellers in other member states.

The important issue here is that it is the supplier who determines whether or not it is allowed, it is not illegal, just breaking the suppliers rules!

The important question is which model does the UK fall into... "exclusive" or "selective?" It is my belief that IM are stating that we are in a selective model (which I don't understand as there is 1 importer and no competition) In which case it is up to Fuji Heavy Industries to decide whether or not import and unauthorised re-sale is allowed. It is not in contravention of EU law, just FHI rules if they have decided it is not allowed.

As far as it being a scam is concerned???????

I am an EU citizen, I have THE LEGAL RIGHT to buy a car from any EU member state which I did with the aid of an intermediary AT MY REQUEST I hasten to add. The inner workings of Fuji Heavy Industries are non of my concern and I doubt very much that a court, be it UK or EU would expect me to have researched and understood all relevant EU regulations regarding block exemptions and FHI business models! I have done exactly what the EU block exemptions were put in place to allow me to do..... get better value by buying elsewhere in the EU (£6,000 better value!) NO SCAM.... JUST MY RIGHTS!

V

SCOOBYBALL

IGNORANCE IS NO DEFENCE IN LAW
while you may save £6000 you will still have a warrenty but will have to go back to the original selling country in order for it to be honoured

gubby

Lets Wait and see. I don't have my service book yet.

However, I was sold a new car, from a reputable organisation ( I bought my first car from them 6 years ago and they are still in business) advertised as having a three year manufacturers warranty.

Either I have a three year manufacturers warranty or I don't.

As far as I am concerned if i don't, Motorpoint are in breach of contract and I am eligible for compensation of some sort from them for mis-selling, and then they can take this further with Subaru UK.

Dunno where you get this figure of £6000 from. I saved a fair chunk. £3000 less than my next best price.

Nevertheless this sort of thing should not happen, even if Subaru UK are pissed off with the likes of Motorpoint etc undercutting their dealers prices. If screwing up the end user is the best response they can come up with then they are going to lose more than just credibility.

HOWY

WRONG not if the supplying European distributer is still prepared to honour their warranty as has been implied in earlier emails. If Subaru UK dealers refused to do this work then independent garages would do the work I expect

The wording on the original letter I received from IM regarding my cyprus sourced car says

"This is to confirm that your vehicle, chassis number xxxxxxxx is now registered on our system for Cross Border Warranty purposes.

You should be aware of the following points:

The warranty in force is that provided by th eselling distributor, not the warranty that subaru (UK) Ltd applies to its own vehicles.

We do not offer the facility to extend or upgrade the warranty.

The ultimate responsibility for payment of the claim lies with the selling distributor. We have to seek their authorisation for repairs.

We are unable to provide English Language versions of the warranty booklet, due to differences in terms and conditions.

I still don't see why this presents a problem for IM in the UK I think it smacks of protectionism. They don't have to pick up the tab for warranty work!
Its just a ploy to keep prices higher in the UK and protect the UK dealers.

Vipa

Correct.... with one slight grammatical adjustment....

Ignorance of the law is no defence in law!

But we aren't talking about ignorance of the law, we are talking about ignorance of Fuji Heavy Industries business model and as that would be treated as classified information an end user would not under any circumstances be expected to know the ins and outs of it.

The situation has always been that it is the originating dealer in Cyprus (in my case) financially settled the warranty claim. AFAIK IM just provided an administrative route for the dealer back to the originating dealer as the UK dealerships only route for warranty work is through IM.

V

gubby

Bloody marvellous isn't it!!

If this is all they have to do. Why are they being such arseholes. They do seem hell bent on alienating people.

After all, however the cars are purchased they still get to be serviced/repaired by their members, which presumably is far more lucrative than the mark up on sales.

wrxseeker

iTrader: (1)

To quote from thread:

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthrea...46#post3027446

&

Surely someone in your position would know that the warranty claims were always approved by and paid for by the original selling country and that there is no such thing as having a UK warranty for EU Imports ?????

firewire

If you read my first post on this topic I said I own a Subaru and I bought it from a UK dealer.

As far as "Why is my first post on this topic" Firstly I didn't think there were any rules on what your first post could be on.
Secondly, as someone who explored the possibility of buying an import I thought that the findings of my research may be of interest especially in light of what is happening regarding the letters from IM. It is not a case of "I told you so", just me offering my understanding of how things are. If you don't like my views, fine don't read them.

One final point. The definition of a forum is a place for open debate. To have an open debate you require a balance of views. In this particular thread at least it seems the only views welcome are "Let's slag IM"

Vipa

In fairness I don't think anyone is "slagging" IM at all...... Although this situation and therefore this thread are the direct result of IM rightly or wrongly moving the goal posts.

It remains to be seen what the situation really is. I know for a fact that there is current dialogue happening with Brussells as there is between Cyprus, Malta and Japan.

IM may or may not be right in thier actions, that depends on Fuji HI's business models and the interpretation in Brussels of the UK as a marketplace for Subaru.

What is slightly frustrating is the fact that IM AFAIK (my opinion only)stand to gain nothing by changing thier stance....... apart from that is.... reducing thier direct competition and competition in any economy can only be good for the consumer.

Look at things from a different perspective. (I'm quite surprised we haven't had too many trolls in on this but thank you for not flooding the thread with "I told you sos") One of the reasons deals like free servicing and free PPP etc...etc... are made available to UK buyers is to try to compete with indirect competition, i.e. Mitsubishi Evos but also to compete with EU imports. Without the cheaper prices of the imports IM would be reluctant to throw as much money at incentives etc... so from that perspective.... Everone gains, UK customers, EU buyers et al.

Bear in mind that historically IM didn't apply or pay for any warranty claims, they only acted as an intermediary between the UK repairing dealership and the originating EU dealer

The important thing from my point of view is that I sourced my car with the help of a reputable intermediary who is doing everything he can to get the issue satisfactorily resolved, in the interim he has taken steps to ensure my warranty work is done and paid for and I cannot at this point ask any more than that, what I will do is give him any support I can and in the future would not have any hesitation in buying from him again. I certainly don't regret my purchase and still stand by the fact that I saved approaching £6k against the showroom price of the same car when purchased.

V

Bugatti

I don't own a import but fully support the guys that are affected. Mine would've been a import aswell if it hadn't been for the fact that i'm 22 and insuring a wrx is difficult enough without bringing the word 'import' into the quote.


In my opinion your warranties cannot be invalidated by Subaru UK as its not them that are providing the warranty. Surely the only people that can make any decisions on the warranty of an import are those who pick up the tab for any repairs i.e cyprus, malta.

Hope it gets sorted cos my next scooby will be an import as I feel its unjustified being charged alot more for a car thats come off the same production line as the ones in other countries but at a significantly lower price.

Naz.

Silver Knight

Surely the only people that make the decision about working on your car are the UK garages and if there is the slightest chance they wont be paid they wont do the work.!!!
It looks like you may have to send your car back to the supplying dealer to get warranty work done.

AS far as IM is concerned this is makes good business sense as it affects their profits in the UK and anything they can do to stop imports is simply the correct thing for them
to do.
You may not like it, but its simply a company protecting its own interest's

wrxseeker

iTrader: (1)

Thing is Subaru Cyprus and Malta have said they will pay for the warranty work so the dealer would get paid for it.

The dealer also loses out because if there is no warranty to protect most people wouldnt bother taking their car to them for routine servicing.

I totally understand IM's position re profits etc, I just think they have gone about it the wrong way.

The profits the dealers make on servicing the imports would be definately worth the dealers having - trust me they make more % on aftersales stuff.