OllyK

While Cain Dingle may be pretty scary, I think a cane may be a better deterrent

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

OllyK..........Your'e NOT accusing ME of NL spin, surely? I LOATHE the lot of hem, wouldn't go to the bottom of my yard to p*ss on any of 'em if they were on fire AND setting fire to my shed!!

What I posted is true though, the Tories DID start it. So did the European Court of Human Rights. And Labour HAVEN'T done a thing to put it right.

Agreed?

Alcazar

davegtt

Olly, I agree this has been ongoing for a while now BUT this is a girl and theyre only 12. Look at the links that search result has chucked in and you'll see half of them arnt even school related (scouser supporting Liverpool aged 28 stabbed etc) and those that are we're talking 15/16 year olds, how long will it be before we're seeing this behaviour in the primary schools?

T4molie

That's the one

OllyK

I don't dispute either of those statments, however they are irrelevant because

in the 9 years they have been in power. If they were bothered / interested then wouldn't they have done something about it? It's far eaiser for them to point at the people that started it 9 years ago and blame them than it is for them to actually do when they are supposed to be doing.

OllyK

Sure, if the BBC search was half decent I'd be able to force "School" AND "stab", however it doesn't want to play. The original search does return over 70 pages of results however, and while they are by no means ALL school related, a good number are.

I'm not sure I see a relevance of boy vs girl, or even age come to that, kids shouldn't be stabbing each other period, never mind in schools, regardless of sex or age.

Leslie

I wonder how you stop violence in a school in an "approved" manner MikeCardiff?

PC Roman sandal wearers have got tunnel vision and can never be persuaded of the futility of their misguided principles.

The only way to control children is to teach them the meaning of discipline and that they may not do exactly what they want to do and throw their toys out of the pram when they are stopped from doing so. This is the kind of attitude that extends into their adult life and is why we now see so many extremely violent crimes. Even life is becoming of no importance any more if you get in their way!

The only way to teach respect is with the use of neceassary punishment, corporal if necessary, to get a child to begin to see the right way to go through life in such a way that they get the best out of it without screwing up other people's lives

If this mindlessly stupid attitude of non effective punishment is allowed to continue we will soon end up in a completely anarchistic society in which we no longer dare to go out of the front door any more!

It is encouraging to hear that NL have decided that restraint of violent pupils is necessary, but why did they allow it to come to this state and will what they propose be really effective anyway?

Les

PG

Aye right ! A holiday to Spain more like.
My wife is a teacher in a good school -thankfuly- but has had placements in not so nice schools and tbh I would rather she didnt have to restrain anyone. She gets up in the morning and goes to 'teach' not referee! 'Inclusion' and all that PC ****e wants to get the **** out of schools. When I was a lad all the mongs and troublemakers were shipped out to 'special' classes and if they fcuked about there they were out.

MikeCardiff

iTrader: (2)

The restraint thing isnt only for violent pupils, they also use it if the kid is throwing a fit and likely to injure themselves or another child.

Dont know all the details, but they are allowed to approach a kid from behind and lock their arms around them ( in a nice NL style minority pleasing hug ) to pin their arms to their sides to stop them.

The whole point of introducing it was that before they went on the course, if they used the same restraints they could get sued by the parents, now they have a certificate saying they have been taught to do it properly, the parents dont have any comeback.

Maybe it does differ from LEA to LEA, but the Cardiff one seems quite clued up on this and apparently it does make a difference as the kids now know they cant just get away with fighting and the teachers arent allowed to intervene.

I'm sure some of the teachers stick a crafty dig in while breaking up fights though ;0)

mart360

cue the bleeding heart liberals,

its her right, innit, abused as a child, family truama, single parent family, ahd, hyperactive,


anything but the truth or anything that will admit thay they fecked up..

when will they have the ***** to say "nasty piece of work, will be removed perminatley to protect the others... will be sued and subjected to hard labour for the rest of her natural"

hang on though, just shows how much they did following the last pupil who got killed at school...


**** all....


how many kids got killed when i was at school under a non pc government....

ermmmm none

how many kids got killed or injured under a pc government daily!!!!

so come on billy & your sn cronies ,,, your spin on this is??


M

vindaloo

Christ! You mean get their brothers to kill 'em. I think that's going too far

scunnered

iTrader: (1)

I went to a really good school, it must have been good because it was "Approved".

mad_dr

Wow - a riot!

The only bit of excitement WE got at school was from the one lad who used to provide much of our entertainment. His name was Stuart and he'd always been a bit of a wildcard. He'd had problems at home because his parents split up but he was a decent chap. He used to work hard but would NEVER turn down a dare and was always the first to volunteer to do things that common sense (even at the age of 9) told everyone else that it would be best not to. Drinking liquids from bottles with severe labels, seeing whether you could throw 10 stones in a row and hit the small bit of brickwork between the two large windows of the main hall, pretending to trip at lunch and 'accidentally' throwing his tray of food all over a table of girls from year 5. You name it - he'd do it.

One of the most memorable occasions happened during the 30 minute purgatory they used to call Assembley. Becasue of his unsavoury behaviour record, he'd be made to sit in the front row during assembley (this was in primary school when you used to have to sit on the floor while the teachers perched on chairs cradling mugs of hot chocolate). Never one to waste an opportunity, Stuart took great delight in winding the headmaster - a big 8-foot Welsh miner-type called Mr Thomas - up by talking over him and mimicking him. (he might not have actually been 8-foot, but things seemed a lot bigger back then: remember Mars bars?!)

Once, during such a gathering, after about 10 minutes of abuse one of the circuit breakers in Mr Thomas's head must have overloaded. He completely lost his rag, bellowed something at this lad (I think it was in Welsh - it certainly wasn't words that I'VE heard before) and - with superhuman strength - hauled him about 5 feet into the air by his wrist and effortlessly flung him across the room (thank you cleaners for the shine on that parquet!) towards the door! During this whole exchange, the entire assembley of about 300 pupils and teachers sat agog with their jaws hanging open in disbelief!

Stuart got to his feet, looking dazed, turned to the headmaster and let fly with an impressive string of obsceneties that Chubby Brown would have been proud of, before turning tail and sprinting out of the door closely followed by Mr Thomas. Everyone simply sat there in stunned silence for about 20 seconds before someone spotted the lad and the headmaster tearing across the school field, heading for the gate. It was like a scene from the Great Escape! Although nothing was said, you could practically hear the mental chanting of the 300 people gathered: "STU-ART, STU-ART, STU-ART".

Youth clearly had the advantage over insane rage and Stuart escaped certain death, leaving a clearly exhausted Mr Thomas to saunter back to the school building, red-faced and defeated. I think even a few of the teachers were smirking at this point...

From memory, Stuart got a 5-day-weekend for his troubles and managed to behave correctly for at least a fortnight before boredom kicked in and he was back to his old ways. I lost 50p in a bet with another lad when - by our final day at the school - it hadn't been reduced to a smouldering heap by Stuart.

Nowadays people are getting stabbed and killed... How times have changed...

The Zohan

Sad but true!

Markus

Poor girl, quite possibly scarred for life, which is no doubt the thought the other girl had in mind when carrying out the attack. I don't care if you come from a broken home, if your mother is living with a bi-polar, alcoholic, black, female one-legged dwarf, it does not mean you can go around bullying other people, let alone slicing them up.

The other child needs to be removed from the school and placed in a proper borstal (not one of these "send them away on a free holiday to spain" type places) where they *will* be taught the errors of their ways.

We're far to lenient on kids these days. Oh you can't smack a child, it's wrong. Bollocks! If a child is out of line they get a smack, I'm not talking a beating here, a smack. If they are at school, then bring out the cane and give them a few lashes across the palms of the hand or the behind, that should, maybe, teach them that what they are doing is wrong.

I really do hope we see a change to the rules to allow staff at schools the ability to properly punish unruly pupils. Maybe, just maybe, if we start doing what we used to do (hell, I'm 31 and the cane was still in use at school when I was in the second or third year, so it wasn't that long ago, maybe ) then we would not end up with all these chavs around. Then again, the parents need to do a little work, rather than being benefit claming louts who don't care a jot what their child is doing, and proclaim "they are such an angel" whenever they do anything wrong and anyone comments on it.

Felix.

In law anyone can use restraint and resonable force to split up a fight. If you feel you can justify punching someone in the face to stop an attack, then it will be justifiable in law. Its only the teacher's union and the local authority who will not be happy. They will be scared of bad press and counter complaints so will condem teachers taking such actions.

If a girl is carrying a bladed article and is prepared to use it - she has the potential in causing serious harm and death of some innocent person. They should be dealt with as a 'worse case senario' and significant force used if required.

It was not that long ago when a young lad was stabbed to death in school. If things don't change it will happen again.

Leslie

MikeCardiff,

Thanks for the information, interesting to see the approved method of retraint.

The most galling thing is that we are no longer allowed to use our own common sense and instincts any more. The fact that your wife is a teacher in the first place should be enough to allow her to take sensible action of her own without having to be specially trained now.

Les

The Zohan

The poor girl having to live with those scars for the rest of her life!

Apparently it was the blade out of a pencil sharpener. What makes a 12/13y/o girl slash another across the face like that - there is something wrong with the girl and more likely her parents as well.

The girl who did this should be put away until she can be judged safe and not a menace to society.

Like to say a big ‘thanks’ to the PC liberal sandal wearers who have removed the teacher’s rights and leaves them in fear of being prosecuted for getting involved. I listened to a teacher on R5 yesterday telling how he stepped in between a 6' tall 16 y/o pupil and a much smaller female teacher as she was having difficulties. He did not touch the child. There was CCTV footage to back this up. He was still arrested as the child said he had held him and restrained him. The teacher was suspended on pay off for six months whilst this was investigated. The allegations where overturned but the child was not prosecuted or even told off as the Police and CPS will not take it further due to the 'Soham effect' They are scared that kids will not report assaults by teachers/adults in case they are found to be false/made up because it may scare the real cases away for fear of prosecution.
If the kids do not make it up they should have no worries.

Teachers are still pretty powerless event with the new laws.

The problems are poor parenting and kids who know they can get away with what they want when they want.

The thing is these bad kids will then go on to be parents themselves - God knows what their kids will turn out like.

Common sense is needed and a strict approach to bad kids and bad parents.

Common sense and good judgement would solve a lot of stupid legislation that will never be right or just or fair or correct. It's not hard to sort this but we have a nanny gov't who think that their way is the only way - WRONG!

The Zohan

Yes NINE years to sort this, not just one four-year term in government but now on their third term.

Just because the Tories screwed up does not mean Labour get to stand about watching things getting worse.

New Labour = No accountability no-one cares or tries to sort the problems - just blames others.

s-man

Typical snet reactionary bullsh** on show in this thread as well I see...nice. So -which is it this time? The tree huggers? The PC brigade? NL? Immigrants? All of the above...except me?

It's about time the people of this country grew some bollocks and took responsibility for the sh** thats of their own making - of which this is a prime example.

It's not (any) governments fault that a seemingly ever increasing number of parents in this country can't be ersed to bring up their children properly with respect for others and authority. No amount of government 'intervention' or even bit-part return of teacher powers will resolve that underlying issue.

For what its worth, I welcome any steps to grant teachers more powers to deal with trouble makers but they won't ever solve the problem in isolation. The lack of respect that prevails in our schools today starts at home and thats the only place where the rot can truly be stopped.

Bubba po

^^Absolutely spot on.

davegtt

LOL... so your basically saying that everyone in this country is too blame, BUT you still agree with us all..... strange one

Ben WRX Bug-Eye

So what are you suggesting to stop this 'rot' at home? Is it up to the parents of the girl who was slashed to go around and sort out the parents of the girl who did the slicing and dicing. I don't see how you can argue that this task doesn't somehow fall under the remit of the government. I see what your saying, but claiming that it's everybodies fault that society in this country is going straight to hell is ridicolous. If you get mugged in the street I'll remember to tell you it's your own fault. There is nasty undercurrent that needs dealing with - by guess who - the government. Boot camp for these little monsters perhaps.

Ben WRX Bug-Eye

Yes mate, I'd love to sort out some of these little terror's roaming around, but don't really want to run the risk of getting arrested due to dealing with their out of line behaviour.

s-man

Bubba - cheers

Dave - LOL...yup, we are.

And...NO I don't - because as I read it, many seem to be trying to suggest that teachers being unable to deal with these situations is the cause of the problem - and it aint! It's also not down to sissy NL, the PC brigade, tree huggers, immigrants or any other of the candidates so readily trotted out on here.

So, you tell me: who does that leave?

I maintain that teachers jobs would be made more tolerable by getting the support and backing from parents BEFORE trouble occurs than it will via legal changes to the rules on the methods they are allowed to use AFTER a problem has arisen.

Lets face it - its not much consolation knowing you are 'allowed' to restrain someone if you also know that their dad/uncle whatever will be down to abuse you and give you a pasting regardless.

mart360

we would do if we wernt so hamstrung by the pc jackbooted visionarys loosely called NL,,

and what new nuggets are unfolding now! turns out the gril who did it is the daughter of a somalian asylum seeker...

this makes it dead easy.. bye bye!! application denied..


but you can see it coming, "asylum seekers daughter in desperate plea for help" style banner reporting.. she only did this a a cry for help type crap..

if this is the standard of behavior from applicants then we dont want them simple as that!

M

s-man

Ben - cheers for the sentiment...

You are missing my point a bit though. No, the girls parents should not do that - as tempting as I'm sure it would be. It's too late in their case sadly...the damage has already been done and more damage, whilst cathartic and arguably justifiable, will not reverse whats happened to them.

Sure it falls to the legal system and ultimately, therefore, the government to mop up more effectively AFTER these horrific events take place but the only way of making fewer happen in the first place is if more kids are brought up - better.

I'm definitely no in favour of being soft on those guilty of the violent acts - I want to make that clear. I am simply stating that its useless and groundless to try and make scapegoats of the usual snet suspects in this case: NL, tree huggers etc. I think for some here its always much easier to point the finger at others than contemplate the real reasons which could be much closer to home.

Bubba po

My lad is seven years old. I don't see it as anyone else's responsibility to make him a decent member of society than myself and my wife's. It's not the Police's job to prevent him from doing crime as he gets older. I don't send him to school and say "Teacher, learn[sic] this kid to read". He already reads better than some of the school leavers at the hell-hole of a school I just quit as a Senior Science Technician.

During my tenure at this school I was offered violence, called a c*nt, a ****** and a nonce to my face, spat on twice, car vandalised twice, had personal property stolen... some of these acts were on a daily basis. Who do you think is responsible for their behaviour? It can't be anyone but the people and the society that brought them up! It's nonsensical to state that punishment is the solution. Properly brought up children don't need punishing to behave properly. It's stupid to imagine that mainstream schools can be run like borstals with Draconian punishments and teachers as likely to dish out kickings as often as homework. Teachers tend to be gentle academics, who feel they have a vocation to pass on knowledge, to nurture young minds; when it works it's the best feeling in the world. They are not interchangeable with the screws at Wormwood Scrubs.

mart360

prehaps not, but what happened to the term "in loco parentis"??

i went through several schooling systems, from grammar style to local comp,

guess which one worked best??

we had teachers who ruled with a rod of iron, it scared the poop put of us, and not many were brave enough to step out of line..

after seeing two classmates given 6 of the best by the deputyhead, (for bullying incidently) did they do it again no way, did anyone else jump to fill the void left by these aspiring characters. fat chance.

I recall being pulled up for using the f word,, fair enough, but it was after school and on the school grounds.. i got detention for a week, contrast that to the next body of learning, one happy camper brings in an airpistol and takes potshots at people in class, what happen to him.. sweet f. a.
A brief telling off and back to terrorising the rest of the class.

once again it comes down to a fine line between control and discipline.

agreed there were some teachers who were borderline psycotic, and any excuse to wield a slipper or ruler was turned into a a near death experiance for the unlucky recipient, however how many of us actually got corporal punishment, and how often did we get it. ?

i,ll post a poll should make interesting results..

somthing needs to be done, hand wringing and which hunting dont solve the problem, thats for sure

Mart

lubo

Totally agree that kids are the responsibility of their parents. Teachers shouldnt have to learn how to deal with aggression/restraint etc that is not their job. Children who abuse school rules should be excluded and any forms of violence dealt with by the police. Teachers are there to educate and inform not bring up children and no decent parent would want them to do this. The world is pc mad