Flatcapdriver

As I said earlier, they don't work particularly well in Western economies such as the US, UK or Australia. Come to think of it NZ has it's fair share of problems with the Maoris.

GaryK

Bang on I would say! Although from other posts I cant see how the tories are going to sort it all out *if* they get into power. They are just doing what any other shadow cabinet would do - push the buttons on sensitive topics to win votes, doesnt mean they *will* do it.

My 2p worth all day drinking wont *guarantee* worse behaviour just as all the small minded politicians predicted (wrongly) that when the all day opening laws were introduced things would get worse when the reality was very little changed. I think as someone mentioned its more 'cultural' now, many people cant go out without getting completely smashed and that is a big problem and even worse there are programs on Sky TY that even glamourise it as if its funny and clever!

One thing Kiwi I always had NZ down as a quiet and peaceful place, watched Ross kemp on gangs following the 'Mongrels' what a nasty bunch of people they are!

Gary

TheBigMan

Agreed - however this is because (in my opinion):

Natives are disgruntled, sick, tired and bored of the fact that there are huge numbers on non Britains in this country. Now, they are frustrated with the fact they have to watch what they say in fear of being accused of racism etc. This is NOT the faults of the minority, usually this is the fault of white, British people pushing the whole PC, do-gooder, non-discrimination bollox onto us.

We therefore associate the non-whites as the problem - and become racist.

Political correctness and do-gooder attitudes are therefore fuelling the racist fire.

KiwiGTI

Oddly I don't think I can recall any real problems between the Maori and the Pakeha (in modern times). It is actually a very good relationship.

There are land claims and things like that but there is certainly no real hatred.

If there are problems it's more to do with Maoris perhaps being in the lower socioeconomic groups etc, defnitely not racial.

However, put a Tongan, Samoan, Maori and a Somalian in a room and see what happens

TheBigMan

Let's cut the **** eh.

Bring back "love they neighbour", let us poke fun (and have fun poked at us) for the colour of skin.

Black is black, it is different to white, as it is brown. Why can't we all chill the f$ck out??!???

I don't give a **** if someone calls me honky in jest, likewise I'll call my black mates slaves and tell them to polish my shoes.

It's just banter and it's a damn good laugh!!!!!

KiwiGTI

I saw that too and believe me those are the good guys. The "real" gang members are much worse than that and literally are scum. Problem is they are all 6"+, built like tanks and don't feel pain so they are even more intimidating than the camera shows.

But in reality normal people would never cross paths with them.

DonnieDarko

Unfortuantely the "breeding rate" of chavs is accelerating, while that of the rest of us is declining.

"Ve must do something to stop this! they are destroying our gene-pool"

-> who knows something may happen to change all this, and after world war III the US will give the chavs their own country to live in (may as well just kick the palastinans out of the gaza strip again)

but seriously, i am really pretty depressed about the state of our country, particularly our poor business presence vs the rest of the world, in light of our now global economy.

my prediction is that within 5-10 years we will be part of the "new third world". China etc will be the new "first world"

Flatcapdriver

This post is a great example of atypical British negativity. What poor business presence are you referring to? The last time I looked BP, Vodafone, Shell, HSBC to name a few were vast companies with an international presence. I mean, look at BP's market capitalisation - its somewhere around £120 billion and you view that as depressing? What about Vodafone? If they continue their exponential growth there won't be a lot out there in the telecoms market that they don't own and these companies are underpinned by thousands of smaller British companies that trade and export worldwide. Open your eyes a bit instead of viewing the world through a half empty glass.

warrenm2

the uk is the worlds 4th largest economy (US, Japan and germany being the top 3)

DonnieDarko

Sorry i'd forgotten that the "Hong kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation" was a great british bank, although they did buy up midland bank over 10 years ago (who were british)

Vivendi (USA) own vodafone anyway.

Equally our Car manufacturers TVR (now russian) Lotus (Malaysia) Rover/Mg (Dead) Mini (german) are going great guns...

With BP & Shell you are correct, but we are now reaching a period that costing in discovering new oil sites are greater than that gained from exploiting them, i.e. oil companies will be in few a shock in the next 10-20 years
quarter-full glass, anyone?

Flatcapdriver

Strewth, you are ill informed. No wonder you have such a negative view of the world if you can't be bothered to garner a few salient facts before you go off on one.

Vodafone is a publicly quoted company which comprises around 5 - 10% of the FTSE and most certainly is not owned by Vivendi whereas in actual fact it is trying to buy Vivendi's telecoms arm. HSBC is again listed on the FTSE as well as the Hang Seng and has offices in the UK for donkey's years.

No doubt you could find something derogatory to say about BAE, Barclays, Anglo American, Cadbury Schweppes, Cable & Wireless, Gallaher, GKN, GSK or Hanson or Johnson Matthey which are major players on the international stage but no doubt you would like to stay in your perpetual state of gloom.

Ben WRX Bug-Eye

I think this is a fair commet.

The chinese economy is growing at a tredmedous rate and they have invested heavily in infrastructre. They also have national pride and are hungry for success.

This country on the other hand is in self destruct mode. Obessed with pandering to minority groups and so on (it's all been said above).

We may have some powerful international companies trading on the FTSE and registered as British firms, but how does that alter anything at street level, which is what this post is about? We arn't investing in infrastructure, the foundations for future growth.

We have no real national pride anymore and certainly not good form to show it. Our education system is becoming a bit of a joke with everything being dumbed down to win votes off parents who actually think standards are improving etc. Loads of social problems due to immigration on a simply massive scale and binge drinking etc.

The chinese are prepared to very work hard, and known that hard work will bring success. A lot of the youth in this country seem in living in some sort of hip-hop limbo, thinking they can get money the 'easy way'. Just look at pop-idol etc - how many of them seem to have pinned their who lives on becoming the next Will Young or whatever.

I get the impression that people in this country generally look down on these other rapidly developing countries - thinking that we are just superior and it's that simple. Trust me... in a decade or two it will be them who look down on us, chucking at how we managed to 'ruin' what once was a great country.

KiwiGTI

Some of their infrastructure projects are no less than astonishing. When you look at Shanghai 20 ago and what it is today.

Ben WRX Bug-Eye

It's almost like looking into the future isn't it!

They had this issue where the South didn't have enough water, so what they did was build one of, if not the largest pipeline in the world to carry water from the North, hundreds and hundreds of miles down to the South. It's that type of action on a grand scale that takes my breath away.

With us, it's like the government has said - "Right, that's your lot infrastructure wise, not getting anymore, just have to make do".

scoobynutta555

some posts on here are the height of niavety. you're honestly comparing a communist country that has total authority over its people to an elected western G8 nation. To compare a geographical tiny nation with its infrastructure such as ours against one of the largest countries in the worlld is absurd. Especially so when that country has large virgin lands and a willingness to evict without compensation any unwilling landowners that dont agree with the latest project. I'll bet youd love Prescott to bulldoze your house for a new lane of the M25.

The UK a third world country in a decade, get real FFS. The Chinese economy could collapse tomorrow, not to mention political stability which is tenious to say the least.

Getting a bit fecked off with know-alls with rose tinted glasses of the past moaning about the state of the country. Why not **** off with the wealth youve had the opportunity to make in this country to china or NZ or wherever and do us all a favour.

KiwiGTI

Typical NL supporter, selfish and not prepared to make any sacrifices for his own country.

You've almost summed up the problem - The UK government is now too weak, ineffectual and can't get anything done apart from appease minorities.

And your comparison of geography is absurd too, should make it all the easier in the UK to get things done, it's a lot smaller.

scoobynutta555

Total and utter horse ****. "selfish and not prepared to make any sacrifices for his own country." You feckin gob****e. **** of to your 2 bit ****ty rock. WTF are you doing here if its so bad.

Government appeasing minorities and weak. What planet are you on. Oh I forget, the name of the NZ prime minister trips off the tongue. And governments are always voted to power with minority support?

You ignoramous.

KiwiGTI

As usual there has to be some uneducated arsewipe that has nothing to contribute but abuse.

I really have to ask what planet you are on?

Minority Support - New Labour
Appeasing minorities - New Labour

In the UK people are entitled to free speech and that includes complaining, otherwise nothing will ever change you pathetic little turd.

Flatcapdriver

You lot talk about China as if its emergence on the world stage is a recent event when if you look carefully at it you will realise that two hundred years ago China was one of the largest economies in the world and one of the reasons then, as it is now, is that international companies (from the UK and others) invest heavily there. They also have an abundance of cheap labour and when I say cheap we are talking about less than £1.00 per day which makes it very easy to build an economy when the costs are low which is why their economy is larger than the UK's.

They are British firms that trade here. Why is there a determination to pour doubt on that fact by insinuating that they are 'just' registered here when others are keen to point out that some car companies are foreign owned? The simple fact of the matter is that these British firms are doing very well out of China and will do so in the future especially when the last vestiges of communism are thrown off and a genuine capitalist economy is created.

We do invest in infrastructure in the UK with projects such as the Olympics and the M25 widening but that statement will probably attract the neggies who will pipe up with the usual crap about the South but there is also a limit to which the electorate will pay for infrastructure through taxation.

If the British education system is so bad why are there thousands of students, many of them Chinese (that great paragon of brilliance that is everything the UK is not ) studying or planning to study in the UK. Do you honestly think that thousands of Chinese students suddenly wake up one day and decide to study over here because the level of education is crap when they could study at home because its simply brilliant there?

The only problem with immigration stems from idiots who think its a bad thing and can't get passed their determined Eeyore blinkered attitudes and realise that most Western economies are reliant on immigrants to replace their top heavy demographics and pay for our pensions.

scoobynutta555

Uneducated arsewipe? Hmmm guess I used the full potential of my Thatcher education and scraped a degree 11 years ago in business and politics. Sod off to China and start complaining about their regime and see where your attitude gets you.

How can a governmet that has won 3 landslide general elections, the last one being in May, have minority support? Appeasing minorities? What are you some kind of BNP wannabe? This government is accused of trying to appease everybody at the same time in order to be re-elected, not minotity groups.

As I said, lose yourself to that great economic and cultural success story that is NZ if you're so unhappy with this country and it's direction.

unclebuck

At the last general election (7th June 2001) Labour had a majority of 166, excluding the Speaker:

Con 166 (+1); Lab 412 (+ Speaker) (-6); LibD 52 (+6); SNP 5 (-1); PC 4 (n/c); UUP 6 (-4); DUP 5 (+3); SF 4 (+2); SDLP 3 (n/c); Independent 1 (-1)

At the election this year, Labour had a majority of 65, including the Staffordshire South and Cheadle results:

Con 198 (+32); Lab 355 (-57); LibD 62 (+10); SNP 6 (+1); PC 3 (-1);
DUP 9 (+4); SF 5 (+1); SDLP 3 (n/c); UUP 1 (-5); Speaker 1 (-); Respect 1 (+1); IKHHC 1 (-); Independent 1 (+1)
Turnout: 61.3% (+1.9)

Not exactly a 'landslide' then either time. Looks like the Tories did rather better than they get credit for.

Just quoting the facts.

KiwiGTI

A degree in politics and business isn't worth the paper it's written on. And it hasn't done much for your spelling or grammar.

A winning government can easily have minority support, it depends on how the votes are counted and classified. You should know that with your degree.

Anyway I'm not prepared to continue this intellectual battle with an unarmed man whose pinnacle of achievement in life has been to establish an address in Luton.

scoobynutta555

Roll on the quote about the Tories getting more votes in England than labour in May

Mugabe in Zimbabwe is an excellent example of a government winning with minority support.

I'll doubt that you'll not continue "this intellectual battle" as your head is so far up your **** you choke everytime you sneeze. In any case you may be armed, but blanks usually make a lot of noise but have no damaging effect, just like you really. You still haven't told me why if its so bad over here you've enjoyed several years living here.

Luton? Lovely place if you're in the right area just like anywhere. In any case, I have three addresses in Luton and one in Tipperary. How many houses do you own?

And Buck, thought you'd pop your head up. Look at those figures, that's a resounding whalloping win for Labour in anybodies books. Okay, technically it's one landslide and two resounding victories. FWIW I'd vote Tory if there were decent policies and a strong leader.

warrenm2

Just for you then!

Conservative vote: 8,086,306 - seats won: 193
Labour vote: 8,028,242 - seats won: 286


To put things in perspective..

"In 1992 the Conservatives under John Major outpolled Labour by 7.6 percentage points but got an overall majority of only 21. [In 2001], by contrast, although Tony Blair did only a little better than John Major, leading the Conservatives by 9.3 points, he won a majority of 167." —The Economist, April 8th 2005


Hmmmmm

KiwiGTI

You really are stupid aren't you.

Because Britain is a great country, no other country has contributed as much to the world and no other country has such a fine and coloured history.

The problem I have is that modern chavs and the like are destroying the great things about this country.

Seriuously, WTF is your problem? I don't like crime, falling standards, rudeness, benefit bludgers, disrespect, dishonesty, laziness, immigrants abusing their welcome and political correctness.

You obviously don't give a ****, have no pride and don't want to improve things.

scoobynutta555

Quite.

I don't like any of the things you have mentioned, but they aren't new things. Crime hasn't appeared in the past 30 years neither have any of the things in your list. Your list has been around for ages and ages. It's people with rose tinted glasses like you that think things have always been better, they haven't.

Now give notice to your landlord and go and sort your own country out. Feckin immigrants.

Leslie

KiwiGTI,

Fair enough that you are over here for the reasons you gave, only just seen your reply.

It must have been a bit of a cultural shock to arrive here after the ideas you got from your grandparents. The 50's 60's and 70's were quite good years to live here, attitudes were totally different and people even felt they could trust the political leaders of the day, a lot more that we mostly feel now anyway. In those days any person in political life who transgressed the realms of decency would not last very long before he was eased out of office. Bit different now isn't it, Sod the morals, can't be sacked if you are caught at it or shown to be grossly incompetent and when you are caught out badly if you are a mate of Billy's you can expect to be back in office again before long, and lets make as much cash while we have the chance! No need to take any notice of public opinion until voting time comes around and then the pretence can all begin again for a while.

I was interested why you were here when I would give my right arm to be able to live in New Zealand.

I understand why you feel as you do about these creeps in charge at the moment.

Les

KiwiGTI

So what's wrong with having an ideal to strive to?

scoobynutta555

Nothing. But an ideal is just that, an ideal.

Ben WRX Bug-Eye

Things are obviously getting worse! No need to elaborate on that because the vast majority of people have already managed to work this out.

Too many 'I’m alright Jack so couldn’t care less about you' types around – something else that’s bringing the country down.

Also there is no possibility of China’s economy collapsing anytime soon. Chinese come to study here because they want to learn English and have a different view of England than the reality. That will change over time though when the rest of world starts to realise that this country is quite frankly going to the dogs. No problems with immigrants beyond the 'idiots'? Not heard about the Birmingham riots this week – that’s just a very small taster of what's to come. Why do you think so many indigenous people are emigrating and taking their money with them – it’s not because things are getting better here that’s for sure!

It’s the New Labour die-hards who are wearing those bloody rose-tinted glasses it seems.