P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

David, make that 3 please

scoobylav

I wasn't going to enter into this pointless argument but reading some threads I feel I need to.

For what it is worth I was not at Elvington last weekend so therefore I will NOT comment on the rights and wrongs of people running.

However I have seen Andy run on numerous occassions in different conditions and do not for a second doubt his ability (as a "grown man" ) to make a decision as to whether he should run or not.

I see Andy has said he is contemplating a cage. Good for him a personal choice. Do not try and impose rules on everyone.

Remember Motorsport is dangerous and accidents can and will happen. If you don't like this fact DO NOT take part. If you do decide to run the 1/4 mile or do track days you have to be prepared for every eventuality that could arise. When you have got to grips with this concept you can then decide if you need / want safety devices fitted to your vehicle to protect yourself.

Regarding responsibility of the organisers I think it is a recognised fact, where you don't sign a disclaimer, that the organisers still accept NO responsibilty for the decisions YOU make whilst there.

Rant over Chill out guys and keep racing

David_Wallis

ffs How many times

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Must be more 10 second cars out there than we thought

Moley

iTrader: (9)

One point....i am pretty sure that the ratio of cars which have an accident on the drag strig is a lot less than how many have an accident on the road.

Andy.F

I don't agree thats it's a pointless arguement.

I don't have any gripe about Sundays meeting or the organisation of it, I'm thinking ahead to events such as totb which are run to similar...er regulations.

My concern is that whilst we all currently enjoy RWYB's freedom from red tape, the cars are getting faster and faster without any form of regulation whatsoever.
At a recent drag race meeting one of the RWYB drivers commented that he "couldn't believe how slow some proper drag race cars were"
It was really a case of the RWYB cars having made such performance advances in recent years.

Without intending to sound like Harveys "new Labour" should we not be looking at some form of control before it goes the same way as Group B rallying for example...banned.

I for one loved watching those group B cars....but.... they went too fast and crashed bad so they were banned ! If there had been some slightly tighter controls then perhaps we could have still had...say...500bhp cars instead of the current 300ish limit imposed by restrictors.

I'm quite happy to look after my own safety considerations, I know the risks I run and accept them.

The big question is, do you know the risks the guy in the other lane is prepared to take ?

I'm not saying everyone should have cages and plumbed in extinguishers but there needs to be a line drawn....somewhere.... as to what constitutes a completely unregulated RWYB car.....All IMHO !

Andy

R19KET

I think Steven's suggestion of SUB 11 SECOND CARS being caged for safety, is getting taken out of context.

Currently, this would effect FIVE cars in the country, with a couple knocking on the door, and maybe if we're lucky, another handful next year !!!!!

Of the five,

Halldor/RCM has a cage,
Andy is now looking into a cage.
Paul " " "
Mikee " " "
I am finally getting around to transferring over to my caged car.

Those likely to get sub 11 (that I'm aware of):

David Wallis, looking to cage his car.
RCM's own car is caged.
Steven Darley, looking to cage his car.

With regard to cages being so intrusive, as to render a car no longer usable "day to day", well I'm sure that a suitable 8 point "bolt in" cage, with a removable rear section, and door bars, could be put together by any of the reputable cage manufacturers.

If you accept this statement as true, then surely Common sense tells you fitting a cage is a sensible, as is wearing a crash helmet, or are out protectors from the nanny state, going to tell us that helmets, and seat belts should also be worn by choice ?

Mark. editted to sort dodgy text !

Andy.F

You think not, how can you be so sure ?

chiark

If nothing else, the thread has served a purpose to heighten the fact that this game is dangerous... If someone finds it funny, that's great. One thing that does seem a good idea is to restrict the track to "one car at a time" when conditions deteriorate.

Again, I suppose people can make their own minds up as to whether this is appropriate or not, but when there's testosterone involved I know I'd go up against someone if I had a car that I thought was going to be worth a run . Sanity at a time like that is not my strong point, and I'm probably not alone

davyboy

Oppps, Clare still logged in.

Because there is no talk of it........surely you'd get an inkling if something was going to get banned?

It's now a business for people, and if people turn up, crash there cars and walk away then no one will complain......only if fatalities increases, then we might have a problem.

Dave

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

David, add me to the list of potentially interested cage buyers...I'm going to need to stiffen up my car's poor old shell...and if I want to take part in any MSA Sprints or Hillclimbs at some point I'll have to have one fitted anyway...

BTW, my car is unlikely to be a sub 11 second car in it's current form, but there's no harm in being prepared! IT's also not a daily driver anymore, and there is no way I'd even consider fitting one of those toy cages that came in on a load of imported RA's...

Andy.F

I actually removed one of those from my car !

ex-webby

Mmmmmmm....... I wonder!





Regards,
Shaun.

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Wheres your fluffy dice Shaun??

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Why would I need to have been there to have views on the organisers?

FACT: The conditions were very bad.
FACT: They watched a number of cars spin and continued to let it happen. FACT: This resulted in Andy/Mikee have a very close shave.
FACT: This wouldn't have happened at Pod/Avon

I wonder if the organisers would do anything differently with the benefit of hindsight??

I have never seen a car spin or crash at Pod or Avon. That's in over 10 events I have attended this summer. There is far quicker machinery running at these events than Elvington (from what I can gauge).

RE: Roll Cages - I see no problem with RWYB being regulated if it means it will be safer.


Bob

Andy.F

Shaun, wouldn't your head be hard enough to absorb any impact

ex-webby

Right next to the Magic Tree!

ex-webby

I suspect so..... no sense, no feeling!

It's not my head i'm concerned about...... but if I EVER bust one of my finger nails!!!!

David_Wallis

Id upload some pics of the cage in question, but I dont suppose this is the relevant thread!

Andy.F

Prob not.

That looked an excellent cage though David, as does the one Shaun posted.

New thread in tech ?

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Yup

A5HYV

I Must say after reading this thread it does make you think! Glad to hear Andy F was okay. I were just behind him on the start grid and did see how the car just took off.

Got to say though i did run all day with many of our customers in their cars who mainly have 12 second Subarus and in the morning the strip was very slippy and the standing water towards the quater mile mark was pretty scary even when doing 110 terminal speeds.

Cars like Andy-F, Mikee and Pavlo deserve huge respect to have a go in these conditions with their Qtr mile and Terminal speeds. I know many people say that these guys should not have run but when you are there after so much setting up and crowds eager to see them go, then its hard to say no. It is down to the each individual to asses the event, conditions, weather, vehicle setup and make that crucial decision.

I did witness most of andys early runs and got to say the car was spinning in every gear, weaving side to side as he tried to keep it in a straight line. Must of been a Brown trouser moment as all of us were braking way before the Qtr mile marker.

Anyway everyone is talking about the conditions, the Organisation error, Roll cages for Safety, etc. to prevent future incidents happening again.
I must put the point accross that the Many of the Big power 10 second cars do have a big disadvantage against lesser everyday RWYB cars in conditions like these is the choice of Tyres Used. Andy-F and many others were using Mickey Thomson Drag tyres which are like ice skates in the wet and offer very little water displacement.

Factors like Vehicle setup, choice of tyres and Power must be taken into consideration when letting it loose on the Strip. I dont agree with that the decision should be totally left to the Orgainsers.

Anyway i know my input means Nothing but its just a thought.

Glad your Okay andy and looking forward to see again at Elvington. Without cars like yourselves running it would not be a Crowd Puller as what RWYB event are now.

Thanks
Ash

Andy.F

I bet you're glad you changed lanes now Ash and lined up behind me instead of alongside !

Andy

A5HYV

Well, I could say i was lucky!

But i would of been 2-3 seconds behind you anyway so you would of missed me by miles. Probably would of got Ringside view though like Mikee. Sounds like it scared him more than you!

Ash

mikeesingh

iTrader: (3)

im fine now

have decided on a few things

1. fit roll cage for next year, ive had one sat at work for 2 years, never got round to fitting it.
2. dont race at elvington if theres standing water on strip.
3. invest in some driving lessons, so i can control car if im in the similar situation, i think it pure luck that i avoided andy's car.
4. NEVER go head to head with andy again

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Nice one Micky

Steven

ps Sorry Mikee

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

So much debate...

IMO, cars that take part in track days, should have a mich higher requirement for a roll cage, than any car taking part in a 1/4 mile event. The risks of a crash there are mich higher.

But then, that would rule out about 80% of track day entrants. In the interests of safety, is that going to happen ?

1/4 mile racing carries risks. Thats fact. But how far do you go implementing safety features ? its a lot safer than most forms of motorsport IMO
As safety features go, a fire extinguisher system would be much higher on my priorities than a roll cage.

A roll cage would offer protection in a crash, no doubt. But as many have said, in a road car without helmets, they could pose a massive risk to safety.

So whats it to be ?? road car you can run at RWYB events, and use and enjoy on the roads, or a race only car with roll cage, dedicated to 1/4 mile stuff etc.

The simple fact of the matter is, the cars should not have run in those weather conditions, and with those tyres.

Would any of you even consider doing such things on a public road, even at legal speeds ?

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

As for driving lessons. I dont know if anyone will agree. But in those weather conditions, and with slick tyres. Once the car starts aquaplaning, I dont think any driver is going to be able to re-gain control.

its all down to luck, with maybe about 1% skill

Not saying driving lessons are a bad idea, by any means though.

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

Stevie, Mikee was running standard 215/40/17 Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3 tyres...allbeit a tad well used on the front from his own admission, but they would have been shifting water far better than Andy's Micky T's

MickWrx

Personal choice unless its policy/Law. Given this each to there own applies plain and simple any one can cristisize anyone who's judgment does not match your own, and both parties can argue there corner, but as above personal choice hey!!

Andy has anyone got footage of the spin to its conclusion, be a shame not have footage or pics of the full scary ride.

Good to see you got out of that ok Andy, shame about the car but metal can be mended or replaced.