ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

In car footage would be pretty cool

bigsinky

sorry am i missing summat here? Trevor and the straightliners peoples put on RWYB event for our benefit. do you all not have to sign a disclaimer stating you have read and will comply with the rules that are laid down by the straightliner guys. who forced to sign the declaration. you are all big boys, who can take responsibility for thier personal safety. i personally thought andy, pavlo, mikee, kev et al were mad going up the track in the rain. it might be ok for the other RWYB cars but these are not ordinary cars anymore. you pays your money YOU take the risk.

As for duty of care on behalf of the straightliners people, they state that motorsports are dangerous and you acknowlwdge the risk.

cheers

big sinky

Andy.F

As previously mentioned Sinky, I have no problems looking after myself and accepting the risks but what about the guy I run alongside, he's forced to run the risk that I take him out. Problem is, he is unaware of how big a risk I'm taking. Who controls that ?

ps was that you in the Holden ?

bigsinky

ok see your point. spoke to mikee afterwards and he was a real pasty colour. scared the ****e outta him.

yes the holden is micheals new car. great car which i think generated a bit of interest. had some chinese boy over taking a load of photos. he said that he needed the shots for a new computer game that his company was writing. i was due to run in my car on sunday but had what we think was a faulty map sensor on thursday nights mapping session and we couldn't get one delivered and installed on time. think providence may have had a hand there.

Andy.F

Very nice motor that must be a morning shot, it's dry !

Thanks for the reminder of how straight my car used to be

bigsinky

no probs, hope you get it sorted for next year ya mad bastid

Andy.F

bigsinky

can just see the headlines. Forrest family now have 50% share in T-Cut

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

PMSL, nice one Neil. Ithad to be Michaels car, its black FFS

harvey

iTrader: (48)

If cars were going on their roofs I would understand the need for roll cages. As nobody has come up with any car going on its roof I do not understand why a roll cage would be a priority to anybody but that is their personal choice.
A roll cage makes a car completely impractical for daily transport and a roll cage is only safe and effective if it is accompanied by a four point harness and racing seat.
If it is left to personal choice, who cares, live and let live. I hope I am wrong but I would not be surprised if there was some sort of movement making roll cages mandatory for the next Scooby Shootout or even an attempt to impose them for TOTB. To my mind that would be retrograde. As responsible adults we can all assess the various dangers, including the likelihood of turning turtle and act in accordance with our own feeling.

grpbrallyfan

iTrader: (1)

Hi andy,

I saw this at the JapFest Finale at santa pod, so I'm glad to see that you're alright, remeber thinking what a cool car it was with the c/f boot. Was your trailer parked next to the drifting arena, if so, sorry about standing on it to get fotos!!

again, glad to see that you're all ok, ill look out for the scooby soon!

James

Carl2

Just because none have ended up on their roofs yet, doesn't mean it can't happen or even won't happen at some point in the future. On the concrete it's unlikely to happen, but....... I don't know what speed Andy entered the field at, but had he entered it sideways (assuming he wasn't, didn't quite see from where I was) he could very easily have dug in and rolled several times. Don't forget cars like Andys have a good chance of not stopping on the hard top due to their high speed.
Also they do top speed runs, imagine losing it somewhere in the distance where there isn't the massive run off area that there is down by the 1/4mile strip.

john banks

A few papers on rollover crashes are linked, from which I learned a lot by reading, although I'm not sure it gives a clear answer! Centre of gravity relative to track is important in determining risk of rollover - I think the Subaru would be quite good here. Both papers mention roll cages, really based on some old studies Chevrolet did with rolling over Malibus with belted or unbelted occupants at relatively low speeds with or without roll cages. I was surprised to note that the testing done showed no reduction in dummy injury on the caged cars, although the benefits from restraint are obvious. However, the limitations of the studies in repeatability and dummy realism were noted.

They do highlight the relative rarity of rollovers, the higher speeds usually involved, and the disproportionate share of injuries, especially if ejection occurs. Rollovers involve the most complex sequence of movements and the crash forces occur typically over several seconds rather than a fraction of a second in a planar crash. Collision of the head with the roof is most common (padding is also important - relevant to stripped cars), and the head is most responsible for the severity of the injuries, but the vertical speeds involved are relatively low.

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd.../05-0417-W.pdf

http://fdncenter.org/grantmaker/santos/rcsr.pdf

ZEN Performance

Why does everyone feel the need to justify a cage purely from a rollover point of view? There are many benefits to having some form of cage or other structure, despite the obvious downsides that have been mentioned.

If Andy had come round and broadsided Mikee, I think Mikee would be thankfull for a cage with side bars etc.

David_Wallis

could sell the strut braces to help fund it for a start

911

Just caught-up with this news.
1
That track should not have run with standing water there, but that is up to you to run or not at a RYB event.(and to walk the track first)
2
Roll cages are now mandatory in my hill climbing class (Road Going Modified) for National A Championships. This was done because we are so fast!

I have seen many cars go onto their 'tops' with and without cages, and have seen air ambulances arrive too...
If you want to race hard and fast in MSA events you will need a cage for your own good. Trick is to use them to stiffen the shell as Pavlo says.
3
I have a safety Devices 6 point in my Sti v3. It is now a 3 seater due to the fixed rear cross-brace. You can get the same cage with a bolt-in brace so the car becomes a 4 seater again. You loose some comfort, you gain some weight, you get a higher C of G but you race with a greater degree of confidence too.

In all of this Motorsport is dangerous.
Harvey is dead right, it is our chioce.
Chavs revelling over crashes is normal, just look at the coverage of WRC, crash after crash in the headers..people love it! but not everyone walks away as shown in Wales.

I have been in a head-on with a tree at Shelsley Walsh hill climb in my 911, and the roll cage split my crash helmet, but saved the shell! (and it was padded)

Andy is a well seasoned warrior in motorsport, he will be fine, and I along with you all wish him a quick recovery to a front running combination.

Pleanty of time to rebuild (and improve the car further!)

Graham.

Dream Weaver

I dont want to get too involved in this, and firstly glad you are OK Andy.

I'm fitting a cage into my 205 soon, and we had a huge thread similar to this on the 205 forum (but with less name calling ).

We ended up with a 50/50 split as to whether a road car should have a cage fitted, the main argument being that having a cage without a proper racing seat/harnesses/helmets would be dangerous in a RTA - banging head on cage etc etc

If you ask any racing expert, or weekend racer they always advise against fitting a cage into a road car, though the rally drivers are not as worried.

It does concern me that the experts advise against it though, but i'm still fitting one, just a rear for now as my car is mostly used on track.

911

For me (a weekend racer) I had no choice but to fit a cage if I wanted to race.
Further, my wife insisted that both my race cars have cages...
There is no argument here, just conversation.

A new Subaru has a cage already in it in its shell design, but after you have actually been in a motorsport shunt, a cage is mandatory.

As to your 205, the last 'biggy' we had at the hill climb was a neat 205 fully caged/multipoint/welded in job and the car withstood a very heavy front crunch really well.

The choice is yours!

Graham.

Dream Weaver

Very true

I'm having a cage mainly cos i'm quite big and would feel better in such a small car knowing I was protected in a roll.

One of the 205 lads rolled his 205 turbo on a stretch of road, doctors said his cage saved his life.

gazza19800sti1

same here andy ,hope you ok mate , not having best of bloody luck are you mate !!!!!! ... this guy never gives up and always has bad luck wi his own car,,,, thought i had ****ty luck think this guy gets thirty times more than me or anyone on here. i might be wrong but its what i see and here ..... andy keep going think i speak for alot of people i hope ,,,you will get there mate .......gaz

gazza19800sti1

the only other thing i can think of to say is maybe roll cages should be fitted to the faster car but then again wouldnt this be slowing them down????? and giving the slightly slower cars a advantage ????? maybe all cars raced should be fitted wi cages ?????????? we all spend 30k plus on these cars (estimate) loads spend more........why not stop risking our lives over goin so fast for maybe 2 tenths of a second ????? and any cage is better when upside down than none really ... but then again i dont know how much these cost so dont have a go at me i havent got one but hope to eventually , insurance is a pig wi a cage init???? gaz

Andy.F

Cheers Gaz however I'm a great believer that you make your own bad luck in this game.

I've been breaking drivetrain parts because there are no proven solutions for the power level I'm running.

I crashed the car because I was daft enough to run semi slicks through puddles !

The main thing for me is that the engine has been very reliable and produced good power throughout, most of the other high power scoobs have had to have numerous major rebuilds this year.

The panel damage to my car at this event will cost in the region of £1k to repair, the driveshafts/diff shafts I have broken in the past maybe another £500

Looking at the 'big picture' of the records the car has achieved this year and its engine reliability I don't feel too hard done by regards 'luck'

Andy

911

Gazza: A roll cage is about £600 and will take a max of a day to fit (DIY) but you do need good welding skills to DIY-it
A cage weighs about 30Kg (simple 6 point) and will soon become mandatory in MSA controlled events, which RWYB meets are not (?)

Andy, good luck, and your achievments are revered by many!

ps May need a remap early next year.(cat doing back-on)

Graham.