p1 vs sti8
14 November 2005, 10:09 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by TonyBurns
The 22B is the most iconic classic, the best.... definately not the P1, your probably looking at a type RA as being the best, the 22B is flawed but people love it because it is flawed, the P1 never really made the expectations people wanted from it..... sad but true.
As for the MY03/04/05 STi's as there is no such thing as an STi 8, tuned, they are better than classics, they can take more out of the box, especially when it comes to torque, which is what you want over bhp
plus ok, they are a little less raw, but people dont want an everyday car thats too raw, it gets tiring 
P1=good but not the best
STI Type Uk=better, smoother and easier to live with
Tony
As for the MY03/04/05 STi's as there is no such thing as an STi 8, tuned, they are better than classics, they can take more out of the box, especially when it comes to torque, which is what you want over bhp
plus ok, they are a little less raw, but people dont want an everyday car thats too raw, it gets tiring P1=good but not the best
STI Type Uk=better, smoother and easier to live with
Tony
Being a bit **** there on the STi8 MY04/5 ..... everyone knows the first huge scoop newage as the STi8 so that's why I was referring to it.
22b may be the best looking but there were only 16 UK cars ... the rest are imports. You'd be a brave man to buy an imported 22b and then run it as your everyday car. Hence the P1 (IMO) being better. People will always slate special edition imprezas but the P1 looked like a beefed up type r ... and it was a UK Impreza with a UK warranty. Subaru gave us what the japs had, but with the benefits of the UK classics.
We can go for ages about the Type RAs and 22bs but the fact of the matter is they are Jap motors and the guy has asked which is better STi8 or P1. And I maintain that the P1 was and still is a better all round car. Sti8 can be replicated by putting an STi badge and a big spoiler on a standard WRX ... P1 could never be imitated! 7-8 years on it still looks better than the newages and has a lot more road presence.
We can't start bringing the modified argument into this either. Yeh you can go and PPP and then ecutek your newage STi's till your blue in the face, but your warranty will mean ****.
Out of the box the P1 is still a better car, has the looks, the performance, the toys and the general road presence that the newages lack.
A three door 380-400bhp animal is what they should build today. The cars being thrown out of the factory now are more suited to the polishing, stay in the slow lane at 50mph brigade and not the petrolheads who want something that is quick enough to leave your heart pounding.
P1
14 November 2005, 10:24 AM
#32
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Had a P1 great car
brought a Evo VIII FQ300 regreted ever selling the P1, P1 much more of a drivers car and unmodded is superb (bar a decent 4wla and droplinks).
Didnt get on with the STI 8 (Feels heavy) now have a STI 8 Spec C which is awesome its has all the good bits from the Evo and P1 in one package.
If I had the Money I would still buy a Mint P1 over the 22B as for day to day on UK roads its a fantastic package even if it hasnt got the kudos off a 22b.
However I must say I looked at lots before I purchased a P1 and they dont wear well and many have been abused and poorly modded. Plus mileage 60k circa your being looking at a engine rebuild it seems.
brought a Evo VIII FQ300 regreted ever selling the P1, P1 much more of a drivers car and unmodded is superb (bar a decent 4wla and droplinks).
Didnt get on with the STI 8 (Feels heavy) now have a STI 8 Spec C which is awesome its has all the good bits from the Evo and P1 in one package.
If I had the Money I would still buy a Mint P1 over the 22B as for day to day on UK roads its a fantastic package even if it hasnt got the kudos off a 22b.
However I must say I looked at lots before I purchased a P1 and they dont wear well and many have been abused and poorly modded. Plus mileage 60k circa your being looking at a engine rebuild it seems.
14 November 2005, 10:29 AM
#33
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if I was going to stick with subarus my next car would be a P1 with a mint interior and exterior which I would then spend £7k-£10k on completely re-building the engine to standard spec. New clutch etc etc etc. Having owned both a classic and now the newage I would rather spend my modification cash on having a P1 engine rebuilt. Absolutely love the damn things. Having had the serious power subaru now I know I could easily live with 282bhp P1 and be more than happy.
14 November 2005, 10:32 AM
#34
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Originally Posted by Gangsta Smurf
P1 is iconic ... the best subaru IMHO. Who cares which one is faster ... at the end of the day if you are racing one in a 350bhp Sti8 you won't be able to lose it ... period!!! Maybe a few extra car lengths on a straight but if you put a P1 and and STi8 in front of people that know nothing about subarus and ask them to choose one they will be choosing the P1.
I drive a 'glorified' STi8 so no-one can say I am being bias!
I drive a 'glorified' STi8 so no-one can say I am being bias!
14 November 2005, 11:07 AM
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Other bit of information running costs Focus Zetec, P1, Evo Viii, Spec C obviously Focus takes 10 secs more to go around Goodwood or CC :-)
Running per month costs consider servicing, tyres, Fixes, consumables not insurance/mot/tax. All cars maintained as per recommended servicing schedule plus extra oil changes pre track events.
P1 £111 per month
Evo £307 per month
Focus £18 per month
Spec C £108 per month (using specialist not main dealer)
Fuel Evo/Spec C similiar i.e best 22mpg, P1 best 27mpg, Best residuals
P1 insurance Spec C the cheapest. exempt Focus obviously
Interesting eh, Would expect servicing for STI 8 uk to be similiar to P1.
Running per month costs consider servicing, tyres, Fixes, consumables not insurance/mot/tax. All cars maintained as per recommended servicing schedule plus extra oil changes pre track events.
P1 £111 per month
Evo £307 per month
Focus £18 per month
Spec C £108 per month (using specialist not main dealer)
Fuel Evo/Spec C similiar i.e best 22mpg, P1 best 27mpg, Best residuals
P1 insurance Spec C the cheapest. exempt Focus obviously
Interesting eh, Would expect servicing for STI 8 uk to be similiar to P1.
14 November 2005, 11:25 AM
#36
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If i had 16k to 22k to buy a P1/sti8 i wouldnt bother
Instead i would but a Sti type R or Ra for say 8k to 11k and with the change i would turn the car into a 400bhp monster
with supporting safety brakes,suspension ect.....
Now there is not much that will keep up with that on the road classic/bugeye or newage
Instead i would but a Sti type R or Ra for say 8k to 11k and with the change i would turn the car into a 400bhp monster
with supporting safety brakes,suspension ect.....Now there is not much that will keep up with that on the road classic/bugeye or newage
14 November 2005, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Gangsta Smurf
Being a bit **** there on the STi8 MY04/5 ..... everyone knows the first huge scoop newage as the STi8 so that's why I was referring to it.
22b may be the best looking but there were only 16 UK cars ... the rest are imports. You'd be a brave man to buy an imported 22b and then run it as your everyday car. Hence the P1 (IMO) being better. People will always slate special edition imprezas but the P1 looked like a beefed up type r ... and it was a UK Impreza with a UK warranty. Subaru gave us what the japs had, but with the benefits of the UK classics.
We can go for ages about the Type RAs and 22bs but the fact of the matter is they are Jap motors and the guy has asked which is better STi8 or P1. And I maintain that the P1 was and still is a better all round car. Sti8 can be replicated by putting an STi badge and a big spoiler on a standard WRX ... P1 could never be imitated! 7-8 years on it still looks better than the newages and has a lot more road presence.
We can't start bringing the modified argument into this either. Yeh you can go and PPP and then ecutek your newage STi's till your blue in the face, but your warranty will mean ****.
Out of the box the P1 is still a better car, has the looks, the performance, the toys and the general road presence that the newages lack
22b may be the best looking but there were only 16 UK cars ... the rest are imports. You'd be a brave man to buy an imported 22b and then run it as your everyday car. Hence the P1 (IMO) being better. People will always slate special edition imprezas but the P1 looked like a beefed up type r ... and it was a UK Impreza with a UK warranty. Subaru gave us what the japs had, but with the benefits of the UK classics.
We can go for ages about the Type RAs and 22bs but the fact of the matter is they are Jap motors and the guy has asked which is better STi8 or P1. And I maintain that the P1 was and still is a better all round car. Sti8 can be replicated by putting an STi badge and a big spoiler on a standard WRX ... P1 could never be imitated! 7-8 years on it still looks better than the newages and has a lot more road presence.
We can't start bringing the modified argument into this either. Yeh you can go and PPP and then ecutek your newage STi's till your blue in the face, but your warranty will mean ****.
Out of the box the P1 is still a better car, has the looks, the performance, the toys and the general road presence that the newages lack
but out of the box, the MY02/03/04/05 and the smaller scooped 06 cars are better in every way You have a better clutch, gearbox, engine, brakes, stability (want me to continue?
) and as performance wasnt top of the list its not bad, especially with the PPP.They are easier to live with, the P1 isnt all singing and dancing, which was the point about which one to have, you lost a lot from the JDM cars to the P1, its more of a hybrid than anything else, no climate control (stripped out and replaced with normal aircon), no quick rack steering etc, only half of them have the rear 2 pots, the rest have the single pot rear brakes....
Then there is the ecu issue..... as its a JDM map, the issue with the engines going pop may (cant speculate unfortunately) be related.
So reallistically, your looking at a 6 year old car, 60k on average in mileage, though still good looking, still not the best, and dropping behind quite quickly now
Tony
PS, on the bonnet scoop issue, my car was the first year to have these fitted and its an MY03, or if you look at it in another way, an STi version 9
so it gets confusing when people use versions that no longer exist, otherwise id like to own one of the new STi version 12's that are now out 
14 November 2005, 02:06 PM
#39
Originally Posted by stormy
...However I must say I looked at lots before I purchased a P1 and they dont wear well and many have been abused and poorly modded. Plus mileage 60k circa your being looking at a engine rebuild it seems.
All Subaru Proven vehicles :
- Carry an extendable 12 month warranty.
- Receive a rigorous pre-sales inspection.
- Receive an Experian "Gold" Car Data Check, giving you the added reassurance that the vehicle has not been stolen, written off, or is subject to outstanding finance.
- Come with a Vehicle Mileage Check certificate.
- Include a 30 day / 1000 mile exchange commitment.
- Benefit from 12 months extendable home & roadside Subaru European Assistance.
- Are thoroughly roadtested prior to hand-over.
- Subaru Proven vehicles are less than 7 years old / 80,000 miles (whichever comes first)*.
* 7 years / 60,000 miles on Impreza P1 derivatives.
So they make a special point of restricting P1's to a maximum of 60,000 miles. That says it all to me. I wouldn't buy one now unless it has had a new gearbox and an engine rebuild.. Actually, scratch that, I would buy a two year old STi8 + PPP with a warranty for a couple of grand more.
Mark (who would like a Spec C)
Last edited by Wuss; 14 November 2005 at 02:11 PM.
14 November 2005, 02:32 PM
#40
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i am a P1 owner, but totally taking my P1 hat of.....................(honestly)
I took a PPP STI8 out for a test drive from the dealers about a year ago. my P1 was standard at that point so its a valid comparrison. black one, looked mean and moody. just as nice looking as the P1 but in a diferent way.
Not gonna talk about the practicalities/warranties/resale cos thats obvious. it understeered noticeably more than the P1. performance similiar (it was ppp'd though). A fair bit quiter and more comfortable than the P1, braking similiar to a P1 with the upgraded brakes but miles better than one with standard brakes.
its a great car but it misses something. its very sanitisied, characterless and not as involving to drive and ultamitely its boring compared to the P1.
P1 every time. a Spec C is a different matter altogether though!
I took a PPP STI8 out for a test drive from the dealers about a year ago. my P1 was standard at that point so its a valid comparrison. black one, looked mean and moody. just as nice looking as the P1 but in a diferent way.
Not gonna talk about the practicalities/warranties/resale cos thats obvious. it understeered noticeably more than the P1. performance similiar (it was ppp'd though). A fair bit quiter and more comfortable than the P1, braking similiar to a P1 with the upgraded brakes but miles better than one with standard brakes.
its a great car but it misses something. its very sanitisied, characterless and not as involving to drive and ultamitely its boring compared to the P1.
P1 every time. a Spec C is a different matter altogether though!
14 November 2005, 03:00 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by TonyBurns
Know where your coming from but out of the box, the MY02/03/04/05 and the smaller scooped 06 cars are better in every way
You have a better clutch, gearbox, engine, brakes, stability (want me to continue?) and as performance wasnt top of the list its not bad, especially with the PPP.
They are easier to live with, the P1 isnt all singing and dancing, which was the point about which one to have, you lost a lot from the JDM cars to the P1, its more of a hybrid than anything else, no climate control (stripped out and replaced with normal aircon), no quick rack steering etc, only half of them have the rear 2 pots, the rest have the single pot rear brakes....
Then there is the ecu issue..... as its a JDM map, the issue with the engines going pop may (cant speculate unfortunately) be related.
So reallistically, your looking at a 6 year old car, 60k on average in mileage, though still good looking, still not the best, and dropping behind quite quickly now
Tony
PS, on the bonnet scoop issue, my car was the first year to have these fitted and its an MY03, or if you look at it in another way, an STi version 9 so it gets confusing when people use versions that no longer exist, otherwise id like to own one of the new STi version 12's that are now out
but out of the box, the MY02/03/04/05 and the smaller scooped 06 cars are better in every way You have a better clutch, gearbox, engine, brakes, stability (want me to continue?
) and as performance wasnt top of the list its not bad, especially with the PPP.They are easier to live with, the P1 isnt all singing and dancing, which was the point about which one to have, you lost a lot from the JDM cars to the P1, its more of a hybrid than anything else, no climate control (stripped out and replaced with normal aircon), no quick rack steering etc, only half of them have the rear 2 pots, the rest have the single pot rear brakes....
Then there is the ecu issue..... as its a JDM map, the issue with the engines going pop may (cant speculate unfortunately) be related.
So reallistically, your looking at a 6 year old car, 60k on average in mileage, though still good looking, still not the best, and dropping behind quite quickly now
Tony
PS, on the bonnet scoop issue, my car was the first year to have these fitted and its an MY03, or if you look at it in another way, an STi version 9
so it gets confusing when people use versions that no longer exist, otherwise id like to own one of the new STi version 12's that are now out PMSL ... loving the numbers. Just glad subaru decided to call my car a WR1 and give it a gay blue rinse. I can say either of those and people know what car I have
14 November 2005, 03:32 PM
#42
I know that EVO magazine used to rate the P1 as the best impreza (at least they did 12 months ago). I also have a copy of Used Car Buyers impreza test, where they went through the complete range (again about 12 months ago), again the P1 was recommended as their choice.
I suppose the point I am coming to is that they are not impreza owners, so as such it is an independant view, by car journalists who drive a heck of a lot of cars. That IMO carries a lot of weight.
I suppose the point I am coming to is that they are not impreza owners, so as such it is an independant view, by car journalists who drive a heck of a lot of cars. That IMO carries a lot of weight.
14 November 2005, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Rasher
which meet mate??
The car was a credit to you, BTW.
14 November 2005, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Gangsta Smurf
PMSL ... loving the numbers. Just glad subaru decided to call my car a WR1 and give it a gay blue rinse. I can say either of those and people know what car I have
Tony
14 November 2005, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Scrappy9
I know that EVO magazine used to rate the P1 as the best impreza (at least they did 12 months ago). I also have a copy of Used Car Buyers impreza test, where they went through the complete range (again about 12 months ago), again the P1 was recommended as their choice.
I suppose the point I am coming to is that they are not impreza owners, so as such it is an independant view, by car journalists who drive a heck of a lot of cars. That IMO carries a lot of weight.
I suppose the point I am coming to is that they are not impreza owners, so as such it is an independant view, by car journalists who drive a heck of a lot of cars. That IMO carries a lot of weight.
but say the type 25 is better but not a factory car.Tony
14 November 2005, 04:01 PM
#47
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evo talk crap in a lot of things they say, just read the readers letters which highlught all their inconsistencies without them giving a viable explanation.
and as for all this JDM car bashing, what nonsense. I don't believe the P1 is any more susceptible to engine and gearbox failure than any other subaru of similar age.
The P1 was a massive marketing success but ultimate impreza it was not.
with age meaning most warranties are out of the window, buy the version 4 type rin the for sale section for 7500. That is a performance bargain!
and as for all this JDM car bashing, what nonsense. I don't believe the P1 is any more susceptible to engine and gearbox failure than any other subaru of similar age.
The P1 was a massive marketing success but ultimate impreza it was not.
with age meaning most warranties are out of the window, buy the version 4 type rin the for sale section for 7500. That is a performance bargain!
14 November 2005, 04:11 PM
#48
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"P1 every time"
Talking UK cars unmodded P1 versus STI 8 PPP. I agree simply more of a drivers car and it looks great. Out of the 4 scoobs Ive had still my favourite.
Just back of the Scooby Stelvio trip 2700 Miles in company with 13 evos and scoobies various versions. Terrys P1 all the kids would clap and stare in a amazement, STI 8. STI 9, Species not the same response. Same
when you parked up.
Talking UK cars unmodded P1 versus STI 8 PPP. I agree simply more of a drivers car and it looks great. Out of the 4 scoobs Ive had still my favourite.
Just back of the Scooby Stelvio trip 2700 Miles in company with 13 evos and scoobies various versions. Terrys P1 all the kids would clap and stare in a amazement, STI 8. STI 9, Species not the same response. Same
when you parked up.
14 November 2005, 04:40 PM
#49
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Tatton Park, earlier this year. You were at the SIDC stand IIRC, along with blueboy, and a few others.
14 November 2005, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Rasher
yep that is right cheers for the comment
Besides, if I remember rightly, you`re one BIG ******, and I wouldn`t want a good hiding off you !
14 November 2005, 06:27 PM
#52
I dont disagree with your comments regarding EVO, as some of their views are rather strange but they need to shift magazines.
Its just when you see any "which is the best A or B" discussions, they often degenerate into my cars better than your car slanging matches.
I have always believed to have an inforrned discussion/debate and come up with a worthwhile answer independant evidence is useful.
Its just when you see any "which is the best A or B" discussions, they often degenerate into my cars better than your car slanging matches.
I have always believed to have an inforrned discussion/debate and come up with a worthwhile answer independant evidence is useful.
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