Luan Pra bang

not really true

RedFive

Not true or not really true ? Or not true outside of Africa?

Anyway, this thread suddenly died now, as most threads do when people talk facts instead of talking out of their ****.

Interesting you chose my post to complain though Can you tell me why ?

Fuzz

Yes.

Dog is dead.

If it's the welsh hippy he's still alive... just


Andy

imi

It shows.

imi

Get off your **** and do your own research....youve got a brain so use it....stop relying on others on a flippin internet forum to try and put you straight....FFS

imi

Its not true at all, nothing "really" about it

R4LLY

iTrader: (1)

I understand you both probably have never been educated on islam and have no idea of the concept of it, this is maybe the reason for your misconstrued ideas and views of the fundamentals of islam. so in case you were bunking off your R.E lessons at school here is a little break down for you (page references are listed and also highlighted are similarities between islam and christianity:

ISLAM
1.
DEFINITION
A.
Meaning of Islam
(i)
Islam is derived from the word salaam meaning peace.
(ii)
Submission to the Will of Allah (swt) i.e. God Almighty.
B.
Meaning of ‘Muslim’ – One who submits his will to Allah.
C.
Islam is not a new religion found by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
2.
MESSENGERS IN ISLAM
A.
(i)
To every nation was sent a Guide or a Messenger
Al-Qur'an 35:24
Al-Qur'an 13:7


(ii)
25 Prophets mentioned by name in the Qur'an
(iii)
Islam is the only non-Christian faith that believes in Jesus (pbuh)
(iv)
Stories only of some prophets mentioned in Qur'an
Al-Qur'an 4:164
Al-Qur'an 40:78


(v)
More than 1,24,000 Messengers according to Hadith
B.
(i)
Previous Messengers were only sent for their people and nation and their complete message was meant only for a particular time period.
(ii)
Moses (pbuh) was only sent for the Jews.
(iii)
Jesus (pbuh) sent only for the Jews i.e. lost sheep of Israel.
Al-Qur'an 3:49
Mathew 10:5-6
Mathew 15:24


(iv)
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is the Last and Final Messenger for the
Whole of Mankind.
Al-Qur'an 33:40
Al-Qur'an 21:107
Al-Qur'an 34:28
Sahih Bukhari Vol.1 Book of Salaah Chapter 56 Hadith No. 429


(v)
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) prophesised in the Bible.
Al-Qur'an 7:157
Al-Qur'an 61:6
Deuteronomy 18:18
Isaiah 29:12
Song of Solomon 5:16
John 16:7
John 16:12-14


3.
REVELATIONS OF GOD
A.
Several Revelations sent by Allah – Al-Qur'an 13:38.
By name only four are mentioned in the Qur’an.


B.
(i)
The Qur’an is the Last and Final Revelation.
(ii)
All previous Revelations before Qur'an were only sent for a particular group of people and for a particular time period
(iii)
The Qur’an was Revealed for the Whole of Mankind
Al-Qur'an 14:1
Al-Qur'an 14:52
Al-Qur'an 2:185
Al-Qur'an 39:41


II
PILLARS OF ISLAM:
1.
Tauheed: Monotheism
A.
La ilaha ilallahu, Muhammad-ur-Rasoolullah
Sahih Bukhari Vol. 1 Hadith No. 7


B.
Believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels and the Book and the Messengers.
Al-Qur'an 2:177


C.
Come to common terms — Worship of one God
Al-Qur'an 3:64


D.
Concept of God
Al-Qur'an 112:1-4
Deuteronomy 6:4
Mark 12:29


E.
Shirk – Biggest Sin
Al-Qur'an 4:48
Al-Qur'an 4:116
Exodus 20:2-5
Deuteronomy 5:7-9


F.
Jesus (pbuh) not God. He never claimed Divinity
Al-Qur'an 5:72
John 14:28
John 10:29
Mathew 12:28
Luke 11:20
John 5:30
Acts 2:21


G.
99 Attributes of Almighty God
Al-Qur'an 17:110


H.
Prefer using name ‘Allah’ rather than the word ‘God’ as the word ‘God’ can be played around with. Allah in the Bible – Eli, Eli, Lama Sabachthani
Mark 15:34
Mathew 27:46


2.
Salaah
A.
Not merely Prayers but Programming
Al-Qur'an 5:90
Al-Qur'an 2:188


B.
Prayers restrain you from shameful and unjust deeds

Al-Qur'an 29:45


C.
Salaah timings – for healthy soul five times a day
. Al-Qur'an 17:78
Al-Qur'an 20:130


D.
Take off shoes before entering mosque.
(i)
Commandment of Allah to Moses
Al-Qur'an 20:11-12
Exodus 3:5
Acts 7:33


(ii)
Can Pray with Shoes.
Sunan Abu Dawood – Vol. 1, Book of Salaah, Chapter 240,
Hadith No. 652-653.


(iii)
Hygienic
E.
Ablution
(i)
Al-Qur'an 5:6
Exodus 40:31-32
Acts 21:26


(ii)
Hygienic
(iii)
Mental Preparation
F.
Stand shoulder to shoulder, while praying –
Sahih Bukhari – Vol. 1, Book of Adhan Chapter 75 Hadith no. 692
Abu Dawood – Vol. 1, Book of Salaah Chapter 245 Hadith No. 666.


G.
Sujud – Prostration
(i)
To humble your mind, humble your body
(ii)
Sujud mentioned 92 times in the Qur’an
Al-Qur'an 3:43
Al-Qur'an 22:77


(iii)
Prostration in the Bible
Genesis 17:3; Numbers 20:6
Joshua 5:14; Mathew 26:39


3.
Zakaah
A.
Meaning: Purification and Growth
B.
Description: 2.5% of saving every lunar year in charity
Al-Qur'an 9:60


C.
If every human being gives Zakaah, not a single person will die of hunger.
D.
"Wealth does not circulate only amongst the wealthy and the rich"
Al-Qur'an 59:7


E.
I Peter 4:8
4.
SAUM - FASTING
A.
Description – one lunar month i.e. during the month of Ramadaan every lunar year, Muslims fast, i.e. abstain from food and drinks from sunrise till sunset.
B.
Benefits: learn self restraint. If you can control your hunger you can control almost all your desires. It enhances spiritual awareness.
Al-Qur'an 2:183


C.
Medical Benefits:
(a)
Increases absorption capacity of intestines
(b)
Lowers cholestrol.
D.
Discourages smoking, alcoholism and other addictions.
E.
Bible prescribes Fasting
Mathew 17:21
Mark 9:29


5.
HAJJ
A.
Description – Pilgrimage atleast once in life time if you can afford it
B.
Universal Brotherhood – 2.5 million people from all over the world gather, wear two pieces of unsewn cloth, preferably white. Cannot differentiate between rich and poor.
Al-Qur'an 49:13


C.
Significance of Kaaba – Muslims don’t worship it
Psalms 84:4-7


III
ISLAM IS A COMPLETE WAY OF LIFEThese five pillars do not constitute complete Islam. Only if the pillars are strong, will the structure be strong.


1.
HUMANS CREATED TO WORSHIP ALLAH
A.
Jinn and Man created for worship of Allah
Al-Qur'an 51:56


B.
Meaning of Ibadaah – root word Abd meaning ‘slave’.
2.
OBEYING COMMANDMENTS OF ALLAH IS SUBMITTING YOUR WILL TO ALLAH
A.
Abstaining from alcohol
Al-Qur'an 5:90
Proverbs 20:1
Ephesians 5:18


B.
Abstaining from prohibited food
Al-Qur'an 5:5
Al-Qur'an 2:173, 5:3, 6:145, 16:115


(i)
Dead meat
Leviticus 17:15
Deuteronomy 14:21


(ii)
Blood
Genesis 9:4, Leviticus 17:14, Deuteronomy 12:16,
I Samuel 14:33, Acts 15:29


(iii)
Pork is prohibited
Leviticus 11:7-8
Deuteronomy 14:8
Isaiah 65:2-5


(vi)
Food on which names beside Allah have been invoked
Acts 15:29; Revelation 2:14


C.
(i)
Being Honest in your Business
(ii)
Helping Neighbours
Al-Qur'an 107:1-7
(iii)
Abstaining from Backbiting
Al-Qur'an 104:1-3
Al-Qur'an 49:11-12


(iv)
Obeying and Respecting Parents
Al-Qur'an 17:23, 24


(v)
Celibacy or Monasticism is prohibited in Islam
Sahih Bukhari: Vol. 7 Book of Nikah, Chapter No. 3, Hadith No. 4


(vi)
Loving, being Kind and Just to your Wife
Al-Qur'an 4:19


(vii)
Abstaining from Adultery
Al-Qur'an 17:32


D.
Dressing Modestly
(i)
Al-Qur'an 24:30
Mathew 5:27-28


(ii)
Al-Qur'an 24:31
(iii)
Six Criteria for Hijab in Islam
Deuteronomy 22:5
I Timothy 2:9 e.g. of Mary
I Corinthians 11:5-6


E.
Circumcision
Acts 7:8
John 7:22
Luke 2:21
F.
In short, every Muslim should follow all the Commandments of Allah (swt) and His Messenger Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and abstain from the things they have prohibited.
CONCLUSION
(a)
If Christian is a person who follows the teachings of Christ (pbuh) and not one who worships Christ (pbuh). (We are more Christian than the Christians themselves).
(b)
Muslim is a person who submits his will to Allah.
Jesus (pbuh) said, "not my will but thy will be done." i.e. Muslim.
John 5:30






(c)


Al-Qur'an 5:82



.

R4LLY

iTrader: (1)

DOES ISLAM PROMOTE VIOLENCE?


Question:

Doesn’t Islam promote violence, bloodshed and brutality since the Qur’an says that Muslims should kill the kuffar where ever they find them?

Answer:

A few selected verses from the Qur’an are often misquoted to perpetuate the myth that Islam promotes violence, and exhorts its followers to kill those outside the pale of Islam.

1. Verse from Surah Taubah
The following verse from Surah Taubah is very often quoted by critics of Islam, to show that Islam promotes violence, bloodshed and brutality:

"Kill the mushriqeen (pagans, polytheists, kuffar) where ever you find them."
[Al-Qur’an 9:5]

2. Context of verse is during battlefield
Critics of Islam actually quote this verse out of context. In order to understand the context, we need to read from verse 1 of this surah. It says that there was a peace treaty between the Muslims and the Mushriqs (pagans) of Makkah. This treaty was violated by the Mushriqs of Makkah. A period of four months was given to the Mushriqs of Makkah to make amends. Otherwise war would be declared against them. Verse 5 of Surah Taubah says:

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is oft-forgiving, Most merciful."
[Al-Qur’an 9:5]

This verse is quoted during a battle.

3. Example of war between America and Vietnam
We know that America was once at war with Vietnam. Suppose the President of America or the General of the American Army told the American soldiers during the war: "Wherever you find the Vietnamese, kill them". Today if I say that the American President said, "Wherever you find Vietnamese, kill them" without giving the context, I will make him sound like a butcher. But if I quote him in context, that he said it during a war, it will sound very logical, as he was trying to boost the morale of the American soldiers during the war.

4. Verse 9:5 quoted to boost morale of Muslims during battle

Similarly in Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 5 the Qur’an says, "Kill the Mushriqs where ever you find them", during a battle to boost the morale of the Muslim soldiers. What the Qur’an is telling Muslim soldiers is, don’t be afraid during battle; wherever you find the enemies kill them.

5. Shourie jumps from verse 5 to verse 7
Arun Shourie is one of the staunchest critics of Islam in India. He quotes the same verse, Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 5 in his book ‘The World of Fatwahs’, on page 572. After quoting verse 5 he jumps to verse 7 of Surah Taubah. Any sensible person will realise that he has skipped verse 6.

6. Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 6 gives the answer
Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 6 gives the answer to the allegation that Islam promotes violence, brutality and bloodshed. It says:

"If one amongst the pagans ask thee for asylum,grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure that is because they are men without knowledge."
[Al-Qur’an 9:6]

The Qur’an not only says that a Mushriq seeking asylum during the battle should be granted refuge, but also that he should be escorted to a secure place. In the present international scenario, even a kind, peace-loving army General, during a battle, may let the enemy soldiers go free, if they want peace. But which army General will ever tell his soldiers, that if the enemy soldiers want peace during a battle, don’t just let them go free, but also escort them to a place of security?

This is exactly what Allah (swt) says in the Glorious Qur’an to promote peace in the world.

If Islam is the best religion, why are many of the Muslims dishonest, unreliable, and involved in activities such as cheating, bribing, dealing in drugs, etc.?



Answer:
1. Media maligns Islam

• Islam is without doubt the best religion but the media is in the hands of the westerners who are afraid of Islam. The media is continuously broadcasting and printing information against Islam. They either provide misinformation about Islam, misquote Islam or project a point out of proportion, if any.
  
• When any bomb blasts take place anywhere, the first people to be accused without proof are invariably the Muslims. This appears as headlines in the news. Later, when they find that non-Muslims were responsible, it appears as an insignificant news’ item.
  
• If a 50 year old Muslim marries a 15 year old girl after taking her permission, it appears on the front page but when a 50 year old non-Muslim rapes a 6 year old girl, it may appear in the news in the inside pages as ‘Newsbriefs’. Everyday in America on an average 2,713 cases of rape take place but it doesn’t appear in the news, since it has become a way of life for the Americans.

2. Black sheep in every community:



I am aware that there are some Muslims who are dishonest, unreliable, who cheat, etc. but the media projects this as though only Muslims are involved in such activities. There are black sheep in every community. I know Muslims who are alcoholics and who can drink most of the non-Muslims under the table.


3. Muslims best as a whole:



Inspite of all the black sheep in the Muslim community, Muslims taken on the whole, yet form the best community in the world. We are the biggest community of tee-totallers as a whole, i.e. those who don’t imbibe alcohol. Collectively, we are a community which gives the maximum charity in the world. There is not a single person in the world who can even show a candle to the Muslims where modesty is concerned; where sobriety is concerned; where human values and ethics are concerned.


4. Don’t judge a car by its driver:





If you want to judge how good is the latest model of the "Mercedes" car and a person who does not know how to drive sits at the steering wheel and bangs up the car, who will you blame? The car or the driver? But naturally, the driver. To analyze how good the car is, a person should not look at the driver but see the ability and features of the car. How fast is it, what is its average fuel consumption, what are the safety measures, etc. Even if I agree for the sake of argument that the Muslims are bad, we can’t judge Islam by its followers? If you want to judge how good Islam is then judge it according to its authentic sources, i.e. the Glorious Qur’an and the Sahih Hadith.
5. Judge Islam by its best follower i.e. Prophet Mohammed (pbuh):



If you practically want to check how good a car is put an expert driver behind the steering wheel. Similarly the best and the most exemplary follower of Islam by whom you can check how good Islam is, is the last and final messenger of God, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Besides Muslims, there are several honest and unbiased non-Muslim historians who have acclaimed that prophet Muhammad was the best human being. According to Michael H. Hart who wrote the book, ‘The Hundred Most Influential Men in History’, the topmost position, i.e. the number one position goes to the beloved prophet of Islam, Muhammad (pbuh). There are several such examples of non-Muslims paying great tributes to the prophet, like Thomas Carlyle, La-Martine, etc

Suresh

LMFAO at the irony.


All this copy/pasting of religious garbage. Are you moses in disguise?????
I think we should be told!


Suresh

imi

What part of the post did you find garbage?? would you care to elaborate??

OR religious posting in general you find as garbage in which case, thats fine as you are entitled to your own opinion...

Suresh

My answer is the latter, which therefore means the former too, by definition. Trust me, that is fine too, because I'm entitled to my opinions. Or do you think I'm not??

The section about "we are the best religion in the world because we say so" is pure class. The article is blinkered and devoid of all rational argument and reason. If people want to believe it though, good luck to them!

Robbie T

iTrader: (8)

Sorry been a bit busy to get back on here and follow progress of the thread.

Redfive, i could go out and buy the book but i seems a waste of money to me.

I also could have googled it for whoever suggested that, but things are often misquoted from bad sources (as some are saying about kyle's quotes).
For me i think if it was something i believed in so strongly i would want to defend it, also if you've read it for yourself you can give (hopefully) a truthful answer.

I could have just believed what was quoted and condemned your faith straight off, at least i gave the right for reply.
God (no pun intended)you're touchy

Anyway i'm off out to be very non tee-total, guess i wont see you in the pub?

R4LLY

iTrader: (1)

typical, out of the whole article you picke out ONE quote.....the post was to educate the people who thought Islam promotes violence etc.... did you not see the title?..... it was aimed at the two individuals who were not educated on Islam and wanted clarification on weather the holy quran promoted violence or not.... were does it say that islam is the best religion because we said so?? is your computer screen working?? it states that the true muslim community as a whole is honest, practise sobriety, etc.... also if you were to read earliear in the post you would clearly see the similarities of Islam and Christianity. it states that whoever believes in christ and his ways is looked upon as a muslim.... what differentiates a muslim following christ's ways and a christian Following Christs ways- NOTHING ONLY NAME!!! So when it says the Muslim community is honest, noble etc... it does not only mean the muslims who are known to be muslim by name, but whoever follows the teachings of the quran. so this could be Jews, Christians or The individuals you identify as being Muslim. and by the way the Quran mentions the bible and the torah as predocessing books of god.... they are known as the Anjeel and the Torat so the people who followed them correctly would be also following the teachings of the Quran, so be called Muslim.........
"Muslim is a person who submits his will to Allah.
Jesus (pbuh) said, "not my will but thy will be done." i.e. Muslim.
John 5:30"

READ THIS POST A FEW TIMES SO YOU CAN COMPREHEND IT....
THE ORIGINAL ARTICLE CLEARLY MADE SENSE IF YOU BOTHERED TO TRY AND UNDERSTAND WHAT IT WAS SAYING RATHER THAN CLOSING YOUR MIND OFF AND PICKING OUT POTENTIAL FAULTS....

Ben WRX Bug-Eye

Can we avoid posting massive chunks of religious scripture up. Bloke called mosses used to do it and it just ended up winding people up. I can find you plenty of quotes from the bible warning Christians about Muslims. Am I am going to post them up? No, because it's not really relevant to the behaviour of Muslims or Christians who are able to think for themselves in the world today.

Suresh

Don't patronise me you nut. I'm not interested in religious guff of any faith, so I will not be reading the scripture.

Be happy with your beliefs , but please don't expect anyone else to give a damn.


Suresh,
also on his way out for an evening of alcohol, music and merriment.

RedFive

Then I think we met Oh bugger, that's already 4 years ago.

Sorry to hear about the dog

Good to hear about the long haired dude though

Billbill

I must come to NSR more often.
Occasionally a thread becomes quite a reading room.
This one has been very entertaining.

Billbill

Leslie

Accepting the concept of the Big Bang and also evolution does not preclude you from believing in a God and a religion either rik 1471.

Les

R4LLY

iTrader: (1)

for the last time READ the post before you make assumptions to what it says. its not warning anyone about any other religion but pointing out SIMILARITIES between two of the largest religions in the world...... The post was posted up because people diddn't understand certain things and made assumptions......

R4LLY

iTrader: (1)

i said read the previous post not the quote, if you dont give a damn then dont add your 2p worth, do not comment on something you cannot comprehend......

Robbie T

iTrader: (8)

Well against the run of play i wanna say thank you R4LLY, as you stated misconceptions had been made so you posted some information.

Unlike some others in this thread <cough> imi <cough>, you have been very level headed and helpful.

To quote the late prophet Notorious B.I.G "If you dont know, now you know"

Suresh

Brainwashing by religious sects is a pretty easy to comprehend - unless you're the one who has been brainwashed - then the ability to reason and think for yourself is usually somewhat compromised

Fuzz

What have I stirred up.
I have been asked why I made a sharp exit from this post...
The original link I found to be on the whole a reasonable question/s to ask.
This thread does highlight better the wider debate from a whole community rather than one Americans slanted view (if that's what it was)
The post is educating, as long as it doesn't decend into some religious riot..
Carry on.

Andy

JCScooby

I also remember a well respected radio presenter once say "Not every muslim is a terrorist, but every terrorist is a Muslim".

Hol

iTrader: (1)

Some of you liberals are full of complete bollox!!!

Live in the real world and not one of your own imagination...

Hol

iTrader: (1)

and don't start me on prison reformers!!!


Idiots, the lot of them!


****
Unsubscribed from this thread before some bleeding heart makes up some more statistical $hite about murderers, rapists and 'Militants' having feelings.
All of which will be flavoured up from real figures.

apples24

iTrader: (1)

HERE HERE

Dracoro

Well, apart from the Catholics (ira, spanish ita, etc.) and the Jewish (Sharon ) and so on and on. Oh, and the Yanks (timothy McVeigh etc.)

Diesel

All this religion stuff seems so irrelevant to me. Its about people, power and control.

The British murdered thousands in the name of the Queen.

Muslim terrorists kill thousands in the name of Allah.

Phol Pot killed thousands in the name of ethnic purity..

The USA kill thousands in the name of democracy.

In the old Yugoslavia... etc etc

It's all BS linking it to religion. It's to do with the human psyche - power, territory, gang/belonging mentality, dominance and control. Look to the skies and think that something lives up there if your imagination/conditioning permits it, but realise that it is unlikley that there is anything there, so all this destruction is actually down to man alone. I mean - would your 'HE' really program us so badly???

D