sgcooby

Why would you think that??

No one says you cant drive 2wd in wet but its still safer and faster with 4wd. 4wd can still be fun in wet when a 2wd car really isnt. I wouldnt like a car that was only fun about half the time.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I personally think it is teh other way round. As it depends if you view is based on safety (and on a public road - you should ) or by outright performace (leave if for the track imo ).

2wd FWD is typically idiot proof as there are less factors invovled in the handling charateristics, barring lift off oversteer, under excess use of power all you will get is understeer (this is where the skill of throttle control comes in...which I found severly lacking on the icy roads yesturday - another story ). 4wd However is not, it'll either understeer OR oversteer, that is dependent on the condition, and when the power is applied or removed during a cornering manvouver. You have a lesser degree of predictability of what it will do when you do lose grip and what you must do to correct it. And that is what catches most eejits out.

I myself find it far easier to control 2wd in slippery conditions. Under nearly all conditions, wheelspin is your first warning of the limits - and that is easily controlled by your right foot. UNdersteer charateristics on tun in without power or under braking is identical to 4wd, in some cases 4wd is worse.

(for those who I noticed trying very badly at driving 2wd in the snow yesturday...do not wheelspin if you want to try and get moving and travel in the direction you are pointing the wheel at, I would have stopped and lectured them myself...but I already had my momentum )

ALi-B Series Land Rover Owner, and regular off roader, but as of yesturday, driving a Ford KA in the snow (Townie indeed )

MattW

Matter of conjecture IMO. Whose to say one is faster than the other, transmission losses on the Impreza would limit the power. Safer, maybe for a poor driver, both have understeer as a characteristic. Remember four wheels can aquaplane just as easily as two.

Moley

iTrader: (9)

Another thing to consider is when/if you modify the car.

As proved with the Astra VXR 240bhp is the max you can go to with fwd if you want the thing to handle at all, where as the Scooby can quite easliy to 330bhp+ and handling will be the same.

sgcooby

2wd is not fun in wet, thats all i was really implying. 4wd is without doubt faster( in the wet). Imagine trying to accelerate out of a bend or roundabout or from the lights( no more lectures about sensible driving please Dad) and having the wheels spin while someone with 4wd blasts away with far superior traction. Not fun getting your *** wooped when youve just spent guts of 17-19 k. By sounds of things some folk here are all against that sort of lairy behaviour on the roads so maybe you would be better off with an ST and take things nice and easy.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Oh, so it's an ego thing.

'nuff said about this converstaion. I'm outahere


<gets coat>

sgcooby

Bye Dad. Take it easy out there. Clunk click every trip. Allways drive like a poof.

Rabid

Can't believe there are people who think 2wd is better in marginal conditions that AWD. Not been my experience ever. It 'aint even about speed, it's about safety and traction which AWD offers.
Being in a front driver has brought that home to me, even fitted with 15" wheels and winter tyres it's basically pretty useless.
Another thing I found my old scooby was a safe understeerer as well. The debate here is WRX or Focus ST, for me there is no comparison if I actually want to be able to get to where I live. In the current weather I've been leaving my car about 1/2 mile away as it just can't get up the hill.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I rest my case

chiark

Clarkson seemed to be enjoying it...

Learn the handling characteristics of any car and you can have fun in it.

No-one's saying "don't have fun", but ye cannae break the laws of physics, even with AWD. Grip round corners, traction out of corners etc will be better, but AWD gives you sod all extra in terms of braking. It's *very* easy to forget this in the snow

The ST and WRX are both good cars. Both have characteristics that you'll need to learn to get the best out of 'em. Both will reward the driver, but I'd hazard a guess that the satisfaction from whupping a WRX owner in an ST will be bigger than the other way around

A lot of people who know what they're talking about think that a RWD 911 is the ultimate driving tool - the weight's in the wrong place, and it'll bite, but if you learn to drive the thing it's bloody satisfying...

My 330D isn't as fast in the wet as my WRX was, but on the other hand it's quite a bit more fun . I'd consider changing it for an 06 Spec C, but at 28 grand then that's not going to happen, is it?

billythekid

As I said 4x4 WILL give you more traction. However grip is going to come down to many many factors. On THE PUBLIC ROADS its not possible to safely explore the limit of grip, I have driven some decent FWD cars in my time and yes in the wet wheel spin can be an issue but in a car with a decent diff and ESP/TC the acceleration / traction is not going to be hampered too much. If its THAT wet then its very likely that you cant use all the power because you are not going to be able to see that far ahead...

"4wd means you dont have to as much" I have heard people saying similar things before. The problem you are having is you are relying on the extra traction to get you out of a potential situation. It may help, but you will probably gain confidence and concentrate less as you are relying on a machine. I have extensive experience in FWD, RWD, 4x4 and in poor conditions on the road it makes little difference.

On the track its a whole different ball game.

Gutmann pug

Yeah but he cant drive and is an arrogant bell end

Personally I think the fact this thread is still going, gathering speed infact shows that the ST is indeed a good car, and will get alot of sales.

8 or 9 seconds quicker on the ring than the RS also says alot about the car IMHO

Gary

DonnieDarko

yeah but how much does it cost to de-tango?

chiark

Tango is a 700 quid option. Metallics are 350, or you could have it in one of the base colours. Just to say it again, there's *not* only 2 colours available.

scoobfan

Yeah, as long as the 2wd is from the rear.

Ever tried driving a car chucking out over 200bhp with front wheel drive??

That's the little Fords downfall.

Rob

scoobfan

Utter crap.

There is no way i could throw my BMW into corners like i can the Scoob.

Rob

C2forWRX

glad to see the input here. I have been in a wrx for a test my05 one and was impressed. but thats probable because i have never ddriven more than a 75 BHP 1.4. The focus just doesnt look special enought to me. I think its too boring to look at. i associate focus's like a lot of people do as family cars. the scoob is and isn't which is a good thing.

If we were to compare the st with a PPP wrx or wrx300 then. would you ppp owners put the car in an entirely different league then? i have never driven ppp.

bugsti

There is no way that a front wheel drive car can compare with the ease of driving a subaru a-b on country roads. It may keep up but I bet the impreza driver is more relaxed at the end of the trip - especially on wet roads.

I reckon anybody that thinks different is probably either a townie or predominately a motorway driver where I would admit the subaru verges on the useless.

As for fords keeping their value......

Most posts on here seem to be either:
1. Where can I get the cheapest deal? or
2. My car has depreciated like a brick.

I wonder if there is any connection?

Gutmann pug

At least ford made a genuine supercar and are doing so again now. Subaru made farmers pick up trucks .........

C2forWRX

sgcooby

330D more fun than a scoob. Ha ha no wonder you drive a ******* car.

warrenm2

You're in SO much trouble!

Gutmann pug

Truth hurt?

Rabid

Ford is as far as I'm concerned the marque that brought us the GT40, RS2000, Cosworth Sierra/Escort and RS Focus all of which are great cars. However there's only one all weather daddy in the budget class the WRX, find me another and I'll probably add it to the list. Only AWD applicants may apply and only less than 3 yrs old for under 20K.

Steve vRS

Lots of Haldex equipped VAG cars.

I think I'll need to drive the WRX and the ST to decide which is best however on paper the current crop of hot hatches seems a better prospect than the WRX.

Once you are into STi money, a 2nd hand M3 looks the best buy.

Steve

matchmaker

I know - my Octavia spends more than half its life parked outside the house as I walk the 5 miles to work in rain, snow, ice, etc.

Latest What Car road test: Focus ST -v- Golf GTI - v- Octavia vRS

1. Octavia
2. Golf
3. Focus

No WRX of course, but the Ford still came last!

bugsti

Should that not be:

a (VERY) 2nd hand M3 (with huge mileage) looks the best buy

Rabid

Haledex is ****e. It's not permanent AWD, one minute you feel you have no confidence in what's going on, next all the grip in the world. Just doesn't inspire for me. That said the A3 quattro I had was able to at least get up to my house which is more than you can say about my Golf diesel. Totally useless in anything but good conditions.

chiark

Try one and report back. If you don't like it, fine, but try to speak from a position of knowing what you're talking about rather than just thinking you drive the pinnacle of motoring excellence...

sgcooby

You are a gob****e. Seeing as i owned an A4 2.5tdi quattro previously do you not think i tried a 330d u ****. Generally its BMW drivers who consider themselves to be driving the pinnacle of motoring excellance and it was indeed you who 1st claimed your car was better u halfwit. I tried a 330d and it was not that fast and not fun to drive, my Audi was the far better proposition and now i have changed to a scoob which is better still. I have tried your car sir and it was mince. That and the embarrasment of actually driving a 'beemer' OMG but i suppose if you have no self esteem anyway and consider diesels exciting then on you go.