Rabid

Nobody has said that other than you. I'd love another RWD car or even one of the new hyper hatches but do you really think RWD or even FWD is better than AWD for marginal conditions. Face facts it isn't. We aren't talking about a do or die BTG lap of the 'ring but everyday schlep to the office and back which for me includes a trip over some pretty hairy A and B roads. My old Impreza was way better at that than anything else I've tried before or after.

kris55

Yeah your right you can get cheaper Scoobs but not at the same age
I have been looking for a new car for nearly a year since I sold my Pug GTi-6 and have hit the same problem time and time again that is high millage cars at high prices and even though these cars are secound hand the newer you go the more the cost even though they may have 40k on the clocks and had everything from brake pads to engine replacements there still OTT on price
If you wont a Scoob say an STi and a brand new one your not going to pay 17k for it which is what the ST is
My point is that its just anouther model that has come on the seen that needs consideration
I already had the big problem of Evo 5 or Scoob STi
All I wont is a Turbo again
I have not owned a Turbo car long a number of years now and I miss the sound of it anybody that has been biten by the Turbo bug and then gone back to a none Turbo car will know what I mean

mart360

one thing to remember,,,

if you buy a wrx it is just that, a wrx designed and built for one objective.

if you buy a ford, you are buying a general run of the mill car, which is then given to the SVT (special vehicles team) who then take the basic package and try to improve it.

not easy when the original brief is an everyday town car...

also bear in mind, that a lot of the componentry onboard, is designed and specced for a standard modle and lifespan, SVT vehicles are often outside this window.

RS focus, very nice, apart from it had vibration problems, snapped manifolds cracked windscreens, due to the stiffnes of the vehicle. All were sorted before launch however.

I must admit, ive seen some of the SVT test drivers giving the vehicles some severe work outs, makes for an interesting day

Ps the drives through the desert at 6am in the morning are fun!!



Mart

suffolkdar

I've driven a lot of cars(and owned some of them too) that were supposed to be the best handling cars of their time,some have been very good(fiat strada abarth,pug 205 gti, proton gti) all front wheel drive, and yes they were all fantastic handling cars with a grin factor of 10/10 , one at least that ( the proton), had no real credabilty apart from the engineers at lotus.....

I have now a 03 sti ppp and it out handles all the above cars if driven properly with an even bigger grin factor! lol 19/10!,
The point being if you get to know how to drive a scooby they really are phenomnal...

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I know what your thinking. Makes you wish that schools didn't have internet connections doesn't it?




NIcely put....but may I point you in the direction of this pathetic run of the mill car.....


The Impreza 1.5...1500cc and 100bhp of pure thoroughbred rally car <snigger>

http://www.subaru.co.jp/impreza/sportswagon/lineup/03/
http://www.carfolio.com/specificatio...omobile-Subaru

Not sure if it's even permanent 4wd or if it is an optional extra (can't translate the Japanease).

Thankfully that shed has yet to hit UK shores (unlike its predecessor - the wallowy barge Impreza 1.6GL ).

davyboy

I think you are confusing grip and handling.

sgcooby

Correct. Apology accepted. Dont be so dense next time.

sgcooby

The reason you cant get an sti for the same money as an ST is because it is a far far better car and in a different class. But you can get a WRX for 17k which is a direct competitor. In fact you can go and buy a brand new WRX for about 16k. Havent you been looking?? You could get an import for just over 15k but i believe some companies are selling 05 new WRX's (UK cars) for less than 17k at the moment and Subaru will no doubt have some on their forecourts for a similar price soon.

Rabid

From what I've read of your comments here and elsewhere on the board you overrate handling and underestimate grip. All the talk of track times people seem to want to indulge in seems divorced from the reality most of us face on a day to day basis in our driving lives.
Surely anyone who is serious about track work has a dedicated car for it rather than using their everyday motors?

davyboy

Oh yeah, thats where I have been going wrong all these years.

Rabid

I didn't think I was suggesting you've been going wrong just that you seem to think everything is about a max attack BTG lap of the 'ring. Wish it was but it isn't. That's why a car without AWD/4WD is useless to me for a percentage of the year.

davyboy

But I drive a car on the road too, I do understand the need for a nice road car.

As a side thought......

I'd question if the new JDM cars have as much grip in the wet (with their special tyres) as a Focus with good OEM tyres, or to that matter an older Subaru with rock hard suspension, 18inch rims and Nangkang tyres.

Rabid

lol@the older subaru on it's phat rims and nangkangs.
From my point of view I'd much rather buy one of the new high power hot hatches than a WRX but I've found that 2 driven wheels don't offer the traction needed for my particular application. I looked at Audi quattros but found them out of my price range, too old or featured poor engines. I believe BMW do 4wd cars but only in Europe. That leaves me with one realistic choice, a Subaru. Shame really as their interior/exterior styling does nothing for me.

MattW

Cough Cough, ahem, are you not forgetting the daddy - Mitsu Evo or the Grand daddy the Skyline???

Rabid

Nope I've thought about both of them but the EVO is unrealistic due to it's 4.5K service intervals and the Skyline would be too old. Would love either if I didn't need something that will work day to day for me. Although I'd probably buy an M5 or 993 in my budget range if practicality wasn't an issue. No doubting that RWD is more fun than anything else.

davyboy

But doesn't 2WD cause you a lack of traction for your "particular application"

Rabid

I suppose if the engine was hanging over the rear and the car had RWD then it might have a bit more traction. Can't afford one of them though. Neither the turbo'd 4WD engine hanging out the back either.
If I was looking to do some track days then RWD would be the way to go without any shadow of a doubt. Not much use when you are trying to get up a steep gradient in the ice though.

kris55

To be honest I have stopped looking as much as I was
I was put in a bit of a spin after testing both an STi and an Evo 5 a while back so you have got me a little
Im not putting either car down Im just saying its somthing that a lot of people will consider and it is more competition for the Scoob to fend off
Which means for those that are selling there price will reflect what they get and as for us buying well its more money we get to hang onto
Well untill the first visit to the garage that is

Aquanaut

But isn't it the same when the new car comes out the motoring hacks rave about it and slate yesterdays hero.

It might be good but I can't get excited about a focus. And its got to be special to get loaned up for and its got to stay special for some time.

Can you imagine taking your ST to the local ford garage for a service the spotty mechanics will be itching to test drive it home for lunch because its the special car in the range.
Note the Exige driver recently who had his crashed during a valet.

Scooby mechanics see scoobies all day I doubt they are itching to test drive them to show them off to their chav mates like the ford mechanics would.

billythekid

I think some of you have not really grasped what I was getting at, I am saying that in normal road driving FWD, AWD, RWD etc is not going to be a factor. There are not many places these days where you can easily push a car towards the limits where you would notice. To get a WRX onto the limits it either needs big steering inputs or high speeds which in reality will only be possible on the odd occasion on the road.

As you all seem to be experts in physics then I would like to hear your thoughts on the following question:

You are driving a FWD car. You are driving around a corner at a lateral acceleration below the limit of adhesion. If you apply power in a smooth action, which of the following things will happen?

A) The car will run wide
B) The car will stay on the same path
C) The car will run on a tighter radius

Explain your answer.

Rabid

If I knew what lateral acceleration was I'd answer your question. Mind you that statement puts me firmly in the non physics expert camp.

addendum to the above statement

Lateral Acceleration- taken from Google

"Lateral acceleration is the sideways force acting upon a tyre whilst cornering. The force is generated when the tyre is steered away from the direction of motion, and is usually related to the tyres cornering power.
A high performance tyre will have a much greater resistance to lateral acceleration and therefore provide better lateral acceleration (cornering) performance"


Still don't know your answer though I guess it would seem obvious from the drivers seat what would happen next.

GrollySTI

Every evening on my drive home I come to a T junction where I turn right onto a fairly busy road up a hill.

You can be sure that if its wet or even slightly damp all the cars in front of me that are front wheel drive have a scary few seconds as they try and get out onto the busy road and accelerate up the hill.For me its easy.

This happens EVERY wet day - I know which type of car I'd prefer to drive.

sgcooby

A tad geeky a question. But front drivers tend to run wide. This not my opinion but common knowledge and of course you can notice the difference between different types of drivetrain on normal roads. The differences are huge and you dont need to get anywhere near the limits to experience them.

Rabid

If all he wanted to know is that a front driver understeers then why didn't he just say so? Surely the answer must be more complicated than that?
Think maybe we can also put to bed the question of how an Impreza WRX would react too, understeer.
Next up a BMW, oversteer.

It cannot be this simple surely?

sgcooby

The correct answer wont be more complicated than that but he will think it is and bamboozle us with his phenomonal physics theories. Every review in every mag ive read or on every probgram ive seen all says FWD cars tend to understeer and RWD cars oversteer and AWD tend to be more neutral. He obviously knows better than these reviewers who make their living comenting on a cars attributes and no doubt top gear and the like will now be head hunting him for a job. Or NASA as his physics is ace.

billythekid

I suggest you read the question again.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

That is traction though, not handling. And people who can't drive

There is a difference.

Be thankful they were in FWD, if they were in a RWD car or even 4WD they could end up facing the wrong way- especially with a rear LSD or E-diff and no traction control

sgcooby

Nah. Its irrelevant.

ru'

I'd guess it'd stay on track (same as a rwd or 4wd), unless applying power (smoothly or not) exceeded the grip available in which case it'd run wide.


And your point is?

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

GrollySTI

Yeah - I do know the difference.

My point being that in all this talk of handling, a majority of drivers will push the boundaries of traction on a far more regular basis therefore this should be considered important.

And its not about people being unable to drive - or can you miraculously prevent a FWD car from spinning its wheels, whilst accelerating from stationary up a wet hill - as fast as you can?