WRX or focus ST
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Originally Posted by davyboy
Yeah FWD is dangerous.........and RWD is a death trap.
We're all going to crash and die unless we subscribe to AWD.
AWD rules wwhhoooooohoooooooo![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
We're all going to crash and die unless we subscribe to AWD.
AWD rules wwhhoooooohoooooooo
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
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Originally Posted by sgcooby
Why would you have to get a 50k 2nd hand scoob???? Brand new almost same price. Import cheaper??????????????????????????????????
I have been looking for a new car for nearly a year since I sold my Pug GTi-6 and have hit the same problem time and time again that is high millage cars at high prices and even though these cars are secound hand the newer you go the more the cost even though they may have 40k on the clocks and had everything from brake pads to engine replacements there still OTT on price
If you wont a Scoob say an STi and a brand new one your not going to pay 17k for it which is what the ST is
My point is that its just anouther model that has come on the seen that needs consideration
I already had the big problem of Evo 5 or Scoob STi
All I wont is a Turbo again
I have not owned a Turbo car long a number of years now and I miss the sound of it anybody that has been biten by the Turbo bug and then gone back to a none Turbo car will know what I mean
#93
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one thing to remember,,,
if you buy a wrx it is just that, a wrx designed and built for one objective.
if you buy a ford, you are buying a general run of the mill car, which is then given to the SVT (special vehicles team) who then take the basic package and try to improve it.
not easy when the original brief is an everyday town car...
also bear in mind, that a lot of the componentry onboard, is designed and specced for a standard modle and lifespan, SVT vehicles are often outside this window.
RS focus, very nice, apart from it had vibration problems, snapped manifolds cracked windscreens, due to the stiffnes of the vehicle. All were sorted before launch however.
I must admit, ive seen some of the SVT test drivers giving the vehicles some severe work outs, makes for an interesting day
Ps the drives through the desert at 6am in the morning are fun!!
Mart
if you buy a wrx it is just that, a wrx designed and built for one objective.
if you buy a ford, you are buying a general run of the mill car, which is then given to the SVT (special vehicles team) who then take the basic package and try to improve it.
not easy when the original brief is an everyday town car...
also bear in mind, that a lot of the componentry onboard, is designed and specced for a standard modle and lifespan, SVT vehicles are often outside this window.
RS focus, very nice, apart from it had vibration problems, snapped manifolds cracked windscreens, due to the stiffnes of the vehicle. All were sorted before launch however.
I must admit, ive seen some of the SVT test drivers giving the vehicles some severe work outs, makes for an interesting day
Ps the drives through the desert at 6am in the morning are fun!!
Mart
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
#94
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Originally Posted by hedgehog
I have an 03 STi and it is not a great handling car and, therefore, not really a fun car to drive on many small roads that are great fun in a lot of other cars. If the WRX suffers from the same problems then I'd say if you want fun go for the Ford. On the other hand my Subaru is a sensible and fairly solid car with reasonable reliability, if a somewhat bland interior, so if these were key factors then the Subaru would probably pip the Ford to the post.
The one thing you have to consider is that if you have wanted a Subaru for ever then you might not be happy until you get one and that might also guide your decision. In the end it is going to be a personal decision based on factors that no one else will understand.
The one thing you have to consider is that if you have wanted a Subaru for ever then you might not be happy until you get one and that might also guide your decision. In the end it is going to be a personal decision based on factors that no one else will understand.
I have now a 03 sti ppp and it out handles all the above cars if driven properly with an even bigger grin factor! lol 19/10!,
The point being if you get to know how to drive a scooby they really are phenomnal...
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Originally Posted by chiark
*sigh*
![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
Originally Posted by mart360
one thing to remember,,,
if you buy a wrx it is just that, a wrx designed and built for one objective.
if you buy a ford, you are buying a general run of the mill car, which is then given to the SVT (special vehicles team) who then take the basic package and try to improve it.
not easy when the original brief is an everyday town car...
also bear in mind, that a lot of the componentry onboard, is designed and specced for a standard modle and lifespan, SVT vehicles are often outside this window.
RS focus, very nice, apart from it had vibration problems, snapped manifolds cracked windscreens, due to the stiffnes of the vehicle. All were sorted before launch however.
I must admit, ive seen some of the SVT test drivers giving the vehicles some severe work outs, makes for an interesting day
Ps the drives through the desert at 6am in the morning are fun!!
Mart![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
if you buy a wrx it is just that, a wrx designed and built for one objective.
if you buy a ford, you are buying a general run of the mill car, which is then given to the SVT (special vehicles team) who then take the basic package and try to improve it.
not easy when the original brief is an everyday town car...
also bear in mind, that a lot of the componentry onboard, is designed and specced for a standard modle and lifespan, SVT vehicles are often outside this window.
RS focus, very nice, apart from it had vibration problems, snapped manifolds cracked windscreens, due to the stiffnes of the vehicle. All were sorted before launch however.
I must admit, ive seen some of the SVT test drivers giving the vehicles some severe work outs, makes for an interesting day
Ps the drives through the desert at 6am in the morning are fun!!
Mart
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
NIcely put....but may I point you in the direction of this pathetic run of the mill car.....
The Impreza 1.5...1500cc and 100bhp of pure thoroughbred rally car <snigger>
![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
http://www.subaru.co.jp/impreza/sportswagon/lineup/03/
http://www.carfolio.com/specificatio...omobile-Subaru
Not sure if it's even permanent 4wd or if it is an optional extra (can't translate the Japanease).
Thankfully that shed has yet to hit UK shores (unlike its predecessor - the wallowy barge Impreza 1.6GL ).
Last edited by ALi-B; 29 November 2005 at 11:27 PM.
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Originally Posted by suffolkdar
I have now a 03 sti ppp and it out handles all the above cars if driven properly with an even bigger grin factor! lol 19/10!,
The point being if you get to know how to drive a scooby they really are phenomnal...
The point being if you get to know how to drive a scooby they really are phenomnal...
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Originally Posted by 7 Foot
How ridiculous that I would think you were trying to imply the Audi is a better drivers car from this:
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
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Originally Posted by kris55
Yeah your right you can get cheaper Scoobs but not at the same age
I have been looking for a new car for nearly a year since I sold my Pug GTi-6 and have hit the same problem time and time again that is high millage cars at high prices and even though these cars are secound hand the newer you go the more the cost even though they may have 40k on the clocks and had everything from brake pads to engine replacements there still OTT on price
If you wont a Scoob say an STi and a brand new one your not going to pay 17k for it which is what the ST is
My point is that its just anouther model that has come on the seen that needs consideration
I already had the big problem of Evo 5 or Scoob STi
All I wont is a Turbo again
I have not owned a Turbo car long a number of years now and I miss the sound of it anybody that has been biten by the Turbo bug and then gone back to a none Turbo car will know what I mean
I have been looking for a new car for nearly a year since I sold my Pug GTi-6 and have hit the same problem time and time again that is high millage cars at high prices and even though these cars are secound hand the newer you go the more the cost even though they may have 40k on the clocks and had everything from brake pads to engine replacements there still OTT on price
If you wont a Scoob say an STi and a brand new one your not going to pay 17k for it which is what the ST is
My point is that its just anouther model that has come on the seen that needs consideration
I already had the big problem of Evo 5 or Scoob STi
All I wont is a Turbo again
I have not owned a Turbo car long a number of years now and I miss the sound of it anybody that has been biten by the Turbo bug and then gone back to a none Turbo car will know what I mean
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Originally Posted by davyboy
I think you are confusing grip and handling.
Surely anyone who is serious about track work has a dedicated car for it rather than using their everyday motors?
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Originally Posted by Rabid
From what I've read of your comments here and elsewhere on the board you overrate handling and underestimate grip.
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Originally Posted by davyboy
Oh yeah, thats where I have been going wrong all these years.
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But I drive a car on the road too, I do understand the need for a nice road car.
As a side thought......
I'd question if the new JDM cars have as much grip in the wet (with their special tyres) as a Focus with good OEM tyres, or to that matter an older Subaru with rock hard suspension, 18inch rims and Nangkang tyres.
As a side thought......
I'd question if the new JDM cars have as much grip in the wet (with their special tyres) as a Focus with good OEM tyres, or to that matter an older Subaru with rock hard suspension, 18inch rims and Nangkang tyres.
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Originally Posted by davyboy
But I drive a car on the road too, I do understand the need for a nice road car.
As a side thought......
I'd question if the new JDM cars have as much grip in the wet (with their special tyres) as a Focus with good OEM tyres, or to that matter an older Subaru with rock hard suspension, 18inch rims and Nangkang tyres.
As a side thought......
I'd question if the new JDM cars have as much grip in the wet (with their special tyres) as a Focus with good OEM tyres, or to that matter an older Subaru with rock hard suspension, 18inch rims and Nangkang tyres.
From my point of view I'd much rather buy one of the new high power hot hatches than a WRX but I've found that 2 driven wheels don't offer the traction needed for my particular application. I looked at Audi quattros but found them out of my price range, too old or featured poor engines. I believe BMW do 4wd cars but only in Europe. That leaves me with one realistic choice, a Subaru. Shame really as their interior/exterior styling does nothing for me.
#104
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Originally Posted by Rabid
lol@the older subaru on it's phat rims and nangkangs.
From my point of view I'd much rather buy one of the new high power hot hatches than a WRX but I've found that 2 driven wheels don't offer the traction needed for my particular application. I looked at Audi quattros but found them out of my price range, too old or featured poor engines. I believe BMW do 4wd cars but only in Europe. That leaves me with one realistic choice, a Subaru. Shame really as their interior/exterior styling does nothing for me.
From my point of view I'd much rather buy one of the new high power hot hatches than a WRX but I've found that 2 driven wheels don't offer the traction needed for my particular application. I looked at Audi quattros but found them out of my price range, too old or featured poor engines. I believe BMW do 4wd cars but only in Europe. That leaves me with one realistic choice, a Subaru. Shame really as their interior/exterior styling does nothing for me.
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Originally Posted by MattW
Cough Cough, ahem, are you not forgetting the daddy - Mitsu Evo or the Grand daddy the Skyline???
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I suppose if the engine was hanging over the rear and the car had RWD then it might have a bit more traction. Can't afford one of them though.
Neither the turbo'd 4WD engine hanging out the back either.
If I was looking to do some track days then RWD would be the way to go without any shadow of a doubt. Not much use when you are trying to get up a steep gradient in the ice though.
![Cry2](images/smilies/cry2.gif)
If I was looking to do some track days then RWD would be the way to go without any shadow of a doubt. Not much use when you are trying to get up a steep gradient in the ice though.
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Originally Posted by sgcooby
The reason you cant get an sti for the same money as an ST is because it is a far far better car and in a different class. But you can get a WRX for 17k which is a direct competitor. In fact you can go and buy a brand new WRX for about 16k. Havent you been looking?? You could get an import for just over 15k but i believe some companies are selling 05 new WRX's (UK cars) for less than 17k at the moment and Subaru will no doubt have some on their forecourts for a similar price soon.
I was put in a bit of a spin after testing both an STi and an Evo 5 a while back so you have got me a little
Im not putting either car down Im just saying its somthing that a lot of people will consider and it is more competition for the Scoob to fend off
Which means for those that are selling there price will reflect what they get and as for us buying well its more money we get to hang onto
![Norty](images/smilies/norty.gif)
Well untill the first visit to the garage that is
![Lol1](images/smilies/lol1.gif)
#109
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But isn't it the same when the new car comes out the motoring hacks rave about it and slate yesterdays hero.
It might be good but I can't get excited about a focus. And its got to be special to get loaned up for and its got to stay special for some time.
Can you imagine taking your ST to the local ford garage for a service the spotty mechanics will be itching to test drive it home for lunch because its the special car in the range.
Note the Exige driver recently who had his crashed during a valet.
Scooby mechanics see scoobies all day I doubt they are itching to test drive them to show them off to their chav mates like the ford mechanics would.
It might be good but I can't get excited about a focus. And its got to be special to get loaned up for and its got to stay special for some time.
Can you imagine taking your ST to the local ford garage for a service the spotty mechanics will be itching to test drive it home for lunch because its the special car in the range.
Note the Exige driver recently who had his crashed during a valet.
Scooby mechanics see scoobies all day I doubt they are itching to test drive them to show them off to their chav mates like the ford mechanics would.
#110
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I think some of you have not really grasped what I was getting at, I am saying that in normal road driving FWD, AWD, RWD etc is not going to be a factor. There are not many places these days where you can easily push a car towards the limits where you would notice. To get a WRX onto the limits it either needs big steering inputs or high speeds which in reality will only be possible on the odd occasion on the road.
As you all seem to be experts in physics then I would like to hear your thoughts on the following question:
You are driving a FWD car. You are driving around a corner at a lateral acceleration below the limit of adhesion. If you apply power in a smooth action, which of the following things will happen?
A) The car will run wide
B) The car will stay on the same path
C) The car will run on a tighter radius
Explain your answer.
As you all seem to be experts in physics then I would like to hear your thoughts on the following question:
You are driving a FWD car. You are driving around a corner at a lateral acceleration below the limit of adhesion. If you apply power in a smooth action, which of the following things will happen?
A) The car will run wide
B) The car will stay on the same path
C) The car will run on a tighter radius
Explain your answer.
Last edited by billythekid; 30 November 2005 at 02:12 PM.
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If I knew what lateral acceleration was I'd answer your question. Mind you that statement puts me firmly in the non physics expert camp.
addendum to the above statement
Lateral Acceleration- taken from Google
"Lateral acceleration is the sideways force acting upon a tyre whilst cornering. The force is generated when the tyre is steered away from the direction of motion, and is usually related to the tyres cornering power.
A high performance tyre will have a much greater resistance to lateral acceleration and therefore provide better lateral acceleration (cornering) performance"
Still don't know your answer though I guess it would seem obvious from the drivers seat what would happen next.
addendum to the above statement
Lateral Acceleration- taken from Google
"Lateral acceleration is the sideways force acting upon a tyre whilst cornering. The force is generated when the tyre is steered away from the direction of motion, and is usually related to the tyres cornering power.
A high performance tyre will have a much greater resistance to lateral acceleration and therefore provide better lateral acceleration (cornering) performance"
Still don't know your answer though I guess it would seem obvious from the drivers seat what would happen next.
Last edited by Rabid; 30 November 2005 at 02:40 PM.
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Every evening on my drive home I come to a T junction where I turn right onto a fairly busy road up a hill.
You can be sure that if its wet or even slightly damp all the cars in front of me that are front wheel drive have a scary few seconds as they try and get out onto the busy road and accelerate up the hill.For me its easy.
This happens EVERY wet day - I know which type of car I'd prefer to drive.
You can be sure that if its wet or even slightly damp all the cars in front of me that are front wheel drive have a scary few seconds as they try and get out onto the busy road and accelerate up the hill.For me its easy.
This happens EVERY wet day - I know which type of car I'd prefer to drive.
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
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Originally Posted by billythekid
I think some of you have not really grasped what I was getting at, I am saying that in normal road driving FWD, AWD, RWD etc is not going to be a factor. There are not many places these days where you can easily push a car towards the limits where you would notice. To get a WRX onto the limits it either needs big steering inputs or high speeds which in reality will only be possible on the odd occasion on the road.
As you all seem to be experts in physics then I would like to hear your thoughts on the following question:
You are driving a FWD car. You are driving around a corner at a lateral acceleration below the limit of adhesion. If you apply power in a smooth action, which of the following things will happen?
A) The car will run wide
B) The car will stay on the same path
C) The car will run on a tighter radius
Explain your answer.
As you all seem to be experts in physics then I would like to hear your thoughts on the following question:
You are driving a FWD car. You are driving around a corner at a lateral acceleration below the limit of adhesion. If you apply power in a smooth action, which of the following things will happen?
A) The car will run wide
B) The car will stay on the same path
C) The car will run on a tighter radius
Explain your answer.
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If all he wanted to know is that a front driver understeers then why didn't he just say so? Surely the answer must be more complicated than that?
Think maybe we can also put to bed the question of how an Impreza WRX would react too, understeer.
Next up a BMW, oversteer.
It cannot be this simple surely?
Think maybe we can also put to bed the question of how an Impreza WRX would react too, understeer.
Next up a BMW, oversteer.
It cannot be this simple surely?
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Originally Posted by Rabid
If all he wanted to know is that a front driver understeers then why didn't he just say so? Surely the answer must be more complicated than that?
Think maybe we can also put to bed the question of how an Impreza WRX would react too, understeer.
Next up a BMW, oversteer.
It cannot be this simple surely?
Think maybe we can also put to bed the question of how an Impreza WRX would react too, understeer.
Next up a BMW, oversteer.
It cannot be this simple surely?
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Originally Posted by GrollySTI
Every evening on my drive home I come to a T junction where I turn right onto a fairly busy road up a hill.
You can be sure that if its wet or even slightly damp all the cars in front of me that are front wheel drive have a scary few seconds as they try and get out onto the busy road and accelerate up the hill.For me its easy.
This happens EVERY wet day - I know which type of car I'd prefer to drive.![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
You can be sure that if its wet or even slightly damp all the cars in front of me that are front wheel drive have a scary few seconds as they try and get out onto the busy road and accelerate up the hill.For me its easy.
This happens EVERY wet day - I know which type of car I'd prefer to drive.
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
There is a difference.
Be thankful they were in FWD, if they were in a RWD car or even 4WD they could end up facing the wrong way- especially with a rear LSD or E-diff and no traction control
![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
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I'd guess it'd stay on track (same as a rwd or 4wd), unless applying power (smoothly or not) exceeded the grip available in which case it'd run wide.
And your point is?
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
And your point is?
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
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Originally Posted by ALi-B
That is traction though, not handling. And people who can't drive
There is a difference.
Be thankful they were in FWD, if they were in a RWD car or even 4WD they could end up facing the wrong way- especially with a rear LSD or E-diff and no traction control
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
There is a difference.
Be thankful they were in FWD, if they were in a RWD car or even 4WD they could end up facing the wrong way- especially with a rear LSD or E-diff and no traction control
![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
My point being that in all this talk of handling, a majority of drivers will push the boundaries of traction on a far more regular basis therefore this should be considered important.
And its not about people being unable to drive - or can you miraculously prevent a FWD car from spinning its wheels, whilst accelerating from stationary up a wet hill - as fast as you can?
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)