Evo car of the year 2005
#32
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But john, it's about how fun the cars are, not how fast they ultimately are. No doubt a scoob will cover a bumpy typical road a-b faster than a clio or even a caterham type car, however the caterham or clio will be a more fun way of getting there. That's why they are 'evo' cars. That's not to say the scoob aint fun (since many on here can only accept polar views, it's either the best or worst etc.) because it is, however it's getting a bit dated, competition has caught up, most of which are far cheaper to run, look more descreet and understated, have far better interiors etc. Scoobs are a bit 1990's now, not a bad thing, just a sign that things have moved on.
Last edited by Dracoro; 06 December 2005 at 03:31 PM.
#33
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Results are posted below. Shut your peepers if you haven't read the entire 50+ pages yet.
The Real World.
1. Clio Trophy
2. M3 CS
3=. Roush Mustang
3=. 350Z GT4
5. Exige 240R
The Surreal World
1. Ford GT
2. F430
3. Clio Trophy
4. Gallardo SE
5. M3 CS
Results are posted below. Shut your peepers if you haven't read the entire 50+ pages yet.
The Real World.
1. Clio Trophy
2. M3 CS
3=. Roush Mustang
3=. 350Z GT4
5. Exige 240R
The Surreal World
1. Ford GT
2. F430
3. Clio Trophy
4. Gallardo SE
5. M3 CS
#34
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Originally Posted by john banks
I think the journalists are finding it fashionable to say that Subarus and even Evos are a bit long in the tooth, been there, done that type attitude. In group tests they are losing to cars that have less performance in terms of acceleration or ground covering ability. I find it very difficult to imagine what other cars will cover a tricky road (yes the fabled twisties) better than an STI or an Evo in the hands of an average driver. We're not all oversteer masters on the public roads. Rant over, and I don't even have a Subaru any more...
#35
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I have an M3 that is very similar to the CS that did so well in the test except the steering rack is 5% slower and the brake discs are a few mm smaller - otherwise same tyres/suspension/engine etc. For some reason I'm having AWD turbo nutter pangs again and am test driving the latest offerings tomorrow...
#40
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John have you considered something interesting to suppliment the M3. For example at this time of year you'd get a good VX220 turbo for around £16k. For £2k you'd have a charge cooled 260bhp example and a further £2k for brakes and suspension mods and you have one rapid 930kg car. Round a track I'd expect such a VX would out-do your old scooby and with 260bhp you are looking at around 10s to 100mph. If you went total turbo-nutter with a bigger/better turbo set up you could get serious performance out of. Remember at only 930kg every extra hp really makes a difference. There really isn't a 'do it all' car out there IMHO so an M3/M5 and elise/vx type set up seems pretty sound to me
Alternatively RS4 = £25k. £20k on mods - job done
Alternatively RS4 = £25k. £20k on mods - job done
#41
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Originally Posted by john banks
Not out until March, and its a bit slow (which can be forgiven if it had a few turbos because that could be fixed).
#42
John, in other posts you've said a Porsche is too flash, and would cause raised eyebrows at work, however you want to buy something like a STi with massive rear wing, big scoop, obligatory comedy exhaust etc etc!! I don't understand!
I ditto what others have said about Evos/Scoobs, they have been left behind and the Evo 7/8/9 must be one of the ugliest cars on the road
I ditto what others have said about Evos/Scoobs, they have been left behind and the Evo 7/8/9 must be one of the ugliest cars on the road
#43
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Thanks for the thoughts Kenny, VX sounds good. Drive an old RS4 and I think you'll agree why I don't think it's our sort of car, and modifying it would make it worse. The new RS4 is a bit on the porky side for something that can't be tuned.
My ideal Scooby would be a very fast six cylinder turbo Legacy without big wings.
Re image - the M3 is just anonymous except to petrol heads so it doesn't really matter/just blends in. Comedy is fine, but I don't want people thinking "flash git" which they will if you swan around in a porker.
My ideal Scooby would be a very fast six cylinder turbo Legacy without big wings.
Re image - the M3 is just anonymous except to petrol heads so it doesn't really matter/just blends in. Comedy is fine, but I don't want people thinking "flash git" which they will if you swan around in a porker.
#44
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I still think Scoobies rock, but I'll have to see what I think after a drive tomorrow after living with a normal car for a while. That is how it still feels - Scooby still feels special. I thought that I would love six cylinders, normally aspirated engine, good fuel economy, good ride etc. The reality is that I don't think a new STI will be any less comfortable or practical, will be nearly as good on fuel, and the sound is every bit as good. All this talk about AWD losses and lag is made up for by the torque hit available, and if there are handling deficiencies in the 05 or 06 DCCD STI models then I'll never find them.
Evos do sound anodyne and the AYC fluid change every 4500 miles would be a PITA.
Maybe I have grass is greener syndrome...
Evos do sound anodyne and the AYC fluid change every 4500 miles would be a PITA.
Maybe I have grass is greener syndrome...
#45
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Not driven an RS4 but with mods what it lacks in driver involvment and handling finess it can claw back with grunt
If my next car is to be a performance upgrade I could seriously see myself going for a Noble M400. Ticks the boxes: a) special = yes b) sub 9s to 100 = oh yes! c) handles = hell yes d) invovles driver = I would imagine so
Have you ever considered skylines John or are they a little to 'in your face' style wise?
If my next car is to be a performance upgrade I could seriously see myself going for a Noble M400. Ticks the boxes: a) special = yes b) sub 9s to 100 = oh yes! c) handles = hell yes d) invovles driver = I would imagine so
Have you ever considered skylines John or are they a little to 'in your face' style wise?
#46
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The RS4 can't handle its standard power IMHO. It is nose heavy and the body is all over the place.
Nobles and TVRs are great but they break a lot.
Skylines I like, but they are seriously expensive to modify and are heavy.
Sam was telling me his Evo 9 spools up to 1.8 bar by 3200 RPM (in 4th gear out of 6), dropping to 1.6 bar at the top doing over 400 BHP and 400 lbft reliably with just fuel pump, exhaust, filter and remap.
Subarus and Evos are a nice size, cheap to modify and pretty reliable and I think they do do the all rounder thing quite well, except for taking the misses to a posh restaurant. But a Domino's Americano Dominator is just as nice as posh restaurant Maybe that explains my approach
Nobles and TVRs are great but they break a lot.
Skylines I like, but they are seriously expensive to modify and are heavy.
Sam was telling me his Evo 9 spools up to 1.8 bar by 3200 RPM (in 4th gear out of 6), dropping to 1.6 bar at the top doing over 400 BHP and 400 lbft reliably with just fuel pump, exhaust, filter and remap.
Subarus and Evos are a nice size, cheap to modify and pretty reliable and I think they do do the all rounder thing quite well, except for taking the misses to a posh restaurant. But a Domino's Americano Dominator is just as nice as posh restaurant Maybe that explains my approach
#49
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Originally Posted by john banks
My ideal Scooby would be a very fast six cylinder turbo Legacy without big wings.
#51
Put simply.....
I have now owned my 172 Cup since new (3 years). Longest I have owned any car.
3 scoobs before that including a P1. The clio is a better buy VFM than any of them.
I think a fair bit of green mist has descended on this thread.
I have now owned my 172 Cup since new (3 years). Longest I have owned any car.
3 scoobs before that including a P1. The clio is a better buy VFM than any of them.
I think a fair bit of green mist has descended on this thread.
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Think very few of us feel 'green mist' about a car that can be had for 13K brand new from a main dealer. Think similarly very few of us are going to have 'green mist' about a car with the myriad faults the Trophy appears to suffer from. Also I don't own a WRX before you start down that road.
Really what it boils down to for me is that the Clio is universally acknowledged to be a great car to drive but is an appalling ownership prospect . To use an analogy it's like an inviting pool on a hot summers day that you arrive to find someone took a dump in.
Really what it boils down to for me is that the Clio is universally acknowledged to be a great car to drive but is an appalling ownership prospect . To use an analogy it's like an inviting pool on a hot summers day that you arrive to find someone took a dump in.
#55
I think the green mist applies to those that have shelled out on much more expensive machinery who are worried about being upstaged by the young pretender.
PS No reliability issues with my clio from new yet and there are plenty of other reliable 172s and 182s out there. Read any car forum and its full of threads about reliability issues. Overall industry view is that the Clio isnt that bad
PS No reliability issues with my clio from new yet and there are plenty of other reliable 172s and 182s out there. Read any car forum and its full of threads about reliability issues. Overall industry view is that the Clio isnt that bad
#56
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There seems to be a hell of a lot of that green mist going about. Perhaps Dr. Banks can comment on whether its potentially harmful
Best VFM car I've owned is the S2000 followed jointly by the 406 V6/Saxo VTS (in different ways) and then by the Scooby. The best outright car out of those is still the S2000
Best VFM car I've owned is the S2000 followed jointly by the 406 V6/Saxo VTS (in different ways) and then by the Scooby. The best outright car out of those is still the S2000
#57
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Originally Posted by Rabid
To use an analogy it's like an inviting pool on a hot summers day that you arrive to find someone took a dump in.
What car do you drive then? Or in all to familiar style are you not going to comment?
#58
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Originally Posted by Rabid
Think very few of us feel 'green mist' about a car that can be had for 13K brand new from a main dealer. Think similarly very few of us are going to have 'green mist' about a car with the myriad faults the Trophy appears to suffer from. Also I don't own a WRX before you start down that road.
Really what it boils down to for me is that the Clio is universally acknowledged to be a great car to drive but is an appalling ownership prospect . To use an analogy it's like an inviting pool on a hot summers day that you arrive to find someone took a dump in.
Really what it boils down to for me is that the Clio is universally acknowledged to be a great car to drive but is an appalling ownership prospect . To use an analogy it's like an inviting pool on a hot summers day that you arrive to find someone took a dump in.
as for your comment on the overhyped super-mini for trackdays, then more fool you basically. you clearly have not driven one or had the skill to extract it's track potential. all RS clios are fast, pin sharp handling and fun. I didn't have much trouble at Donny passing most things in my French **** box... okay, no Scoobs or Evo's were there, but 2 Skylines, loads of Caterhams and other known fast cars were struggling to keep up and moving over and this was my first go at it, so driver ability cant really come into question when one of the Skylines was all sponsored and stickered up... fastest thing there was an M3 CSL, but that's a little out of my price range at the moment.
as regards safety they are small and light and all other manufacturers are making cars bigger and heavier... may have something to do with it, so for what it is (or isn't) i think they look to hold up pretty damn well. Scoobs have gained almost 200kg's since they came out, the Clio since the valver has gained less than half that which is fantastic. light car = more fun
#59
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I have green mist as diagnosed by wilf, so I can't comment as I'm biased
Most fun to drive cars I've owned (best first) I would say are: modded Scooby, Puma, M3, Octavia vRS, Fiesta, Focus, 406 V6. VFM: Puma, Octavia vRS, Fiesta, Scooby, 406 V6, M3, Focus.
Best car I've ever driven in standard form: FQ340
I can imagine that a Clio Trophy is very much like a faster Puma - incredibly nimble/chuckable, small, ace steering, just the right power, costing pennies to run.
I nearly took the Puma to a track day, but in the end got in the Scooby. I think the Puma would be awesome at Knockhill, or any similar light car with excellent handling.
Most fun to drive cars I've owned (best first) I would say are: modded Scooby, Puma, M3, Octavia vRS, Fiesta, Focus, 406 V6. VFM: Puma, Octavia vRS, Fiesta, Scooby, 406 V6, M3, Focus.
Best car I've ever driven in standard form: FQ340
I can imagine that a Clio Trophy is very much like a faster Puma - incredibly nimble/chuckable, small, ace steering, just the right power, costing pennies to run.
I nearly took the Puma to a track day, but in the end got in the Scooby. I think the Puma would be awesome at Knockhill, or any similar light car with excellent handling.
Last edited by john banks; 07 December 2005 at 06:31 PM.
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Oh I forgot fun
That is really tough! The S2000 and saxo have to take joint first. The saxo if fun for a chuckability, nimbleness way but the S2000 is rwd, sports car feeling fun. The scooby is next but trails considerably and miles and miles behind is the 406 which was only fun when you were keeping up with scoobys in a straight line.
That is really tough! The S2000 and saxo have to take joint first. The saxo if fun for a chuckability, nimbleness way but the S2000 is rwd, sports car feeling fun. The scooby is next but trails considerably and miles and miles behind is the 406 which was only fun when you were keeping up with scoobys in a straight line.