john banks

Deep, the top two from the cheapo test were the Clio Trophy and the M3 CS. These went on to do quite well against the more exotic stuff.

Dracoro

But john, it's about how fun the cars are, not how fast they ultimately are. No doubt a scoob will cover a bumpy typical road a-b faster than a clio or even a caterham type car, however the caterham or clio will be a more fun way of getting there. That's why they are 'evo' cars. That's not to say the scoob aint fun (since many on here can only accept polar views, it's either the best or worst etc.) because it is, however it's getting a bit dated, competition has caught up, most of which are far cheaper to run, look more descreet and understated, have far better interiors etc. Scoobs are a bit 1990's now, not a bad thing, just a sign that things have moved on.

7 Foot

Spoiler
Results are posted below. Shut your peepers if you haven't read the entire 50+ pages yet.

























The Real World.
1. Clio Trophy
2. M3 CS
3=. Roush Mustang
3=. 350Z GT4
5. Exige 240R

The Surreal World
1. Ford GT
2. F430
3. Clio Trophy
4. Gallardo SE
5. M3 CS

mightyyid

John - sorry, but I don;t think its fashionable but the reality. They are not that great any more and having AWD does not a quality car make. They are behind on costs, servcing, residuals, quality, design to name but a few... They were once good but like most things, they get old. Impreza's are now old - too old to be honest and there is a fair bit better out there. Sure, we might like them, but I am not going to stick my head in the sand because I bought one. I am a mug though for buying one as it's not as good as I thought it would be.

john banks

I have an M3 that is very similar to the CS that did so well in the test except the steering rack is 5% slower and the brake discs are a few mm smaller - otherwise same tyres/suspension/engine etc. For some reason I'm having AWD turbo nutter pangs again and am test driving the latest offerings tomorrow...

7 Foot

The latest offerings being?

john banks

MY06 STI Type UK and Evo VIII MR FQ340 (wouldn't consider the 400) - they don't have a IX demo. Maybe that will help decide

Dracoro

What about the new Audi S4 (or is RS?), you know, the V8 one yum.

john banks

Not out until March, and its a bit slow (which can be forgiven if it had a few turbos because that could be fixed).

LG John

John have you considered something interesting to suppliment the M3. For example at this time of year you'd get a good VX220 turbo for around £16k. For £2k you'd have a charge cooled 260bhp example and a further £2k for brakes and suspension mods and you have one rapid 930kg car. Round a track I'd expect such a VX would out-do your old scooby and with 260bhp you are looking at around 10s to 100mph. If you went total turbo-nutter with a bigger/better turbo set up you could get serious performance out of. Remember at only 930kg every extra hp really makes a difference. There really isn't a 'do it all' car out there IMHO so an M3/M5 and elise/vx type set up seems pretty sound to me

Alternatively RS4 = £25k. £20k on mods - job done

Dracoro

420bhp not enough for you

Deep Singh

John, in other posts you've said a Porsche is too flash, and would cause raised eyebrows at work, however you want to buy something like a STi with massive rear wing, big scoop, obligatory comedy exhaust etc etc!! I don't understand!

I ditto what others have said about Evos/Scoobs, they have been left behind and the Evo 7/8/9 must be one of the ugliest cars on the road

john banks

Thanks for the thoughts Kenny, VX sounds good. Drive an old RS4 and I think you'll agree why I don't think it's our sort of car, and modifying it would make it worse. The new RS4 is a bit on the porky side for something that can't be tuned.

My ideal Scooby would be a very fast six cylinder turbo Legacy without big wings.

Re image - the M3 is just anonymous except to petrol heads so it doesn't really matter/just blends in. Comedy is fine, but I don't want people thinking "flash git" which they will if you swan around in a porker.

john banks

I still think Scoobies rock, but I'll have to see what I think after a drive tomorrow after living with a normal car for a while. That is how it still feels - Scooby still feels special. I thought that I would love six cylinders, normally aspirated engine, good fuel economy, good ride etc. The reality is that I don't think a new STI will be any less comfortable or practical, will be nearly as good on fuel, and the sound is every bit as good. All this talk about AWD losses and lag is made up for by the torque hit available, and if there are handling deficiencies in the 05 or 06 DCCD STI models then I'll never find them.

Evos do sound anodyne and the AYC fluid change every 4500 miles would be a PITA.

Maybe I have grass is greener syndrome...

LG John

Not driven an RS4 but with mods what it lacks in driver involvment and handling finess it can claw back with grunt

If my next car is to be a performance upgrade I could seriously see myself going for a Noble M400. Ticks the boxes: a) special = yes b) sub 9s to 100 = oh yes! c) handles = hell yes d) invovles driver = I would imagine so

Have you ever considered skylines John or are they a little to 'in your face' style wise?

john banks

The RS4 can't handle its standard power IMHO. It is nose heavy and the body is all over the place.

Nobles and TVRs are great but they break a lot.

Skylines I like, but they are seriously expensive to modify and are heavy.

Sam was telling me his Evo 9 spools up to 1.8 bar by 3200 RPM (in 4th gear out of 6), dropping to 1.6 bar at the top doing over 400 BHP and 400 lbft reliably with just fuel pump, exhaust, filter and remap.

Subarus and Evos are a nice size, cheap to modify and pretty reliable and I think they do do the all rounder thing quite well, except for taking the misses to a posh restaurant. But a Domino's Americano Dominator is just as nice as posh restaurant Maybe that explains my approach

LG John

There really is a market for the perfect car

stevem2k

yup , and it came 6th in the real world tests

stevem2k

Import Leggy GT with a PE1825 then .....

john banks

High compression engine that is a few cylinders short with a 5 speed gearbox of unknown strength though.

wilf

Put simply.....

I have now owned my 172 Cup since new (3 years). Longest I have owned any car.

3 scoobs before that including a P1. The clio is a better buy VFM than any of them.

I think a fair bit of green mist has descended on this thread.

Rabid

Think very few of us feel 'green mist' about a car that can be had for 13K brand new from a main dealer. Think similarly very few of us are going to have 'green mist' about a car with the myriad faults the Trophy appears to suffer from. Also I don't own a WRX before you start down that road.
Really what it boils down to for me is that the Clio is universally acknowledged to be a great car to drive but is an appalling ownership prospect . To use an analogy it's like an inviting pool on a hot summers day that you arrive to find someone took a dump in.

crush her

I don’t really feel comfortable with a magazine which helped to develop and test a car, pronouncing it “the best drivers car”.

john banks

Were Evo magazine involved in the development and testing of the Trophy?

wilf

I think the green mist applies to those that have shelled out on much more expensive machinery who are worried about being upstaged by the young pretender.

PS No reliability issues with my clio from new yet and there are plenty of other reliable 172s and 182s out there. Read any car forum and its full of threads about reliability issues. Overall industry view is that the Clio isnt that bad

LG John

There seems to be a hell of a lot of that green mist going about. Perhaps Dr. Banks can comment on whether its potentially harmful

Best VFM car I've owned is the S2000 followed jointly by the 406 V6/Saxo VTS (in different ways) and then by the Scooby. The best outright car out of those is still the S2000

davyboy

You must be able to think of a better one than that.........that was worse than your opinion of the Clio Trophy.

What car do you drive then? Or in all to familiar style are you not going to comment?

TheJesus

you keep harping on about the faults, but you only have to go on ANY other car forum to realise they all suffer these things. it's not like you get people coming on here posting new topics like "awesome, the lights on my dashboard work" or "engine revs to 7k and doesn't blow up!", if we did the good would outweigh the bad. you need to accept all cars have faults, Reno have more than their fair share, but for the most part they are easy and cheap to own and i bet if you look at a scooby vs trophy over the next 3 years, the scoob will cost a lot more of your hard earned.

as for your comment on the overhyped super-mini for trackdays, then more fool you basically. you clearly have not driven one or had the skill to extract it's track potential. all RS clios are fast, pin sharp handling and fun. I didn't have much trouble at Donny passing most things in my French **** box... okay, no Scoobs or Evo's were there, but 2 Skylines, loads of Caterhams and other known fast cars were struggling to keep up and moving over and this was my first go at it, so driver ability cant really come into question when one of the Skylines was all sponsored and stickered up... fastest thing there was an M3 CSL, but that's a little out of my price range at the moment.

as regards safety they are small and light and all other manufacturers are making cars bigger and heavier... may have something to do with it, so for what it is (or isn't) i think they look to hold up pretty damn well. Scoobs have gained almost 200kg's since they came out, the Clio since the valver has gained less than half that which is fantastic. light car = more fun

john banks

I have green mist as diagnosed by wilf, so I can't comment as I'm biased

Most fun to drive cars I've owned (best first) I would say are: modded Scooby, Puma, M3, Octavia vRS, Fiesta, Focus, 406 V6. VFM: Puma, Octavia vRS, Fiesta, Scooby, 406 V6, M3, Focus.

Best car I've ever driven in standard form: FQ340

I can imagine that a Clio Trophy is very much like a faster Puma - incredibly nimble/chuckable, small, ace steering, just the right power, costing pennies to run.

I nearly took the Puma to a track day, but in the end got in the Scooby. I think the Puma would be awesome at Knockhill, or any similar light car with excellent handling.

LG John

Oh I forgot fun

That is really tough! The S2000 and saxo have to take joint first. The saxo if fun for a chuckability, nimbleness way but the S2000 is rwd, sports car feeling fun. The scooby is next but trails considerably and miles and miles behind is the 406 which was only fun when you were keeping up with scoobys in a straight line.