john banks

It is comfortable and refined Floyd, and it does accelerate well at the top end without any drama. It has good toys and it is very sensible in many ways, but it doesn't chew up roads and spit them out like a Scooby or Evo when your ar$e is on fire That is actually all the Scooby/Evo does well, but it is worth a lot, although knowing me I would probably moan about the other stuff... In the dry the M3 might be better, but the brakes and suspension might be too soft I think. If I can sort the rattles it would be better still. It's been valued at private sale for £1250 less than I paid for it a month down the line, but getting the deal done at this time of year would be tricky.

Nevetas

Well 52k is still more than 46k, myself I'd pay extra and go OPC. But I've had 2 cars blow up on me and crap service from indepents so once bitten twice shy.

Also I'd rather have the 02 car from the OPC for 57k, than the 00 car from an independant at 52k. But thats just me.

Still a good price though

Deep Singh

Yes but the OPC car will have awful spec ie no Sat Nav etc. Resale a major prob. Why go OPC if the indie has slapped on an OPC warranty? You're just paying an extra £5k for nothing.

Nevetas

True, there is one at 59 OPC with all the toys.

Guess I just like the whole Porsche buying experiance and peace of mind, but I have been stung twice before by independents.

When my first car blew up I got treated very well, all my accomadation paid for. Then VIP tickets to the carrera cup where I had dinner with Richard Hammond. They also collect and return my car, full valet. Always call. Dunno, I just feel valued so didn't mind paying a few extra quid. For this type of vehicle, for me, it's all part of it.

drb5

iTrader: (4)

Good write up there John/Steve, but i just can't see you going for the Porker at all John. Not an impression thing, but more a "you'll get bored again" thing.

I reckon you have to just let go and say that you will always want to mod and tbh, i can't see you doing that to a Porker anymore than the Beemer you have at the moment. It would be a great thing and very ballsy, but i somehow don't think that's what you'll do.

I have my money on you getting another Scoob.

T-uk

I hope he keeps the bmw , it makes a change for my car to be faster than his

I like his M3 , the traction control can let you be far more aggressive than you should . it will certainly be faster with it off but that is not for public roads but an airfield imo.

kwispel

Tried the Spec C. Definitely worth the try, although I was no fan of the Type 20 conversion. I like a good bark when I'm pushing, but the Milltek exhaust is just too loud at low speeds.

Amazing torque however ! Pulls like a train in 5-th from 30mph.

FQ340 still felt faster though, although I got my doubts about the reliability...

Davey P

iTrader: (1)

Nevetas,

Top review from your side, made for some interesting reading.

John,

Nice to read a non biased view when comparing the two cars. Great reading yet again.

drb5

iTrader: (4)

Lol!

Funny about the traction control. I'm using a Yaris at the moment till Johns old car is on the road and i'm finding it a bit of a hoot to drive even for a 1 litre car worth 3k! Being able to spin the wheels on near enough every corner and abuse it in generally harsher way than i have any other car, is great. Tried your flat shifting too, but i think it's a bit TOO revvy for that as it must build up about 2-300revs in a nano second!

I defo think Steve has a point about the caring too much for a car that you spend so much money on, buying it.

Maybe you should try a bit harder to convince him to put his money into your car for a new project. 3litre UK Turbo anyone?

jameswrx

iTrader: (4)

What about the evo 9 GT John?

Couple of quotes from MLR..

I just cant get my head around......

1. Take one 9GSR/GT
2. Add fuel pump,induction kit, Exhaust/Decat
3. Re flash wizardry from Sam
4. 420bhp

and..

Depending on who's fudged conversion you use i'm told this equates to abot 420ishbhp and comfortably over 400lb ft torque in pub talk terms

Spool up on the GT is notably sooner than the GSR - sure when the graph comparing my car to grants GSR is posted you will agree the mag turbo must be making a difference

Reckon I have the cheapest FQ-400+ out there

Bills to date stand at just under £26k (inc a new 9gt) cusco zero2r suspension and a set of front AP's waiting to go on

Deep Singh

How much money do you have to pay for years of counselling after driving THE ugliest car in the world?

john banks

The 9GT is appealing, but it seems to be a combination of exploding Mg compressor wheels and no AYC, so I think I'd choose the GSR. They do need something done about the front brakes as well according to Sam. The clutches are dodgy even on standard cars? Adding up Mitsu servicing it is about double the price of the Subaru or M3. I was slightly put off the boost pressures involved to get 400/400, but they aren't Subaru engines!

I think a UK STI with TD06H-20G, fuel pump, remap, exhaust would be similar to the E9GT. Whilst the turbo needs to be swapped I think it would be OK on its stock clutch, and if not, I have one sitting...

Still don't think there is much in it between the two options.

T-uk

I do not think there is anything between any of them as they leave the showroom , the m3 , scoob or evo , are all great cars in their own way.

the m3 is the best all rounder for a sensible doctor **** imo . I think you just need an airfield to play with it. the hardest thing I found in my limited shot was knowing what revs to be at , too low and it feels sluggish with pish all torque , too high and it's screaming with,,, erm,,,, pish all torque but the power seems to make up for this.

the evo's engine is a cracker , it could possibly do with a few more revs up top but this may again be my limited shot. the gearchanges feel almost industrial to the new scoob and the looks inside and out are rough/hard. the steering is much sharper than the uk scoobs though.

I think with my own money I would buy the scoob. they are easier on the eye , cheaper to run , they seem to dig in as well as the evo when pushed and finally have a decent gearbox with ratios and changes that are far superior to the earlier cars. I would say that for a 2.5 I would think the T25 will be the one given the stronger engine and better heads , or for 2litres the spec-c. then again the uk has a nice and cheap 2.5 block if you mod and it goes pop.

advevo

John i have had two times a M3 and i am now on my 3rd evo. I have evo 8MR RS now.

My next car could be sti MY06

Why.

Sti is better to live with day to day. And the nice dccd to play with.

Decicisions are hard. Evo is one crazy car.

Once driven an evo or sti youre f u c ... for life. You know why because there is nothing else which can take you so fast on small roads snow gravel wet etc. Forget a 911 TT no were near an evo or sti in the twisties buy a 911tt if you like straights and have youre hair done.

The big downside on scoobs and evo s is the fast and furious name it has. that s why lots of guys go upmarket to m3 and porsche s. But manny come back they miss the turbo power rally style 4wd etc.

It s a hard choice.

If i had to choose again and the dccd is what i think it is. You should go sti route.

Evo was always more hardcore but now with MY06 the gap is closed to the evo.

DCCD has advantage over the evo. Evo has sharper steering. Thats about it.

john banks

Thanks advevo, Andre? I think it is your drift videos I've seen?

Deep Singh

Ad, an interesting post.
Ad, intersesting post. May I address some posts.' Once driven an evo or sti you are f u c' I admit these are highly addictive fun cars but plenty move on.

To say a 911tt is no where near a STi 'on the twisties' is a little silly isn't it? I would have thought there was'nt much in it. A 911tt is an all weather all terrain supercar, a little heavy though, but 420/400, excellent brakes etc

To say the 911tt is for those 'who like to get their hair done' is like saying Scoobarishis are for those who wear Burberry caps!!

I would disagree that many move on to Porsches and then come running back to rice rockets. How many people do you know who moved up to 911, especially tt and then sold it for a Scooby?????

Anyway, don't know why I'm having this debate I don't own any of the above cars!!!

advevo

Yes john i have done some drifting.

Deep S

I have driven manny supercars on the limit.

GT3 MK1
GT3 MK2
Porsche Turbo
Ferrari 550
Aston Martin V8 new one.

I can not find the hardcore of evo s and sti in any of those cars. A bmw csl and GT3 comes close. But i don t like the engine to be on the back end wrong place.

Maybe lots of people move on to these cars because they getting older en won t be seen in evo s and sti because of the guys with caps on there heads. But if these people speak with there harts they have an sti or evo as soon as possible.

For me i go for driving fun that s all what matters. Price or brand name doesn t matter for me. Yes i am not happy with the fast and the furious sti s and evo s.

I use my evo for rally driving fun on wet roads gravel snow etc. My car used to be white but the mud is all over the car it s hard to find a white spot right now. My 4 tires are gone in 6000km i hope i get 6000 km from them Try that with a porsche you be at the dealer for some expensive parts at no time. I drove a GT3 on track a new one after 10 laps we had oil leakage

I had an M3 for a year i needed a new rear diff already every thing rattles. It s not made for extreem use. These are cars for people who like to drive on boulevard and give some power on the straights. Then those are the best cars to have.

Deep Singh

Ad,
I'm on dangerous ground as I have not driven on the limit any of the cars you mention! However I think we need to decide whether we are talking about fast road/twisties, track or full on gravel/mud rally driving as you mention all three in your post.

On fast roads I say again that a Subarishi will not leave a 996tt for dead, it may even be the other way round. On track 996 GT3s are NOT fragile, people track these things for years. Because the one you were in had an oil leak means nothing. We don't want to start talking about engine fragility and Scoobs!!

If you are talking about rally driving then of course the Porsche figures no where as thats not what its made for.

Cheers
Deep

wolfie28

Advevo I think your spot on with your remarks. I've owned and driven many performance over the years and as we all get unfortunately older I think our attitudes more than tastes change to certain cars. I nearly bought a new M3 at the begining of the year and looking back now I'm glad I stuck with the Scooby. I drive mainly rubbish British 'A' roads so I find cars like the Scooby or Evo suit me, however if I drove on the continent I think I would change vehicles.

Its good that different people buy and prefer different cars thats what gives us thankfully a great choice in performance cars.

P.S. There's a Enzo for sale on Autotrader for £575,000, might be tempted .

Wolfie.

advevo

youre right.

i am more into rally driving for fun. I also race an E90 bmw 3 series with 440hp V8 M5 engine in it. But that a side.

Here in holland there is no fun anymore to get from a GT3 Porsche, Turbo or M3 or M5 those cars need nice long corners and some highway. There is police everywhere over here speedcamera s almost on every corner. The only way you can enjoy those cars is on a wide track were youre not insured. For me it s to expensive to drive a GT3 on the limit on a track were you drive with 30 other idiots. Then the depriciation of those expensive cars you don t get happy over that.

Sti and evo can be driven hard on slippery back roads were you don t see manny police so there i can get some of my fun on the road. There is were the sti and evo fit in nicely and a porsche is not a car for that purpose.

For the money evo and sti are the best you can get today.

Ok back on topic.

John did you test DCCD and did you tweak with it. They say they have changed the dccd setting different to MY05 model.

Davey P

iTrader: (1)

I don't think you can compare a 996tt to a scooby and evo, they are different cars with a huge price tag difference.

I test drove the Evo 9 FQ340 and found it very easy to drive. Just turn in and off you go, if you want some fun then lift off and the tail will come round. It all felt a little too easy but still great fun.
The seats are great, espically with the leather trim round the edge.

I have also taken out a spec c but it was a little damp and it was on roads I didn't know. TBH, they each felt as quick as the other and it would be a very hard decision to choose between the two.

john banks

Andre, I didn't take the DCCD out of auto mode as the ground was freezing and the dealer was in the car. The bias as standard is now slightly further to the front, but of course you can still go manual. T-uk has had more time with an 05 DCCD and I think he feels it is more natural than the Evo's AYC.

The reality is for the price of 996TT even heavily used I could keep the M3 and either do a mad project with T-uk or get another Sub/Mit.

jeremy

Andre, Very enlightening post. It makes me laugh when I read most magazine articles, where they always state the 911Turbo is the King and can live with or demolish Evo's and Sti's on any road-even super curving Wales roads. Actually Chris Harris of AutoCar once compared a 911Turbo to a Hyundai rally car, and the Hyundai killed it.

I can see your point about the Rear-engine, if your really pushing it on a public road, you just don't have the confidence that the rear will always come around neatly.

Have you ever driven a properly sorted high power Audi UrQuattro? (like from Dynalix) That car is easy to drive very fast as well, for some reason having a heavy engine out front in a light car seems to work well for it??

Also have you thought about getting a highly modifed type N (like at Roger Clark Motorsports in the UK) car? Might that truly be the ultimate car to drive b-roads with confidence? JL

Deep Singh

[QUOTE=jeremy]Andre, Very enlightening post. It makes me laugh when I read most magazine articles, where they always state the 911Turbo is the King and can live with or demolish Evo's and Sti's on any road-even super curving Wales roads. Actually Chris Harris of AutoCar once compared a 911Turbo to a Hyundai rally car, and the Hyundai killed it.

I'm a bit confused. Is that a 'proper' rally car? In which case don't they cost £250kish each? I would expect a £250k race car to 'kill' a £100k road car wouldn't you?

wbm3

I'm also confused Can't see why we are trying to compare a Scooby to a Porsche 911 Turbo

Jeremy a 911 is designed as a luxury sports / GT car. It has heated leather seats and a 12 speaker sound system? It's a differant class of car to Scoobies so seems silly to compare?

On unrestricted roads the 911 will hit 195mph in comfort, a standard evo or scooby won't. Sure all this 'in the twisties' stuff, but that would depend largely on the driver.

Remember for about 2k the 911 can have mod work taking it up to a safe 530ps+, then for 5k can't start talking silly ps figures.

Given the choice of Keys to a new STi or a new 911 Turbo I'd take the 911 every time?

Deep Singh

My fault really bringing the 911 tt into John's thread on a MY06/Evo FQ340, it was off topic a bit. I just thought John might want to consider it as a 'wild card' choice ie second hand tt vs heavily modded brand new STi/Evo is not a million miles away in price.

Just confused that a) people think a 'sorted' STi would be faster in the twisties b) suprised that they are suprised that a tt is slower than a full on rally car

sgcooby

Price difference, from some of your earlier posts, was about 20k. That is a million miles away when your busget is 30k. These cars are not in the same league as EVO's and STI's. I dont think if you were considering a porker you would also be thinking about an EVO / STI. Unless of coarse its a boxster your looking at ( similar price ) but then they are not in same league for performance. 20k is close for pricing only if your budget is about 100k.

Deep Singh

I take your point but an early tt is now £45k. A new Evo 340 is ? £32ish k. Then mods to push the power up ?£3-4k thats now £35k in total. So difference is now £10k. Still alot of money I agree.

john banks

A standard 2005 Spec C laps the Ring only three seconds slower than a standard 996TT, although the latter is more comfort biased. I would consider either of them, but would have to be convinced to shell out that much for a second hand TT. The appeal of the 3.6 with that power band is enticing though, but I would never consider modifying.

Having had this without VVT, poorer cylinder heads, no twin scroll and only 80kg less weight, I think the STI WOULD be faster except top speed. Don't be deceived by the apparent lack of low down torque, the run was only started at about 3000 RPM by which time it was fully spooled on the road and in this form the tune was reliable before I got greedy...


996TT:
413 lbft at 4600 RPM
420 BHP at 6000 RPM

vs

Modded UK Scooby:
395 lbft at 4470 RPM
434 BHP at 6470 RPM