NXG

Err, don't ask me I just post here..

NXG

Put yer handbag away BTW, my statement falls firmly into the 'do as I say not as I do' catagory as I know I have a dirty rear number plate and no idea if my lights are still working since I checked them about a week ago...

matty01

If your job was to solve general crime ,tracking organised criminals and drug lords this system would be a great advantage , not to mention terrorists. If you want to circumvent the system it may not be as easy as you might think,a false plate would soon become evident as a ghost plate or a duplicate(one plate cannot show 100 miles from the same plate 18mins later say, one must be a copy, both plates are bieng tracked anyway etc etc ...)In a counter terrorist/serious crime mode any target plate ,false or copied, can be tracked once identified through other methods,no messy gps bugs ,no tailing , the records are taken passivley and compiled automaticly ,you can't know if your bieng followed or not,although i admit this may make one feel uncomfortable that the 'state' has so much knowledge of our private lives,we find ourselves in the uneviable position of having to admit that if we never ever do anything wrong whatsoever [never speed,do donuts on deserted carparks,walk on cracks in pavement ....] ,harmless mistakes and misunderstandings aside ,what do we really have to worry about ?.. and i'm not implying that there's nothing to worry about,...just what is it exactly!
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=3953

GCollier

This isn't about solving crime, more efficient traffic management, or even about being independent of the US in a technology which we're coming to rely on.

It's all about monitoring how many times Unclebuck makes the journey down to Netto for his groceries.

Anyway, well I'm off to wrap my head in tinfoil, grab a box of kleenex and go watch "Enemy of the State".

unclebuck

Hello Gary. Merry Christmas. I hope you banged out a few carols on your oversized fiddle.

The monitoring data will clearly confirm that I don't shop at 'Netto' so will be useful for debunking some myths.

If wrapping your head in foil is your game try watching Signs now showing on BBC1. One of my fave films.

Chris5-0

Sorry it's taken a while to reply i've been out buggering animals and beating small children with my truncheon!!

Once again the bandwagon is leaving and everyone is jumping on it. Once again no-ones bothered asking pertinent questions or looking deeper into my reply. Ah well, would not expect anything less!!

I'll take a few points first, yes this legislation makes all offences arrestable (90% or so to be precise) but that does not mean an increase in arrest rates. All arrests have to be 'neccessary', ie no other means can be used. So your standard traffic offences (as this is of most interest) will still be dealt with at roadside, UNLESS the officer feels it neccessary to arrest the person because they feel that person is either giving them false details or will continue to commit the offence. Again, all stuff we can do now anyway so no major change in power, just legislation.

As for abuse, i'll have it a corrupt officer may arrest someone unneccessarily in the first place, but he still has to get the arrest past the custody sergeant and CPS. And if you really think that we're so corrupt we'd all lie for the sake of locking someone up then nothing i say will ever convince you otherwise.

As for rank and file officers we think its crap, power that is needed (entering a premises to arrest someone after a drink driving injury RTA and the like) has been taken away to pander to bleeding heart liberals worried about human rights. As far as we can see it will lead to more work from us for the same and in a lot of cases, less results. Nobody asked for or wanted this legislation and god only knows why they did it!

Chelspeed

> We need our own system as it's far more accurate then the old US system,

Well apologies but back to the original Galileo GPS thread..... The US military controlled GPS with the european EGNOS version of WAAS gives me +/-8ft accuracy. With a road lane approx 12ft wide the current system can tell which lane of the motorway you're in so what exactly extra are you concerned about with galileo?

I think the current GPS system is fantastic for sta nav, speed camera detection etc etc but then I'm a bit of a gadget man. I can't personally see why we need our own system (unless we're planning to go to war with the US and worried they'll turn SA back on). But equally I don't see anything sinister about it.

I would have thought the ANPR system being quietly rolled out country wide now would be far more concerning. This will know which road your car is on without any need for a black box in your car. I would think you should be far more worried about this than a european GPS system and a vague possible future worry that someone will wish to use it to monitor movement.

Personally ANPR doesn't really bother me, there are what 30m cars in UK? If anyone tries to monitor all of them all the time it would take months to just read the output. So they won't be able to. So I don't worry.

If anyone wanted to monitor speed UK wide then the technology exists now to fit SPECS cameras at every motorway slip road and monitor time on and time off. They're not doing this so why worry about ANPR systems or galileo linked black boxes being used at some vague time in the future to do the same thing.

johnfelstead

ANPR stops are generated by police entering stop warants onto the systems database. When a car of the required type/plate passes an ANPR checkpoint, an alert is raised for the police to stop the vehicle. This all happens automatically in milliseconds, next thing the driver of the car knows is he is being stoped.

This system is full of failures, due either to incorect data at the DVLA or poorly described stop warants added to the system by the police.

As to the increase in arrest powers, this will allow fast tracking the buildup of data on everyone in this country, as the police now have powers to take your DNA and fingerprints on arrest, even if you were arrested by mistake and were not charged with any offence.

As to the custody sergeant and CPS having to be involved, the custody sergeant will base his decision to arest on what is written within the ANPR stop request, so until the details on the ANPR database are verified to his satisfaction, you will be arested and placed in the cells. The CPS do not get involved with this procedure unless you are charged and they then asses the case, which will be some days or weeks later.

Reality

So they can arrest old men at the conference without charging him with being a terrorist.

This Gov is getting quite good at introducing crap laws that are inneffectual.

Fox hunting ban - More foxes being killed by hunts than ever before - Still getting scared ****less being chased by a bunch of ***** on horses with their hounds then being shot.

Anti-Terror - Cherie Blair continues to get her mates off under human rights bollox

and my personal favourite - Shoot to Kill Terrorists - 1 dead electrician and 4 terrorists captured alive.

There's only one answer - and it's not blaming the Police for a few bad apples.

Get Rid of King Tony before it's too late.

Moley

iTrader: (9)

I was recently told by a police officer (who had pulled me for my numberplate) that if a terrorist was to use a motorbike for an attack they wouldn't be able to trace the vehicle, as they do not need a front plate, and the cameras struggle to get the rear plate.

Leslie

As ever, we always get the same old justification, ie. if you do nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear! That is the real con!

The whole point is, as was suggested above, the Jean Monnet system of applying these new laws and powers is being done bit by bit so that we don't make a fuss until all of a sudden the authorities have complete control of the electorate-that is if there still is one of those. In the same way that Brussels is being given more power over our laws etc until we are effectively federated even though France and Holland voted against it, as we would surely do if we were given the referendum that we were so faithfully? promised.

As soon as the authorities have that power and have the forces of law and order under their control also then that is when they could commence to control our lives totally and we will discover that we can no longer do anything or go anywhere without their knowledge and permission. We have to maintain our own protections and personal freedoms because no one can say that we may not get a future bad government who would misuse the powers that are being set in place.

I doubt that anyone here would find that a very fulfilling way to go through life.

Les

r32

The vehicle tracking system to be used with the new GPS system is being developed NOW!

The US own all the GPS satellites and they can switch them off for civilian use when ever they decide to. They also charge for the use ......... This will track cars, and people if necessary, its one of the main uses.........be afraid be very afraid.........

unclebuck

So you will now be able to be arrested for simply dropping litter or not wearing a seat belt. The Government says these measures a required to tackle the "changing nature of crime" hmmm....

I think, as someone suggested above it is really being introduced to 'fast track' the creation of the DNA database they want to compile for every UK citizen, criminal or not.

(Geod, don't you get sick of their lies and double speak?)

Chris5-0

'As to the custody sergeant and CPS having to be involved, the custody sergeant will base his decision to arest on what is written within the ANPR stop request, so until the details on the ANPR database are verified to his satisfaction, you will be arested and placed in the cells. The CPS do not get involved with this procedure unless you are charged and they then asses the case, which will be some days or weeks later.'

John,

We were talking general arrest, not traffic matters. ANPR hits usually equate to no tax, insurance or intel on the system about the vehicle,driver. This new legislation probably won't affect this, arrests made on ANPR will continue to be made, the officers are going off what computers tell them so mistakes will happen and continue to. As for general crime, more and more forces are forcing the arresting officer, once the person is booked in and sat in a cell, to speak to the CPS straight away and show them the bare bones of their case. I know jobs are thrown out even before interview as the CPS does not like the evidence. Even after this initial involvment they are involved again after interview where they more or less tell you whether to charge or not. The days of the corrupt copper stitching someone up are on their way out i assure you, its bloody difficult to get a decent case through let alone a dodgy one!!

johnfelstead

The thread is discusing all aspects of the way policing is going at the moment chris, ANPR and the mistakes it causes are going to be more of an issue by the day in the lives of people trying to go about their legitimate business.

The bent copper is a very small problem compared to the flaud systems the police will be using as a matter of course daily, it's going to destroy any sense of respect people have for the police, and turn the police into a bunch of automated morons who have to follow a computers orders.

I hope everyone who is incorectly arrested and detained via this system takes the force concerned to task, because it's not the way i want to see the police heading, where the aresting oficers know it's a load of bollox taking you to the cells, but they have no choice. Computer says no, ala little britain, is how ANPR works in practice.

Ralf

Aww, you know, privacy laws must be inferior to national security....

GC8

As always; the possible limited successes do not justify the loss of our personal freedom. The end does not justify the means.

Diesel

Leslie

Good points from Johnfelstead and Diesel.

Chris5-0, How do you think we feel when some guy is summonsed for doin 43 mph past a Gatso as was recently reported. He knew that was wrong but it took some seven months before he was sent the requested photos which showed him to be doing 18 mph. The Gatso expert said the registered speed must have been produced by a bus going in the opposite direction! He said this was possible to happen.

It turns out that the people responsible for producing the NIPs were not bothering to check the photographic eveidence! How many drivers got points risking their licences etc because of this shameful behaviour? What sort of picture of the Police does that paint to the general public. And how can you justify the use of a device such as a Gatso when it is likely to produce this kind of flawed evidence?

Can you also tell us the real and believable reason for wanting to reduce 43 CPO's to only 12?

If people generally feel they are being treated fairly and honestly, then the country as a whole will respond as used to happen in earlier times.

Les

Leslie

No reply to that then. Must be out with his truncheon again!

Les

mart360

The few who actually dislike the new changes are allready leaving the service (?)

what you will be left with is blairs private army!!!


funny how when comparasons to another short well known austrian were made

there was a furore, yet as time goes on, more and more systems, ideas, methods, are being introduced that move closer to what "he" purports to be so against??

at what point do you stop beccoming a leader and become a dictator?


Mart

The Zohan

Agree wholeheartedly with Johnf, Deisel and Leslies comments and that leaves me little to add!

pacenote

The current US GPS constellation is used now by so many Public Utility operations worldwide that they would probably never just switch it off. However the US military can direct the satellites to suit their requirements so actual satellite coverage in say the UK might be affected at certain times of the day. I'm also not aware of any charge for receiving GPS signals (at least not had a bill from US embassy for using my Origin B2 ) however if you were using an external radio or mobile phone network to obtain differential corrections then there would obviously be a charge for that.

It's worth mentioning that the US do not have the only GPS constellation, the Russians have their own system called GLONASS which has been around for quite some time but the changes that have taken place in Russia have affected development and reliablity somewhat. It is possible given the correct receiver to access the data from both the US and Russian systems simultaneously and hence increase the available satellite coverage.