New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

The difference is that pretty much anyone can call themselves a counsellor and quite often do, with few recognised qualifications, some don't even belong to the BAC, who used to be something of a joke in terms of admissions, but have improved now!

To be a charted Clinical Psychologist, you have to be properly qualified (by this I mean you will need to hold a degree in Psychology and then a DclinPsy or equivalent) agree to abide by a code of conduct and be subject to professional scrutiny. There is a register of chartered psychologists at the British Psychological Society's website. http://www.bps.org.uk/

I have a degree and a PhD in Psychology, but I'm not trained as a clinical Psychologist, so I wouldn't misrepresent myself as someone who could be approached for professional help about mental illness.

What I can do is advise you to go and see your GP and asked to be referred to the surgery's clinical Psychologist. In fact, I'd advise you to do that as your first port of call really. Don't be palmed off, medication alone is not the answer here. If your GP doesn't help, check the register of clinical Psychologists at the BPS website and find one local to you that you can contact.

Best wishes,

NS04

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I am sorry to hear that you have a number of issues in your life today.

Given what you have said I certainly do not think that chemical intervention will be useful for you.

I do ask you to consider something.

In this thread both you and the majority of the respondents have talked about your problems. Here is the question - when you are using most of your mental energy focusing on your 'problems' and your 'depression' - how much focus are the positive aspects of your life getting?

A simpler way of experiencing this (if you right handed) is to hold out your arms at full stretch either side of your body.

In your left hand I want you to imagine you are holding all the things that challenge you in life - lack of sleep, depression, your story about your past...

In your right hand I want you to imagine you are holding all things you want in life - freedom from this burden, the ability to relax, to feel empowered, to realise your dreams...

As you stand there - think about two things - you spend your time looking at your left hand; and as you look at your left hand you cannot see your right hand. If you cannot see positive aspects of you life and only negative ones then you will get what you focus on.

The best advice on this thread is from the Happy Slough thread - these ten actions will really help you turn your focus from your left hand to your right hand. Once you change this focus your depression will wane and sleep with come easily.

In terms of seeing a counsellor or therapist - there is a very simple way of telling whether they are any good. If they are trying to elicit 'WHY' you are depressed then I would gently suggest that they will not be able to help you. By asking why, your mental processes will automatically justify what has happened in your past that makes you now think you are depressed. Your subconcious mind will continually abreact or relive the past and it will only 'anchor' it in even more strongly. You need to break this pattern in your mind - which again is why you need to refocus from your left hand to your right.

Being depressed is an action like running, smiling, swimming. If the counsellor explores with you 'HOW' you are depressed then this will start to change your demeanour immediately.

I am sure that when you are depressed you will not be active, your shoulders will be down, your head will be down, you will be lethargic. The next time you are like this - stick some music on and jump around like an idiot (make sure the curtains are shut ). Even if this advice seems bizarre - and do not believe it will work - it does not matter. It will make you feel better, more energised and possibly even happier. This is an example of breaking the pattern of your 'depressed' action and replacing it with an action that is much more empowering.

In addition to getting movement into your life let me make one last suggestion.

When you think you cannot sleep I want you to focus exclusively on one thing. I want you to focus on keeping awake as long as you can. Initially you may successfully keep yourself awake - but it won't be successful for that long

Remember - only focus on staying awake - keep yourself awake as long as you can.

Good luck

Rannoch

King RA

I admit counting your blessings really picks me up, you'd be surprised how easy it is to forget what you do have to be thankfull for.

Plus I'm loving caring for my bonsai tree, I have it smack bang in the middle of my lounge, pride of place. You'd be surprised how much difference the little things make.

Chin up!!

Scott.

SiPie

Whilst admittedly this will help with a mild bought of the blues it will do next to nothing for clinical depression when medication may be the only effective treatment to get the old Neurotransmitters firing again !

Counting your blessings and wondering why you don't feel any better will only make you feel worse if clinically depressed.

b022xx

I can see the logic in both points of view i.e. Rannoch and SiPie's.
Trying to just look on the bright side of life sometimes just makes you feel like you are banging your head against a brick wall, because it just does not change how you are feeling. If I had a more positive outlook I wouldn't be in this mess, so I'm kinda treating it like its going to be a more long term process if I want to really get better.

Although I have found myself telling myself to pull it together and be grateful for what I have got that so many others haven't i.e. health, job etc.

Can I just add that I am very grateful for all the responses and time people have taken to respond to this thread

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I also agree that simply looking on the bright side of life will not alone make you happy you also need to break the pattern.

Breaking the pattern as well as changing the focus will bring lasting change. With the right support this does not have to be a long term process - however like physical fitness you will need to 'exercise' the mind in the right way. Something that very few of us do.

Breaking the pattern is so important because as you describe you a playing a old 'movie' over and over again in your mind.

Why bother - you don't even like it. Break the pattern that leads you to play the movie - where you sleep, the time you go to bed, what you do in the evening - all the anchors that trigger the movie being played.

Breaking the pattern and then replacing it with a new pattern of exercise say - or a new focus will create empowering change.

Exercise and physical movement is such a great way of releasing natural 'medications' that in my experience will be enough to stimulate your neurotransmitters.

So break the pattern and change your focus.

SiPie

This will not always be enough for clinically depressed people however, although it is great advice for moderate to mild depression.

Just try getting a severely depressed person to do ANY exercise ........no chance

King RA

Fair enuff mate, I've not had exposure to this thankfully so wouldn't really know.

Drunken Bungle Whore

I've suffered from depression and recognise the sleeping pattern problems. It's an absolute bugger of a thing to deal with.

Firstly I agree with the comments about getting a good psycologist. When I had my major bout it took about 18 months to work through it all. The good news is that once I got through that I've been able to deal with just about anything else life throws at me (and that was 15 years ago!). Of course I wobble - but I go back to what I learned back then and it always helps. So persevere with the therapist, but don't expect quick results - you may feel worse before you feel better.

In terms of drugs - view them the same way you would a pair of crutches if you broke your leg. You'd only use the crutches till your leg healed - so use drugs to help you while you get your balance back - they're not a permanent solution, and they shouldn't be used without being backed up by sound therapy.

Looking on the bright side really isn't an option in the middle of a black depression. There is no bright side, there are no blessings and every silver lining has a cloud right behind it! Just don't try to look too far ahead - get through today and then tomorrow and then the day after that.

As for the sleeping - (and this will sound utterly bizarre!!!). Years ago I saw an interview with Frank Bough when he was still doing breakfast telly. He was asked what he did if he woke in the middle of the night and couldn't get back to sleep. All he said was that he didn't worry about getting back to sleep - he just lay there and relaxed because lying on a bed and relaxing was the next best thing to being asleep. The worst thing you can do is panic that you're not asleep. I appreciate that our friend Frank was most likely coked off his bonce at the time - but I've found his comments to be jolly useful and now, whenever I can't sleep, I find I think about Frank Bough! (Which at least takes my mind off whatever was worrying me for a few minutes!)

Don't give up, keep seeing your therapist and take drugs if they are offered, but only as an interim support solution.

Good luck!

Trout

iTrader: (1)

The Frank Bough story is an excellent example of how you can break the pattern and change the focus. You stop panicking about not sleeping and focus on something else.

A bit like the focusing on staying awake (you won't) it simply changes your focus away from the 'dark side'

Glad to hear you recovered well.

fast bloke

Do you read? Try and get "Life lifters" or "See you at the top" by Zig Ziglar, or "Notes from a friend" by Tony Robbins. Some of the stuff is a bit weird, but all these contain useful advice about how to change your mindset. Also consider "The power of positive thinking" by Norman Vincent Peale.

As far as getting to sleep quickly goes - spend some time thinking about the happy event in your life. What other happy events do you associate it with - What makes you think of it?
I used to take hours and hours to fall asleep - Someone suggested I try this.

(My happy event was learning to drive a green mini round a field while helping out on my uncles farm for an entire summer (aged about 9). The trigger that makes me think if it is "Lucy in the sky with diamonds" as my parents didn't really keep that sort of stuff at home, so that would have been the first chance I had to listen to much pop/rock music.)

For a couple of weeks when I went to bed I would put the the single and concentrate on staying awake for 1 hour thinking only of memories of driving that car and other happy memories associated with it. As soon as you have a negative thought or bad memory then you forget about it and go back to the start. Invariably you are asleep long before the hour is up. Eventually you end up with a train of thought that just happens without you needing to think of the associated memories. Then when your brain hears the music it triggers that train of thought and you get to sleep more quickly. After a month or so the old brain gives in and when you sit down and listen to that piece of music you will be asleep in minutes.

b022xx

I am pretty sure that if I started taking meds then I would become dependent on them. hence the reason I have never smoked or took drugs - too scared that I'd be a heroin addict by the end of the week

The Frank Bough example is a good tip and I will certainly bear it in mind if i'm struggling to sleep tonight.

Saw my therapist tonight and am now considering going to see someone else as I am questioning how much progress I have made in the last 4 months.

thx again folks for your time

jamin

I had an anxiety disorder which to cut a long story short led to a bit of depression so I can totally sympathise with where your coming from. One of the major problems was obivously sleeping. My best bits of advice would be:

- Dont mask the problem with medication, I used valium and it was great...for a couple of hours or until I fell asleep. Also the problem seemed to go away when I was pissed..until I sobered up.
- If your current counsellor isnt doing so well for you try another I tried 2 before I found one that made sense/helped. Sorting your head out is the priority!
- Until someones had it they wont understand it much in the same way non smokers dont understand why people smoke

At the time I felt so alone and like you had nothing in my life to really complain about - Dont give up

wizgti

I don't post on here often, mostly lurk. But just wanted to say as someone who also struggles with depression, it's great to see so many helpful and positive comments instead of the usual pi$$taking and bull$hit on a serious matter

To the original poster all I can advise is if your offered anti depressents take them, they're only temporary and not addictive. It's like having a pair of crutches when you break a leg - you can struggle without them if you want but having them makes it easier! As for a counsellor just keep trying them until you find one that suits YOU. I've seen 4 now in my life and to be honest they've all been $hit up until my latest one.

Be strong as you can and it WILL get better.