4 cyclists killed in road accident in wales :(
08 January 2006, 01:27 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by King RA
How am I wrong?? There is no right or wrong here, just opinion.
d1ck.
siding with mr.lewis, onto a winner there
d1ck.
siding with mr.lewis, onto a winner there
You have lost the plot entirely!!
Pete
08 January 2006, 01:28 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by King RA
Ok, how big is Holland, and how big is the UK?? If you really think this is feasible then you are just as much a moron as pslewis.
Plus, cyclists don't pay road tax remember??? Would you be willing for your taxes to be spent on this?? I doubt it very much.
Plus, cyclists don't pay road tax remember??? Would you be willing for your taxes to be spent on this?? I doubt it very much.
I wouln't mind if the selfish ******* would use the ******* things as they don't around our way, if they were to use the cyclepaths you wouldn't have to play dodge the ******* on a bike with a bus and a car that can't be arsed to get on the cyclepath 2 feet next to him!!!!!
I expect the cyclists had spread themselves across the road round a blind corner like groups of cyclists tend to do
My thoughts as well
08 January 2006, 01:28 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by pslewis
He's siding with common sense ................... promise me you will get mental health help tomorrow??
You have lost the plot entirely!!
Pete
You have lost the plot entirely!!
Pete
Oh god, no, they're here to take me away.....NOOOOOOOOOOOO.
08 January 2006, 01:29 PM
#34
Originally Posted by GC8
On this occasion Im not convinced that the post is stupid. In Holland/The Netherlands cyclists moped riders and cyclists all share the red footpaths and the system works very well. I would certainly support the systems introduction here, for pedestrians and cyclists at least (but not the stupid 10 metre long red 'cycleways' built for EU grant money).
Simon
Simon
I cycle 8 miles each way to work and back using such routes in the summer. It's one of the reasons why cloggies aren't so fat as Brits - using your bike rather than your car is an easy option.Very sad for those who lost loved ones in Wales today though.
Suresh
08 January 2006, 01:29 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by King RA
Plus, cyclists don't pay road tax remember??? Would you be willing for your taxes to be spent on this?? I doubt it very much.
no, they don't pay road tax. but i would imagine many of them pay council tax, which i am pretty sure is used to build cycle paths and pavements.
08 January 2006, 01:30 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by Rannoch
Pete,
maybe it is the crying wolf problem.
When so many of your posts are in 'wind-up mode' and this one reads in just the same style it is perhaps hard to tell you are making a serious point for a change.
As for all the suggestions that it may be the cyclists fault - if it was your family that had just been wiped out then I suspect you might think differently. I like the approach taken in India - the largest vehicle involved in any accident is always responsible. And cars will usually come off better against a cyclist, or even a bunch of them.
Rannoch
maybe it is the crying wolf problem.
When so many of your posts are in 'wind-up mode' and this one reads in just the same style it is perhaps hard to tell you are making a serious point for a change.
As for all the suggestions that it may be the cyclists fault - if it was your family that had just been wiped out then I suspect you might think differently. I like the approach taken in India - the largest vehicle involved in any accident is always responsible. And cars will usually come off better against a cyclist, or even a bunch of them.
Rannoch
If they had their own area to cycle along they would be alive now ........ it is a tragic event and one which should NOT be used as a 'pop at pslewis' chance!!
Have a go at me, by all means, but NOT when people have died and we are discussing how they could have be saved!
Pete
08 January 2006, 01:32 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by Rannoch
Pete,
. I like the approach taken in India - the largest vehicle involved in any accident is always responsible. Rannoch
. I like the approach taken in India - the largest vehicle involved in any accident is always responsible. Rannoch
Wake up and smell the ******* roses will you
08 January 2006, 01:34 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by pslewis
That may be so ....... but, it's entirely up to the reader to read whats written and NOT assuming it's something it's NOT!
If they had their own area to cycle along they would be alive now ........ it is a tragic event and one which should NOT be used as a 'pop at pslewis' chance!!
Have a go at me, by all means, but NOT when people have died and we are discussing how they could have be saved!
Pete
If they had their own area to cycle along they would be alive now ........ it is a tragic event and one which should NOT be used as a 'pop at pslewis' chance!!
Have a go at me, by all means, but NOT when people have died and we are discussing how they could have be saved!
Pete
I'll leave it up to everybody else to make their own minds up, but I know you're fishing.
And to try and now play the innocent party, classic wind up pete but you're fooling nobody.
08 January 2006, 01:38 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by King RA
Don't turn this around pete, there is NO doubt your original post was to raise a reaction. We have a thread a few days ago where the main topic was cyclists not using cycle paths and then the FIRST post you make is referencing this, knowing there are alot of mixed feelings about this subject.
I'll leave it up to everybody else to make their own minds up, but I know you're fishing.
And to try and now play the innocent party, classic wind up pete but you're fooling nobody.
I'll leave it up to everybody else to make their own minds up, but I know you're fishing.
And to try and now play the innocent party, classic wind up pete but you're fooling nobody.
I state that cyclists should be supplied with a safe place to ride and you jump down my neck!!
You have a problem with me - not with what I write and, as such, you need medical help .............. you are displaying classic obscessive behaviour!
Pete
08 January 2006, 01:41 PM
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The indian model is sound , the Dutch model is sound.
And over here we decide the only way is to spend a fortune on TOTALLY seperating cuclist from motorist (sustrans).........
And over here we decide the only way is to spend a fortune on TOTALLY seperating cuclist from motorist (sustrans).....
....
08 January 2006, 01:43 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by pslewis
I think you will find that I did NOT comment on the other thread!!
I state that cyclists should be supplied with a safe place to ride and you jump down my neck!!
You have a problem with me - not with what I write and, as such, you need medical help .............. you are displaying classic obscessive behaviour!
Pete
I state that cyclists should be supplied with a safe place to ride and you jump down my neck!!
You have a problem with me - not with what I write and, as such, you need medical help .............. you are displaying classic obscessive behaviour!
Pete
I've never had a problem with you, not until now that is.
I know that 1st post was to get this exact reaction, and I think it's outright disgusting to use a thread about peoples deaths as a tool of amusement for yourself.
Please don't respond as you will not get a reply, just let it be known how I now feel about you.
08 January 2006, 01:44 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by Huxley
So if some ******* prat on a bike goes straight accross a crossroads in front of you and you wipe him out it's your'e fault
Wake up and smell the ******* roses will you
Wake up and smell the ******* roses will you
08 January 2006, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Rannoch
I would completely agree with you if it were one....there are four dead people and another eight seriously injured in hospital...
So what happens if it's four people that go straight accross a cross roads without stopping,in your eyes it's the drivers fault
They should be made to have insurance if they cycle on the roads or cyclepaths and pavements
08 January 2006, 01:56 PM
#47
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If they had been riding 2 or more abreast this would explain why there was a big accident. If for example it was a single file line, the damage surely would have been limited with less injuries/deaths.
08 January 2006, 01:57 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by pslewis
That may be so ....... but, it's entirely up to the reader to read whats written and NOT assuming it's something it's NOT!
If they had their own area to cycle along they would be alive now ........ it is a tragic event and one which should NOT be used as a 'pop at pslewis' chance!!
Have a go at me, by all means, but NOT when people have died and we are discussing how they could have be saved!
Pete
If they had their own area to cycle along they would be alive now ........ it is a tragic event and one which should NOT be used as a 'pop at pslewis' chance!!
Have a go at me, by all means, but NOT when people have died and we are discussing how they could have be saved!
Pete
I completely agree that this thread should be of concern to those who have lost their lives today and those others fighting for theirs in hospital.
Whatever the outcome it is a terrible accident irrespective of who is to 'blame'. Cars, pedestrians, cyclists and horses are always going to make a volatile mix when they use the same byways - especially with some of the arrogant and criminal disregard being posted about legitimate road users in this thread.
Rannoch
08 January 2006, 02:06 PM
#49
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I'm with PS Lewis on this one, how would one of us feel if it was a member of our family, I always give cyclist's and motorcylist's plenty of room when overtaking.....Condolences to all the families invovled!!!!!
Cheers
Colin
Cheers
Colin
08 January 2006, 02:31 PM
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Not such a bad thing at all a national network for cyclists. I have also thought why such a network hasnt been introduced before. Its not as daft as it sounds really. Id cycle to work (15 miles away) if there was a proper network. Environmentally sound, probably do it quicker on a bike anyway and very cheap, not to mention the health benefits. Initial costs would be high in setting a network up, but I feel it would be worth it in the long run.
08 January 2006, 02:53 PM
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Im sure it was discussed, or at least i heard something on the news about setting up a bike network. It was very expensive to say the least, and probably not something the government is eager to implement.
08 January 2006, 02:56 PM
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I gather from all of the above posts that none of you know the road in question. It's a very fast, open straight bit of road known for it's speeding.
I doubt the cyclists were locals as I dont think that anyone local would take the risks involved in riding along this road as although very fast is quite narrow in parts.
As for Pete's comments I agree to a certain extent that cycleways should be provided but in this case they could easily have cycled along the coast path and also there isnt a bottomless pit of money to provide these paths especially in area like this where cyclists rarely dare to venture.
Chip
I doubt the cyclists were locals as I dont think that anyone local would take the risks involved in riding along this road as although very fast is quite narrow in parts.
As for Pete's comments I agree to a certain extent that cycleways should be provided but in this case they could easily have cycled along the coast path and also there isnt a bottomless pit of money to provide these paths especially in area like this where cyclists rarely dare to venture.
Chip
08 January 2006, 03:21 PM
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Best thing with trolls is simply to ignore them. They thrive on the attention. Deny them what they crave and they're fvcked.
Anyway, apparently the Police say that the driver was in a blue Toyota Corrolla (which instantly provides a likely profile - negligent old biffer) who lost conrol on ice and broadsided into the entire group of twelve local cyclists. Wasn't speeding or drunk - but IMO only - was clearly driving too fast for both the conditions and their abilities. Should get the book thrown...
Anyway, apparently the Police say that the driver was in a blue Toyota Corrolla (which instantly provides a likely profile - negligent old biffer) who lost conrol on ice and broadsided
into the entire group of twelve local cyclists. Wasn't speeding or drunk - but IMO only - was clearly driving too fast for both the conditions and their abilities. Should get the book thrown...
Last edited by unclebuck; 08 January 2006 at 03:23 PM.
08 January 2006, 04:10 PM
#55
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Chief Inspector Lyn Adams, from North Wales Police, said the driver appeared to have lost control on a gentle left-hand bend, striking a wall and rebounding into the road.
He said: "The driver has lost control because of the ice on the road. There is no indication to suggest that this is down to something like excessive speed.
"Our best estimate at the moment is that the car is driving at something like 50 miles per hour. And on a road like this, that isn't excessive speed."
Bit contradictory I think.
Chip
He said: "The driver has lost control because of the ice on the road. There is no indication to suggest that this is down to something like excessive speed.
"Our best estimate at the moment is that the car is driving at something like 50 miles per hour. And on a road like this, that isn't excessive speed."
Bit contradictory I think.
Chip
08 January 2006, 04:21 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by Chip
Chief Inspector Lyn Adams, from North Wales Police, said the driver appeared to have lost control on a gentle left-hand bend, striking a wall and rebounding into the road.
He said: "The driver has lost control because of the ice on the road. There is no indication to suggest that this is down to something like excessive speed.
"Our best estimate at the moment is that the car is driving at something like 50 miles per hour. And on a road like this, that isn't excessive speed."
Bit contradictory I think.
Chip
He said: "The driver has lost control because of the ice on the road. There is no indication to suggest that this is down to something like excessive speed.
"Our best estimate at the moment is that the car is driving at something like 50 miles per hour. And on a road like this, that isn't excessive speed."
Bit contradictory I think.
Chip
My condolences to thge families involved - tragic
08 January 2006, 05:03 PM
#57
I don't know whether the news report has been updated since everyone else read it, but from the comments above it doesn't sound like anyone has read what I've just read, so I thought I would post a chunk of the current report here. It sounds like an accident - a tragic accident - neither the cyclist nor the drivers fault.
------------
Chief Inspector Lyn Adams, from North Wales Police, said the driver appeared to have lost control on a gentle left-hand bend, striking a wall and rebounding into the road.
He said: "The driver has lost control because of the ice on the road. There is no indication to suggest that this is down to something like excessive speed.
"Our best estimate at the moment is that the car is driving at something like 50 miles per hour. And on a road like this, that isn't excessive speed.
'Clearly traumatised'
"Every road traffic collision is treated as a crime scene and tests have already been carried out.
"However there is nothing to suggest the driver did anything but lose control and on the face of it this seems to be a terrible accident."
He said that family liaison officers were with the families of the victims.
Four other adult riders and three children in the cycling club group were uninjured but in shock. The car driver was also said to be "clearly traumatised".
It is understood police were called to another accident on the same road an hour previously after a car lost control on the ice.
'Dangerous' road
The fatal accident scene is near the junction with Gors Road and police said both roads were closed while investigations are carried out.
Scott Eccles, secretary of Rhyl Cycling Club, said: "There was a car coming the other way. There was a kink in the road and it was icy.
"Apparently there had been an accident on the same stretch earlier.
"The car lost control, went up the grass verge, and then it came across the road and into them. They were dead straight away."
------------
Chief Inspector Lyn Adams, from North Wales Police, said the driver appeared to have lost control on a gentle left-hand bend, striking a wall and rebounding into the road.
He said: "The driver has lost control because of the ice on the road. There is no indication to suggest that this is down to something like excessive speed.
"Our best estimate at the moment is that the car is driving at something like 50 miles per hour. And on a road like this, that isn't excessive speed.
'Clearly traumatised'
"Every road traffic collision is treated as a crime scene and tests have already been carried out.
"However there is nothing to suggest the driver did anything but lose control and on the face of it this seems to be a terrible accident."
He said that family liaison officers were with the families of the victims.
Four other adult riders and three children in the cycling club group were uninjured but in shock. The car driver was also said to be "clearly traumatised".
It is understood police were called to another accident on the same road an hour previously after a car lost control on the ice.
'Dangerous' road
The fatal accident scene is near the junction with Gors Road and police said both roads were closed while investigations are carried out.
Scott Eccles, secretary of Rhyl Cycling Club, said: "There was a car coming the other way. There was a kink in the road and it was icy.
"Apparently there had been an accident on the same stretch earlier.
"The car lost control, went up the grass verge, and then it came across the road and into them. They were dead straight away."
08 January 2006, 05:28 PM
#58
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Originally Posted by Huxley
So what happens if it's four people that go straight accross a cross roads without stopping,in your eyes it's the drivers fault
They should be made to have insurance if they cycle on the roads or cyclepaths and pavements
They should be made to have insurance if they cycle on the roads or cyclepaths and pavements
08 January 2006, 05:54 PM
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The road appears to be a main road. Wouldn't a road like that have been gritted? I can't understand how you can just suddenly lose control and slide across to the other side of the road, unless you were going too fast.
