Go On Israel ...................
13 January 2006, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by pslewis
Israel MUST attack ....... and soon!!
Pete
come on pete admit it you only want to do it so we can have the following post
" Did you see, it was my nuke that did it"
Mart
13 January 2006, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Brendan Hughes
I do prefer people who copy and paste sense, rather than insisting on their own crap.
quotations
13 January 2006, 11:39 PM
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Mr Lewis is an ignoble charlatan and a plagiarist. A pinchbeck he is Sir, passing off his pyrite wheels such as a daisy might prostitute its xanthous stamen.
14 January 2006, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by panopticon
Mr Lewis is an ignoble charlatan and a plagiarist. A pinchbeck he is Sir, passing off his pyrite wheels such as a daisy might prostitute its xanthous stamen.
I admire the cut of your jibb, please proceed with haste to your goal...
14 January 2006, 12:26 AM
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Well done, pslewis, but whichever shcoolboy you stole that essay from missed one point, a point which I believe will render you're rahter odd urge for a pre-emptive strike redundant. Presently Iran do not have nuclear capabilities, they're apparently about to start working on them, but even if international diplomacy fails, which in all likelyhood it will NOT, the international community would never allow Israel to strike.
14 January 2006, 01:22 AM
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The rumour is, is that Israel (or whoever) will strike before the end of March to knock out the Iranian nuclear installation. Iran however, is no push-over, which is why (I think) the U.S has built a large base in Israel. This situation is a giant ****-storm in the making for a number of reasons, including;
-the fact that ahmadinejad is expecting the 12th Iman to arise (so in his eyes Iran is undefeatable).
-the fact that Iranian religious leaders are prepared to take heavy losses if the military situation goes nuclear, so long as Israel is wiped out.
-the fact that Egypt has a very strong presence in the Sinai
-the fact that the Ashkelon and Ashdod are now within range of Hamas missiles (oil refinery in these areas).
-the fact that Iran has (russian built) sunburn missiles.
-the fact that Russia would most certainly not be happy if Iran was attacked.
-the fact that Israel may be forced to use the 'Samson option' if things go pear shaped.
There's also the quartet to consider as well as the E.N.P agreements to consider. I'm expecting Iran to go nuclear without any attacks.
-the fact that ahmadinejad is expecting the 12th Iman to arise (so in his eyes Iran is undefeatable).
-the fact that Iranian religious leaders are prepared to take heavy losses if the military situation goes nuclear, so long as Israel is wiped out.
-the fact that Egypt has a very strong presence in the Sinai
-the fact that the Ashkelon and Ashdod are now within range of Hamas missiles (oil refinery in these areas).
-the fact that Iran has (russian built) sunburn missiles.
-the fact that Russia would most certainly not be happy if Iran was attacked.
-the fact that Israel may be forced to use the 'Samson option' if things go pear shaped.
There's also the quartet to consider as well as the E.N.P agreements to consider. I'm expecting Iran to go nuclear without any attacks.
Last edited by turbotroll; 14 January 2006 at 01:24 AM.
14 January 2006, 11:23 AM
#69
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Cutting and pasting again peter? 
http://www.wpherald.com/storyview.ph...9-034151-3932r
Someone else copied other work and passed it off as their own didn't they? Who was it now....
lol
http://www.wpherald.com/storyview.ph...9-034151-3932r
Someone else copied other work and passed it off as their own didn't they? Who was it now....
lol
Ah, but pslewis doesnt need to cut and paste as he works in the 'industry' and has much inside knowledge
14 January 2006, 01:19 PM
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What utter claptrap you lot spout ...... I forgot some """" marks and you jump up and down screeching like a bunch of girls at primary school 
Who said the world would not allow Israel to attack?? Since when has Israel really cared about what the world thought about what they did??
They are a tiny, easily hit state ..... where one or two well placed warheads could "Wipe Israel off the face of the earth" .............. which is EXACTLY what Iran has said it wants to do!!
If my neighbour said that he is going to blow my house and family apart and he is now building the bomb to do it with, in his back garden.
I had the capability to destroy the building of that bomb and the infrastructure being used to build it, would I care about the Town Council saying that it's illegal to attack anothers property????????
Would I bollox ....... I would destroy it forthwith!!
Pete
Who said the world would not allow Israel to attack?? Since when has Israel really cared about what the world thought about what they did??
They are a tiny, easily hit state ..... where one or two well placed warheads could "Wipe Israel off the face of the earth" .............. which is EXACTLY what Iran has said it wants to do!!
If my neighbour said that he is going to blow my house and family apart and he is now building the bomb to do it with, in his back garden.
I had the capability to destroy the building of that bomb and the infrastructure being used to build it, would I care about the Town Council saying that it's illegal to attack anothers property????????
Would I bollox ....... I would destroy it forthwith!!
Pete
14 January 2006, 01:36 PM
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couldn't the US just try to offer huge incentives to Iran to stop the program ie funding the entire Iranian education or healthcare network for a few years. It could present the US in a better light to moderate Iranians and encourage people to choose a better leader and in the long run be cheaper than a nuke fight between Isreal and Iran. No doubt they wouldn't accept but it seems better to offer incentives rather than just making threats.
14 January 2006, 01:38 PM
#72
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Originally Posted by Luan Pra bang
couldn't the US just try to offer huge incentives to Iran to stop the program ie funding the entire Iranian education or healthcare network for a few years. It could present the US in a better light to moderate Iranians and encourage people to choose a better leader and in the long run be cheaper than a nuke fight between Isreal and Iran. No doubt they wouldn't accept but it seems better to offer incentives rather than just making threats.
Or spend the money on a Sterilising campaign??
Pete
14 January 2006, 01:45 PM
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they do raid my bank account to buy houses for 12 year old girls ?
After years of the USA ripping countries to thread supporting brutal dictators and murders why don't they show a nice side. Maybe then people will stop hatinf them and trying to blow them up. In the long run It will SAVE them money. Nuclear war won't ever be cheap
After years of the USA ripping countries to thread supporting brutal dictators and murders why don't they show a nice side. Maybe then people will stop hatinf them and trying to blow them up. In the long run It will SAVE them money. Nuclear war won't ever be cheap
14 January 2006, 01:50 PM
#74
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Originally Posted by Luan Pra bang
they do raid my bank account to buy houses for 12 year old girls ?
After years of the USA ripping countries to thread supporting brutal dictators and murders why don't they show a nice side. Maybe then people will stop hatinf them and trying to blow them up. In the long run It will SAVE them money. Nuclear war won't ever be cheap
After years of the USA ripping countries to thread supporting brutal dictators and murders why don't they show a nice side. Maybe then people will stop hatinf them and trying to blow them up. In the long run It will SAVE them money. Nuclear war won't ever be cheap
Would YOu pay for the 12 year old Chavette and her family to have a house paid for by YOU??
I doubt it .... and thats my point .... why should others pay-off Iran?? An Oil Rich country?? Do me a favour!!
If they want western money then they start towing the western line .... simple as!!
Pete
Last edited by pslewis; 14 January 2006 at 01:53 PM.
14 January 2006, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by pslewis
What utter claptrap you lot spout ...... I forgot some """" marks and you jump up and down screeching like a bunch of girls at primary school
Who said the world would not allow Israel to attack?? Since when has Israel really cared about what the world thought about what they did??
They are a tiny, easily hit state ..... where one or two well placed warheads could "Wipe Israel off the face of the earth" .............. which is EXACTLY what Iran has said it wants to do!!
If my neighbour said that he is going to blow my house and family apart and he is now building the bomb to do it with, in his back garden.
I had the capability to destroy the building of that bomb and the infrastructure being used to build it, would I care about the Town Council saying that it's illegal to attack anothers property????????
Would I bollox ....... I would destroy it forthwith!!
Pete
Who said the world would not allow Israel to attack?? Since when has Israel really cared about what the world thought about what they did??
They are a tiny, easily hit state ..... where one or two well placed warheads could "Wipe Israel off the face of the earth" .............. which is EXACTLY what Iran has said it wants to do!!
If my neighbour said that he is going to blow my house and family apart and he is now building the bomb to do it with, in his back garden.
I had the capability to destroy the building of that bomb and the infrastructure being used to build it, would I care about the Town Council saying that it's illegal to attack anothers property????????
Would I bollox ....... I would destroy it forthwith!!
Pete
14 January 2006, 02:56 PM
#76
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Originally Posted by 2000TLondon
Yep, it is that simple!
Pete
14 January 2006, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by pslewis
I have a convert .... at last 2000TLondon sees sense - you have matured well
Pete
Pete
14 January 2006, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 2000TLondon
And all it took was a swift lobotomy!
Pete
15 January 2006, 05:22 PM
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16 January 2006, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Flatcapdriver
For some reason I can't copy and paste properly so I can't split your points up but anyway...
Yes, I understand Israel's reliance on it's nuclear weapons as a deterrent which only happened as a result of the US's negligence and if they had their time again, there's no way the US would allow Israel to develop them and the best thing that Israel could do in my opinion is to follow South Africa's lead.
The political climate of 1981 is very different today and I don't believe that the Arab world would sit back and let anything like what happened then re-occurr without a massive backlash against the US, both politically and economically and I don't believe that the US is prepared to test that out by allowing Israel to do anything about Iran's nuclear programme.
I don't really want either Israel or Iran to have nuclear weapons because there are way too many hotheads on both sides but because the West has allowed Israel to go down this route either blindly (the US) or because they were conned (France) means that things are coming home to roost. Iran wants a nuclear capability for the same reasons Pakistan did and that is the fault of the Israelis - nobody else. That is why I believe that an attack by Israel won't happen because the US won't allow it for the aforementioned reasons.
The problem with this debate is that we fundamentally disagree over Israel and it's place in the middle east (I think) with you seeing it more as a white knight with peaceful intent and me seeing them as an uneccessary destabilising force in the middle east and not much better than some of the arab extremists. Fortunately, the US keeps this puppet state under reasonable control but the only way to sort this whole situation is not by upping the ante with newer and better weapons, nor by wholesale invasion but quite simply by economic means that both parties gain from.
Yes, I understand Israel's reliance on it's nuclear weapons as a deterrent which only happened as a result of the US's negligence and if they had their time again, there's no way the US would allow Israel to develop them and the best thing that Israel could do in my opinion is to follow South Africa's lead.
The political climate of 1981 is very different today and I don't believe that the Arab world would sit back and let anything like what happened then re-occurr without a massive backlash against the US, both politically and economically and I don't believe that the US is prepared to test that out by allowing Israel to do anything about Iran's nuclear programme.
I don't really want either Israel or Iran to have nuclear weapons because there are way too many hotheads on both sides but because the West has allowed Israel to go down this route either blindly (the US) or because they were conned (France) means that things are coming home to roost. Iran wants a nuclear capability for the same reasons Pakistan did and that is the fault of the Israelis - nobody else. That is why I believe that an attack by Israel won't happen because the US won't allow it for the aforementioned reasons.
The problem with this debate is that we fundamentally disagree over Israel and it's place in the middle east (I think) with you seeing it more as a white knight with peaceful intent and me seeing them as an uneccessary destabilising force in the middle east and not much better than some of the arab extremists. Fortunately, the US keeps this puppet state under reasonable control but the only way to sort this whole situation is not by upping the ante with newer and better weapons, nor by wholesale invasion but quite simply by economic means that both parties gain from.
let's agree to differ. as it happens, i don't see israel as a white knight or even as a white hat. they're there, they're there to stay but they're very being there goes right against the grain of arab street. the starting point - as we'll probably agree on - to any improvement in arab/israeli relations is the urgent formation of a fully-fledged palestinian state. the obstacles are the hawks in the knesset (never to the palestinian state) and the killers in hamas (death to all jews). these two toxic extremist elements must be de-fused in tandem else they'll keep queering the pitch for everyone else at every turn.
i simply come back to my original point: israel is a sub-issue here, they've had the bomb for 30 years or more and never used it - despite the opportunity - which demonstrates a basic responsibility in its (non)deployment.
with iran, all bets are off. israel largely seeks self-preservation within its borders, despite the palestine turf war over what amounts to a tiny area that two sets of people are still bloodily and needlessly bickering over.
iran on the other hand seeks both regional dominance - in particular the long term re-unification of iran and iraq in a new fundamentalist persia - and the destruction, by any means, of the jewish state.
this latter state of affairs is what should concern us. the iranian government believes that its time has come, to emerge from the fall of saddam and a (so far) effective anti-democratic insurgency in iraq as the dominant, nuclear-enabled middle eastern force. let them develop nuclear technology and start of new arms race? no, no, no. it's just plain crazy.
16 January 2006, 01:39 PM
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Well I *myself* think that we should do away with UN sanctions (ineffective as they are) and just remove a) Irans nuclear capability b) the to$$er they put in charge that just doesnt know when to shut up, and happily proclaiming he would love to wipe Israel off the map. I mean, just how much more blanent can you get. I think we trust the other nations that have just become nuclear powers because they are more stable, with less of a loony fringe in charge as well as the fact that with most of them, if the US talks, they listen. This aint going to happen in Iran
16 January 2006, 01:50 PM
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I think we should. Under Chapter 7 of the UN Charter, we have the right to attack for purposes of self-defence. And as they are able to write a speech hinting they might possibly proceed with considering thinking about starting work that has a particular direction that could be construed as moving slowly but inexorably towards producing the material that could be used in weapons of mass destruction, and the speech could be ready in as little as 45 minutes, then legally we'd be fully justified in a full-scale invasion with assumed simple regime change at the end of it.
16 January 2006, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Holy Ghost
i simply come back to my original point: israel is a sub-issue here, they've had the bomb for 30 years or more and never used it - despite the opportunity - which demonstrates a basic responsibility in its (non)deployment.
iran on the other hand seeks both regional dominance - in particular the long term re-unification of iran and iraq in a new fundamentalist persia - and the destruction, by any means, of the jewish state.
this latter state of affairs is what should concern us. the iranian government believes that its time has come, to emerge from the fall of saddam and a (so far) effective anti-democratic insurgency in iraq as the dominant, nuclear-enabled middle eastern force. let them develop nuclear technology and start of new arms race? no, no, no. it's just plain crazy.
On reflection, Iran really shouldn't be allowed to develop nuclear weapons if that is what they are doing and remember the doubt and subsequent diproval of Iraq's so called WMD - potentially that is where we are heading if military action (particularly from Israel) were to happen and for all my aforementioned reasons this is why I cannot see the US allowing Israel to take action.
16 January 2006, 02:54 PM
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Maybe Iran would like a strike, from Israel or the USA, by (tactical) nuclear weapons against one or more of it's installations?
What better way to produce total disarray among the Nations of the World and at the UN?
What better way to produce total disarray among the Nations of the World and at the UN?
