flynnstudio

Who reckons if the other driver had also been in a scooby the sound bite would have been 'they were both driving like idiots"

...and all sympathy would have been chucked out the window...

MG = Old England...

Rage!

That's what I was thinking!

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Exactly, What is clear from this is that both were traveling at very high speeds and -to that end- they both were at fault. Beyonf that, who knows.... To just claim that the Subaru driver was to blame not justified from the available evidence as far as I can see. The MG driver could just have refused to speed, pulled over, waved the Subaru past.

I'm not defending the Subaru driver, racing at those speeds on B roads is irresponsible and doing it with kids in the car is plain idiocy, but the issue of causation here is -justifiably- up for dispute.

The whole thing is very regrettable.

On the subject of punishment, am I alone in wanting to see drink drivers start getting these kind of custodial sentences and longer bans.

Ns04

Tripple'O G

Totally with sirfozz on this one......

drumsterphil

iTrader: (1)

Surely, this can be compared to the two coppers racing each other recently - one driving a scooby and the other a 911.

The 911 ended 5 ft up a tree with the scooby being uninvolved in that crash (apart from racing each other).

Subsequent court case finds the scooby driver innocent of all charges (despite witness statements as to his poor driving) whereas the 911 driver was convicted.

I'd agree that there has to be more to Scooby vs MG case, otherwise there is no consistency (not that there's anything new with that!).

Dream Weaver

This will open the flood gates now to even more of us being prosecuted, for OTHER PEOPLE'S errors and misjudgements.

Very sad that the chap is dead, but they were both responsible for what happened, and ultimately the guy that died chose the outcome, he should have just carried on as normal.

Typical UK, blame culture and always trying to find a scapegoat for a tragedy.

I think it will soon be time to hang the "performance car" boots up, its no fun anymore

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

With the quality of journalism in the Uk -and given even the BBC's willingness to ascribe blame to the scooby driver for this accident, when it it not disputed that the deceased was traveling at equally high speed- how long before we get a...

"Ban these killer cars" campaign?

flynnstudio

Nothing wrong with having a bit of solo fun on a deserted country road after everyone else has gone to bed...

Follow some simple rules you'll can still have fun that doesn't contravene any other persons moral rights..

1) slow down to below legal limits in villages/towns - anywhere there is human dwellings.
2) slow down when approaching a car or a car approaches you - be 100% safe and legal near other cars
3) drive fast only at night on deserted roads in the middle of nowhere...
4) don't race..
5) Dont' do hysterical speeds...
6) Only drive solo

That way no one can ever say you are a danger to other road users..

Rusty.

What a load of bollox

Yes, there is a correct time and a place....Save it for a trackday - simple as that

flynnstudio

Judge doesn't think so...

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=487409

Got ANY good reasons why it's BOLLOX

oh and just for good measure...

two guys racing at high speed - one crashes and dies - who's to blame ?

(oops it was on a TRACK!!! bummer! new rules apply then ?)

SivMY05Sti

Agreed - did'nt get an Sti for its good looks..........know your limits and dont take any risks......

Else buy a diesel Astra and a track car.........

Rusty.

Because a) you are breaking the law so b) you risk invalidating your insurance

Don't look for excuses and loop holes - play safe on a trackday.

They aren't expensive - you are running a performance car after all and they are considerably cheaper than points, a ban or a jail sentence

Rusty.

sneaky edit...you do not RACE on a track day or you will get black flagged an asked to leave by the organising company....I strongly recommend taking part to everyone

LUCKO

iTrader: (3)

regarding the above the 911 driver didn't die, in this MG case someone died so maybe they have to blame someone and added to the fact he had 2 kids in the car he was never going to escape jail, i drive like a d1ck sometimes but never with any passengers. what was he thinking?

Dream Weaver

Trackdays are great, if you an afford £300 every weekend (entry, fuel, fixing things that break, tyres etc) to go and do one, but its only something I can afford a few times a year.

Not advocating racing on the road, as I dont do it often, but no-one on here can say they have never raced or broken the speed limit.

If the govn't really wanted to do something, they would promote trackdays more and maybe even subsidise them

Problem I find with trackdays is they are full of "I know best" veterans, so you end up spending the day looking at your mirrors and pulling to one side to make sure you dont receive the wraith of these "driving elite".

flynnstudio

mmmmh...I was expecting those two - at least we agree that 'moral' boundaries have not been traversed...and the paramount thing is not to endanger any other road users...

Personally, I consider old senile people driving within legal limits potentially far more dangerous than speeding on an empty country road and there is about 30 million of them...I've seen them in garages - some of them can't even open their own wallets - hands shaking, stumbling around, can't muster the strength to open the door to the forecourt shop...so a fully focussed concious and socially responsible bit of high speed driving in the middle of a deserted country road at 2:00 am is hardly the crime of the century..

Insurance - that'll be me and the other 10 million people who speed everyday - or does 5mph above the limit not count in your book ?

...plus I did say 'don't drive at hysterical' speeds - I would put money on it that if the MG driver had done a few midnight sorties in his car or had followed the above rules he'd have known both the limits of his driving ability and his car and wouldnt have raced and so would still be alive today...

...and laws are funny things - It seems a soldier can go to iraq and shoot to kill but I can't do a bit of harmless speeding on a deserted country road - funny old world isn't it! Funny how you can have sex after 16 but you can't watch it until your 18...lot's of daft laws - we learn to live with them...

drumsterphil

iTrader: (1)

That the MG driver dies is unfortunate, and not withstanding we don't know the whole story, this is a simple case of two cars racing on the public highway - exactly the same as the two coppers.

What I was trying to say was that, by choosing to race another car in this manner, even though you do not have an accident, you can still be held accountable for your actions in this instance but not in the case of the two coppers. The end result was one of the car's crashing in both instances, so where's the consistency?!

~DrEaM~

have to agree on that, its not only his fault to cause this ?? you dont have to race if you dont want to??

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

I'd respectfully suggest that if you only ever used your car's performance on a trackday, you may as well save yourself a whole heap of money and buy a rounabout and hire a trackday car i.e a Caterham for the event. Turning to your points specifically:

a) You don't need to do silly speeds on a B road to enjoy yourself. The national speed limit for a single lane road is 60 mph, that's enough scope for having fun, but staying legal.

b) If you do a trackday on road insurance, you risk invalidating it; most companies WILL NOT cover such activities as part of standard cover.

More generally, a person's driving behaviour does have to considered in an appropriate context. A person doing 70mph in good conditions on a clear stretch of national speed limit B road in a performance car would not constitute a unacceptable risk. Take the same speeds on a cold icy night, or when the road is congested and the same no longer applies.

We need to apply a bit of reason and common sense to the argument here; two things that are sorely missing from most debates about speed.

Ns04

Mass.

IMO the bloke deserves evrything he gets but then again it does take two to tango as previously stated

Steve001

iTrader: (7)

Its very sad that someone died, my thoughts go out to the family.

I agree that 'there's a time and place'

the quote below say's it all

it amasing how many (shall we call them 'less capable' cars) overtake me at stupid speeds, dangerous locations and try to push me into races. generally i just smile to myself and let em get on with it. sometimes (when safe to do so) i will put them in there place like the Focus RS a couple of months ago who tailgated me on a slip road to a round-a-bout, the road was clear so i took the scoob round with a touch of overstear, i looked in my rearview to see the RS doing a 360 for the next 4 miles he did'nt tailgate me again.

unfortunately MOST people dont know the cababilities of the car they drive, after 4 years of subaru ownership i still dont know it all and i guess i never will, i love to drive my car and be a bit naughty sometimes but i like to think that i drive to MY limits and not the cars.


Steve

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

But this is the critical point isn't it?

If we accept that the Subaru driver was the cause of the accident then he's being punished for causing death by dangerous driving, speeding, and leaving the scene of an accident, also possibly with obstructing justice for fibbing. A custodial senctence seems appropriate.

IF, HOWEVER, we say, it takes two to tango and that it was the MG driver who played an equal part and simply lost control of his car whilst doing silly speeds (the fact that he was indeed doing silly speeds is not in dispute) then this bloke has just been sent down effectively for leaving the scene of an accident and -obviously- dangerous driving? Is it fair to say he CAUSED the accident by dangerous driving and -therefore-Is a custodial sentence then fair? you decide on that one.

Let me make this clear, I'm not defending him- he was a prat for doing that much above the limit, especially with his bloomin kids in the car and running away and telling his kids to lie was cowardly.

BUT, I'm uncomfortable with the way that the Subaru driver has been labled the CAUSE of this accident in the absence of any evidence that this simply wasn't JUST a case of two people driving like loons, and one -very regrettably- paying the ultimate price for it.

NS04

beemerboy.

PMSL

BB

davyboy

Stereotype Subaru Driver............

beemerboy.

BB

Tripple'O G

Rusty, stick your finger up your **** and pull out your brains will you?

NOBODY who buys a performance car would NOT have put his foot down off the track sometime or another. Anyone who says anything else is talking complete and utter rubbish. The bloke with the MG obviously was biting back and could have stopped/slowed down or not even have bothered but he did. The subaru owner is obviously in the wrong like I said earlier, I agree with sirfozz, but to say don't use it on the road is rubbish.

NS04 even stated you can have fun going down country roads that shouldn't be a 60, at 60!! If you couldn't drive your car and had an accident within the speed limit, what then??

numptie

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

Yes mate - it's all there hidden in the bowels of the ECU, although it doesn't necassarily mean it was on that particular occasion! Those of us with a SECS unit have access to a number of "maximum values"
Without this facility the police would not have any evidence re- speed at the time.
JohnD

Gregy

Totally agree with Harvey,

Whilst I condem dangerous driving, there is a woefull lack of justice in this Country and the Powers that be never take any notice of public opinion.

The whole issue of "speed" on the public highway is portrayed by the Government as the route of all evil, when in reality, accident rates could be massively reduced by better driving standards (why dont the Police tackle poor driving instead of the easy option of someone doing 80 on a motorway), pedestrian education (particually in schools), better signage, road changes (reducing the height of hedges on B roads, gritting all roads in winter etc.).

It's not speed that kills, it's the rate that you slow down!

Gastro

Now who's the Mike Tyson of this BBS ? No need to drop your post to offensive levels

reano

iTrader: (2)

"He that is without sin ......" I bet Rusty would have had a few rocks aye???