Silkolene Pro S 5W-40 - Best (Sorry!)?
29 January 2006, 06:13 PM
#61
I may as well offer my tuppence worth to this mature, balanced and well natured discussion taking place. Yeah but no but yeah but, yahboo sucks! Frivolity aside why does all this vitriol erupt when someone asks a perfectly simple question. I think Pete raises some fair points as do some of the other contributors to this thread. However why the finger pointing and sniping? I think Pete has earned his wings on this forum so give the guy a break. Life is too short to be spent arguing.
Regards Maz
Regards Maz
29 January 2006, 06:20 PM
#62
Originally Posted by pslewis
Building an Engine???? DONE MANY!!!
We are talking the wisdom of Oil choice - NOTHING to do with Engine rebuilds!
Pete
We are talking the wisdom of Oil choice - NOTHING to do with Engine rebuilds!
Pete
I will conceed that in most cases of failure - the oil type was not to the blame. In most cases it was the owner not changing it enough for their usage conditions i.e poor/bad service scheduling.
Last edited by ALi-B; 29 January 2006 at 06:24 PM.
29 January 2006, 06:21 PM
#63
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by banny sti
I may as well offer my tuppence worth to this mature, balanced and well natured discussion taking place. Yeah but no but yeah but, yahboo sucks! Frivolity aside why does all this vitriol erupt when someone asks a perfectly simple question. I think Pete raises some fair points as do some of the other contributors to this thread. However why the finger pointing and sniping? I think Pete has earned his wings on this forum so give the guy a break. Life is too short to be spent arguing.
Regards Maz
Regards Maz
, hope Banny's well.
29 January 2006, 06:45 PM
#65
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by banny sti
Hi James hope you're well. Banny is fine. How is the car going , have you made any further mods?
...off topic a touch
29 January 2006, 07:02 PM
#66
Scooby Regular
Originally Posted by ALi-B
I will conceed that in most cases of failure - the oil type was not to the blame. In most cases it was the owner not changing it enough for their usage conditions i.e poor/bad service scheduling.
And thats the point I try to make ............
Too many on here try and scare owners into buying expensive oils, with tales of engines blowing up and such like.
Calling upon my Technical knowledge and my decades of experience I do not scare easy - certainly not when it comes to Engine Oil on a road car ...... a simpler use of lubricant you couldn't find.
If I was saying that Subaru were wrong in their recommendations, then fine, question my belief ........ I do as Subaru recommend .............. and, you know what? You cannot fail to hit the perfect balance of Cost/Quality if you do as Subaru says.
Waste your money on stuff you don't need by all means - but don't try and justify it - you can't .............. it's just that you have been scared into using it.
Pete
29 January 2006, 07:15 PM
#69
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by pslewis
And thats the point I try to make ............
Too many on here try and scare owners into buying expensive oils, with tales of engines blowing up and such like.
Calling upon my Technical knowledge and my decades of experience I do not scare easy - certainly not when it comes to Engine Oil on a road car ...... a simpler use of lubricant you couldn't find.
If I was saying that Subaru were wrong in their recommendations, then fine, question my belief ........ I do as Subaru recommend .............. and, you know what? You cannot fail to hit the perfect balance of Cost/Quality if you do as Subaru says.
Waste your money on stuff you don't need by all means - but don't try and justify it - you can't .............. it's just that you have been scared into using it.
Pete
Too many on here try and scare owners into buying expensive oils, with tales of engines blowing up and such like.
Calling upon my Technical knowledge and my decades of experience I do not scare easy - certainly not when it comes to Engine Oil on a road car ...... a simpler use of lubricant you couldn't find.
If I was saying that Subaru were wrong in their recommendations, then fine, question my belief ........ I do as Subaru recommend .............. and, you know what? You cannot fail to hit the perfect balance of Cost/Quality if you do as Subaru says.
Waste your money on stuff you don't need by all means - but don't try and justify it - you can't .............. it's just that you have been scared into using it.
Pete
My Autosportif bottom end cost 6k to build. The car gets tracked and as such has a baffled sump and gets constant attention. Would you suggest I skimp on oil because you say so? Ditch the Silkolene and grab some comma from Halfords? I fully except that I may never see the benefits of using a performance oil, it may be the next owner or the owner after that but for an extra £20 quid I buy the piece of mind that my engine has the very best lubicant available.
You're not a car modifier, you have a completely standard 215bhp car who's turbo barely gets used. For you, cheapy, do-the-job oil is fine. Not for me thank you!
29 January 2006, 07:25 PM
#70
Scooby Regular
Originally Posted by JTaylor
Pete,
My Autosportif bottom end cost 6k to build. The car gets tracked and as such has a baffled sump and gets constant attention. Would you suggest I skimp on oil because you say so? Ditch the Silkolene and grab some comma from Halfords? I fully except that I may never see the benefits of using a performance oil, it may be the next owner or the owner after that but for an extra £20 quid I buy the piece of mind that my engine has the very best lubicant available.
You're not a car modifier, you have a completely standard 215bhp car who's turbo barely gets used. For you, cheapy, do-the-job oil is fine. Not for me thank you!
My Autosportif bottom end cost 6k to build. The car gets tracked and as such has a baffled sump and gets constant attention. Would you suggest I skimp on oil because you say so? Ditch the Silkolene and grab some comma from Halfords? I fully except that I may never see the benefits of using a performance oil, it may be the next owner or the owner after that but for an extra £20 quid I buy the piece of mind that my engine has the very best lubicant available.
You're not a car modifier, you have a completely standard 215bhp car who's turbo barely gets used. For you, cheapy, do-the-job oil is fine. Not for me thank you!
Those who ask about Oil on here do not know what Oil, therefore have standard cars - thats where my advice remains rock solid perfectly good advice.
Pete
29 January 2006, 07:35 PM
#71
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: MY96 STI
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pete, may i ask a question?
If you were to cook sausages for your childrens tea, would you....
a) Buy them from nettos, knowing full well that they are full of anus, snout and spinal column?
or......
b) Buy them from the best butchers you can find?
Bearing in mind that your kids only have one body and you love your kids unconditionally?
If you love something or someone then you want the best for them / it.
I love my kids so they get the best food i could possibly afford to buy.
I also love my scoob so i will continue with silkolene pro S.
Thanks for your input but consider it disregarded.
If you were to cook sausages for your childrens tea, would you....
a) Buy them from nettos, knowing full well that they are full of anus, snout and spinal column?
or......
b) Buy them from the best butchers you can find?
Bearing in mind that your kids only have one body and you love your kids unconditionally?
If you love something or someone then you want the best for them / it.
I love my kids so they get the best food i could possibly afford to buy.
I also love my scoob so i will continue with silkolene pro S.
Thanks for your input but consider it disregarded.
29 January 2006, 07:43 PM
#73
Scooby Regular
A better one would be .................
You are going camping and the experienced owners of the Campsite recommend that you buy an ABC Tent as it fulfils ALL the requirements of the Campsite .... these people have spent £MILLIONS researching the tent market.
Then some 'Tent Seller' - who only sells tents (could have been selling Double Glazing last month) and the local 'know-it-all' come up to you and tell you that you need the ABC tent with the DELUXE lining .............. yes, it costs THREE TIMES the price - but, you 'might' need the extra protection (it has been designed for the Antarctic).
Do you buy the one that does the job perfectly well .... or do you spend 3 times the amount on one that is only of any use in the frozen wastes of the Antarctic?? A little 'overkill' for a site in Cornwall on a 2 week Summer holiday.
If your answer is the expensive one then you are either stupid or scare too easily!
Pete
You are going camping and the experienced owners of the Campsite recommend that you buy an ABC Tent as it fulfils ALL the requirements of the Campsite .... these people have spent £MILLIONS researching the tent market.
Then some 'Tent Seller' - who only sells tents (could have been selling Double Glazing last month) and the local 'know-it-all' come up to you and tell you that you need the ABC tent with the DELUXE lining .............. yes, it costs THREE TIMES the price - but, you 'might' need the extra protection (it has been designed for the Antarctic).
Do you buy the one that does the job perfectly well .... or do you spend 3 times the amount on one that is only of any use in the frozen wastes of the Antarctic?? A little 'overkill' for a site in Cornwall on a 2 week Summer holiday.
If your answer is the expensive one then you are either stupid or scare too easily!
Pete
29 January 2006, 08:05 PM
#75
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: One step ahead of the bailiffs :-)
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Easy Life....
Originally Posted by ALi-B
Aha, but would you agree that many qualified "Engineers" haven't even got their hands oily on doing an oil change, yet alone tackle working on an engine.
With the good fortune of working in a fairly well paid industry I dont even bother to get my hands dirty doing menial tasks like oil changes. I find it easier to work Saturday morning and the money I earn pays for someone else to do it. I come home at lunch after doing what I'm good at, and the nice blokie in the garage (doing what he's best at) hands me the keys. We are all happy. Spread the wealth
(and no I dont build anymore either, too busy with other hobbies these days) :-)
Last edited by M1BJR; 29 January 2006 at 08:15 PM.
29 January 2006, 08:14 PM
#77
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: One step ahead of the bailiffs :-)
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LOL @ crap analogy
Originally Posted by Mr Power
Pete, may i ask a question?
If you were to cook sausages for your childrens tea, would you....
a) Buy them from nettos, knowing full well that they are full of anus, snout and spinal column?
or......
b) Buy them from the best butchers you can find?
Bearing in mind that your kids only have one body and you love your kids unconditionally?
If you love something or someone then you want the best for them / it.
I love my kids so they get the best food i could possibly afford to buy.
I also love my scoob so i will continue with silkolene pro S.
Thanks for your input but consider it disregarded.
If you were to cook sausages for your childrens tea, would you....
a) Buy them from nettos, knowing full well that they are full of anus, snout and spinal column?
or......
b) Buy them from the best butchers you can find?
Bearing in mind that your kids only have one body and you love your kids unconditionally?
If you love something or someone then you want the best for them / it.
I love my kids so they get the best food i could possibly afford to buy.
I also love my scoob so i will continue with silkolene pro S.
Thanks for your input but consider it disregarded.
I'd probably eat the crap ones as they are cheaper, easier to find, and fill my stomach even better as I can get more for my money.
29 January 2006, 08:14 PM
#78
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cas Vegas
Posts: 60,269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by pslewis
A better one would be .................
You are going camping and the experienced owners of the Campsite recommend that you buy an ABC Tent as it fulfils ALL the requirements of the Campsite .... these people have spent £MILLIONS researching the tent market.
Then some 'Tent Seller' - who only sells tents (could have been selling Double Glazing last month) and the local 'know-it-all' come up to you and tell you that you need the ABC tent with the DELUXE lining .............. yes, it costs THREE TIMES the price - but, you 'might' need the extra protection (it has been designed for the Antarctic).
Do you buy the one that does the job perfectly well .... or do you spend 3 times the amount on one that is only of any use in the frozen wastes of the Antarctic?? A little 'overkill' for a site in Cornwall on a 2 week Summer holiday.
If your answer is the expensive one then you are either stupid or scare too easily!
Pete
You are going camping and the experienced owners of the Campsite recommend that you buy an ABC Tent as it fulfils ALL the requirements of the Campsite .... these people have spent £MILLIONS researching the tent market.
Then some 'Tent Seller' - who only sells tents (could have been selling Double Glazing last month) and the local 'know-it-all' come up to you and tell you that you need the ABC tent with the DELUXE lining .............. yes, it costs THREE TIMES the price - but, you 'might' need the extra protection (it has been designed for the Antarctic).
Do you buy the one that does the job perfectly well .... or do you spend 3 times the amount on one that is only of any use in the frozen wastes of the Antarctic?? A little 'overkill' for a site in Cornwall on a 2 week Summer holiday.
If your answer is the expensive one then you are either stupid or scare too easily!
Pete
29 January 2006, 08:36 PM
#79
Scooby Regular
But the Bedouin will soon be dead 
http://www.billmon.org/archives/saddam%20bedouin.gif
Like all overpriced Oils
Pete
http://www.billmon.org/archives/saddam%20bedouin.gif
Like all overpriced Oils
Pete
30 January 2006, 03:29 AM
#81
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 625
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pete, I wonder if you have experience of examining Turbo engines after a length of time (say 50,000 miles) after they have been run on cheap, minimum spec oil, and on expensive, high spec oil ?
You seem to comment on the oil matter so often that you must know the subject well - maybe your Chartered Chemical Engineer qualification relates directly to lubrication in turbocharged combustion engines because as you will know this type of engine is actually quite a harsh environment for an oil to do the job that it is designed to : turbine spinning at up to 150,000 rpm lubricated by a thin oil film, high temperatures etc.
I have seen a number of people that ARE experienced car and bike engine tuners and builders quote, on bbs's and printed publications, that they have seen improvements in a number of factors such as power output and oil temperature when an engine is lubricated using oil that exceeds the manufacturers spec when compared to the use of a minimum spec oil.
Now for a standard car that is driven exceedingly gently Comma oil or similar is likely to be fine.
If a turbo-engined car is sometimes driven hard, as a Subaru Turbo might, then a higher-than-manufacturer-specification oil might have a benefit for the long term health of the engine.
Note I say 'might' because I do not know and do not pretend to do so.
You also 'DO NOT KNOW' and therefore should not pretend that you do know unless you can back up your opinions : If you have examined a number of Subaru engines and can tell us that the ones run on cheap oil had no wear and were producing the same power and were therefore as efficient as those run on expensive oil then I think you will maybe treated with greater respect than if you are merely voicing your own opinion that has nothing to back it up.
Saying that Subaru quote a minimum specification that the oil should match is not sufficient : have you spoken to a Subaru engineer and asked whether a more expensive oil that exceeds handbook recommendations will give benefits and did he say there are NO benefits to short and long term engine performance ?
You seem to comment on the oil matter so often that you must know the subject well - maybe your Chartered Chemical Engineer qualification relates directly to lubrication in turbocharged combustion engines because as you will know this type of engine is actually quite a harsh environment for an oil to do the job that it is designed to : turbine spinning at up to 150,000 rpm lubricated by a thin oil film, high temperatures etc.
I have seen a number of people that ARE experienced car and bike engine tuners and builders quote, on bbs's and printed publications, that they have seen improvements in a number of factors such as power output and oil temperature when an engine is lubricated using oil that exceeds the manufacturers spec when compared to the use of a minimum spec oil.
Now for a standard car that is driven exceedingly gently Comma oil or similar is likely to be fine.
If a turbo-engined car is sometimes driven hard, as a Subaru Turbo might, then a higher-than-manufacturer-specification oil might have a benefit for the long term health of the engine.
Note I say 'might' because I do not know and do not pretend to do so.
You also 'DO NOT KNOW' and therefore should not pretend that you do know unless you can back up your opinions : If you have examined a number of Subaru engines and can tell us that the ones run on cheap oil had no wear and were producing the same power and were therefore as efficient as those run on expensive oil then I think you will maybe treated with greater respect than if you are merely voicing your own opinion that has nothing to back it up.
Saying that Subaru quote a minimum specification that the oil should match is not sufficient : have you spoken to a Subaru engineer and asked whether a more expensive oil that exceeds handbook recommendations will give benefits and did he say there are NO benefits to short and long term engine performance ?
30 January 2006, 09:08 AM
#82
Scooby Regular
Originally Posted by andyr
Pete, I wonder if you have experience of examining Turbo engines after a length of time (say 50,000 miles) after they have been run on cheap, minimum spec oil, and on expensive, high spec oil ?
You seem to comment on the oil matter so often that you must know the subject well - maybe your Chartered Chemical Engineer qualification relates directly to lubrication in turbocharged combustion engines because as you will know this type of engine is actually quite a harsh environment for an oil to do the job that it is designed to : turbine spinning at up to 150,000 rpm lubricated by a thin oil film, high temperatures etc.
I have seen a number of people that ARE experienced car and bike engine tuners and builders quote, on bbs's and printed publications, that they have seen improvements in a number of factors such as power output and oil temperature when an engine is lubricated using oil that exceeds the manufacturers spec when compared to the use of a minimum spec oil.
Now for a standard car that is driven exceedingly gently Comma oil or similar is likely to be fine.
If a turbo-engined car is sometimes driven hard, as a Subaru Turbo might, then a higher-than-manufacturer-specification oil might have a benefit for the long term health of the engine.
Note I say 'might' because I do not know and do not pretend to do so.
You also 'DO NOT KNOW' and therefore should not pretend that you do know unless you can back up your opinions : If you have examined a number of Subaru engines and can tell us that the ones run on cheap oil had no wear and were producing the same power and were therefore as efficient as those run on expensive oil then I think you will maybe treated with greater respect than if you are merely voicing your own opinion that has nothing to back it up.
Saying that Subaru quote a minimum specification that the oil should match is not sufficient : have you spoken to a Subaru engineer and asked whether a more expensive oil that exceeds handbook recommendations will give benefits and did he say there are NO benefits to short and long term engine performance ?
You seem to comment on the oil matter so often that you must know the subject well - maybe your Chartered Chemical Engineer qualification relates directly to lubrication in turbocharged combustion engines because as you will know this type of engine is actually quite a harsh environment for an oil to do the job that it is designed to : turbine spinning at up to 150,000 rpm lubricated by a thin oil film, high temperatures etc.
I have seen a number of people that ARE experienced car and bike engine tuners and builders quote, on bbs's and printed publications, that they have seen improvements in a number of factors such as power output and oil temperature when an engine is lubricated using oil that exceeds the manufacturers spec when compared to the use of a minimum spec oil.
Now for a standard car that is driven exceedingly gently Comma oil or similar is likely to be fine.
If a turbo-engined car is sometimes driven hard, as a Subaru Turbo might, then a higher-than-manufacturer-specification oil might have a benefit for the long term health of the engine.
Note I say 'might' because I do not know and do not pretend to do so.
You also 'DO NOT KNOW' and therefore should not pretend that you do know unless you can back up your opinions : If you have examined a number of Subaru engines and can tell us that the ones run on cheap oil had no wear and were producing the same power and were therefore as efficient as those run on expensive oil then I think you will maybe treated with greater respect than if you are merely voicing your own opinion that has nothing to back it up.
Saying that Subaru quote a minimum specification that the oil should match is not sufficient : have you spoken to a Subaru engineer and asked whether a more expensive oil that exceeds handbook recommendations will give benefits and did he say there are NO benefits to short and long term engine performance ?
Yes, I do indeed have extensive experience of a Subaru engine that has lived its life on the Subaru recommended Oils - MINE!! It has covered 65,000miles and still runs as sweet as a nut ............ I fully expect it to get to 120,000miles without major engine work being required. Thats the BEST recommendation there is ... someone who has lived it, breathed it, done it - I think you will agree??
Whats the next questions? Oh, yes, that old chestnut ..... the Impreza engine is sooooooo, soooooooo special that it needs special, ever sooooooo special treatment ..... ooooooooooooooooo ....
I cannot believe that people are still so misguided
Its a frigging engine, a motor car engine, it's VERY simple in design and VERY simple to understand - just because it's got a Turbo bolted to it does NOT mean it needs the standards that are applied to a NASA Space Shuttle Rocket!! There are PLENTY of people out there who WANT you to believe that the Impreza is in some way REALLY EXTRA special and needs special requirements - they tend to be the ones who want to part you from your money!
What was your next quote ... let me see, "Saying that Subaru quote a minimum specification that the oil should match is not sufficient" WTF kind of drugs are you on??
so, me saying that an owner should follow Subarus recommended Oil is 'not enough'?? Not enough for what? YOUR twisted mind? Sorry, you have lost the plot completely Please, put expensive oil in your cars, by all means ....... but don't kid yourself that it needs it - it doesn't!!
You have just been scared by some geeks and salesmen into handing over your hard earned cash ................ you don't understand Engineering, are not Technical, so I can appreciate your concern - but, you need to be warned!
Pete
Last edited by pslewis; 30 January 2006 at 09:11 AM.
30 January 2006, 10:29 AM
#87
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Hunting for my next Impreza!
Posts: 2,388
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think when the searach is back its going to be great... any new people that want to know about oil... all they need to type is the following.
Oil / PSlewis / Oilman / ???? and i think you will get a few hundred pages!
Oil / PSlewis / Oilman / ???? and i think you will get a few hundred pages!
30 January 2006, 10:42 AM
#88
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,977
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
True Graham, unfortunately a lot of it clouded with over the top "scratch your eyes out" banter that the original poster has to put up with.
Constructive argument seems to get lost to persons getting involved in slanging matches, the poor poster must have thought "why have i bothered".
Constructive argument seems to get lost to persons getting involved in slanging matches, the poor poster must have thought "why have i bothered".
30 January 2006, 10:44 AM
#89
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: In a 405 BHP/360 ft/lb P1 with SN superstar Sonic dog at my side!
Posts: 1,959
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by D-an-W
Sorry if this opens up old wounds, but if we can keep away from bitchy comments about each other etc (As other threads I read turned into) I would be most greatful...
TIA...D-an-W
30 January 2006, 10:47 AM
#90
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
with all due respect pslewis your car doesn't, never has and never will operate in extreme condtions - and this simply doesn't mean arctic temperatures - it could simply mean long sustained hard driving over undulating roads, steep hills and tight corners. Plenty of people drive their cars hard and fast making them run very hot and at high rpm's for hours at a time.
Essentially this is like the virgin manager of a sex shop constantly telling hookers to use non-lubricated condoms based on his own solo 'personal usage criteria'
Granted changing the oil every 6000 miles is one solution but as has been said changing an an expensive oil every 6000 miles instead of a cheap oil every 6000 miles probably adds up to about 16 oil changes over 100,000 miles - the cost difference over the lifetime of the engine between a good synthetic and a cheap morris oil being about £200 - really sounds like a very cheap price to remove an element of doubt where there is no hard proof to the contrary other than that of a man whose car never exceeds 2500 rpm and only does 3.2 miles a day...
We are talking about a £20K plus car here...people can spend £200 in a couple of weekends at sainsburys never mind over 10 years of car ownership!
Qualifications are one thing but reality is another...I personally know lots of highly qualified intelligent people who are as dozey as the cows - can't even hang a picture never mind do an oil change...practical knowledge will often overturn speculative theory based on assumption..
Essentially this is like the virgin manager of a sex shop constantly telling hookers to use non-lubricated condoms based on his own solo 'personal usage criteria'
Granted changing the oil every 6000 miles is one solution but as has been said changing an an expensive oil every 6000 miles instead of a cheap oil every 6000 miles probably adds up to about 16 oil changes over 100,000 miles - the cost difference over the lifetime of the engine between a good synthetic and a cheap morris oil being about £200 - really sounds like a very cheap price to remove an element of doubt where there is no hard proof to the contrary other than that of a man whose car never exceeds 2500 rpm and only does 3.2 miles a day...
We are talking about a £20K plus car here...people can spend £200 in a couple of weekends at sainsburys never mind over 10 years of car ownership!
Qualifications are one thing but reality is another...I personally know lots of highly qualified intelligent people who are as dozey as the cows - can't even hang a picture never mind do an oil change...practical knowledge will often overturn speculative theory based on assumption..
Last edited by flynnstudio; 30 January 2006 at 10:57 AM.