TheBigMan

Anyone??

OllyK

I assume this is hypothetical as bonfires are not illegal in the UK. You can be fined under the environmental protection act 1990 if the smoke is prejudicial to health or a nuisance, but that doesn't mean you cannot have a fire.

Around our way, many people do have bonfires regularly and oddly enough, nobody complains - why do you think that is?

TheBigMan

We are not permitted to have bonfires where I live - if it is not national then I can only conclude it is a council policy.

Yes, people do complain, as they should if there is cause for complaint. Ash all over the place, smoke smells - badly!! Clothes on the washing line etc.

Smoke, by definition is "prejudicial to health and is a nuisance".

Just a footnote, you haven't actually answered the question yet....

.

scoobynutta555

Ok even with a cat, a subaru is a higher than average polluting vehicle. Why should I breathe in fumes caused by such a car? Why isn't there a progressive road tax based on engine size with much higher than present taxes on large cc cars? Shouldn't 2 litre turbo cars with poor fuel consumption taxed at 350 quid like they are in Ireland?

Why should I breathe increased pollution from selfish car owners who drive around in gas guzzling cars that pollute me and the rest of the environment? Isn't this a case of passive pollution????? These cars are not necessary at all when more practical alternatives are freely available. Aren't such drivers being selfish and putting their own needs in front of the many who do not drive such vehicles?

Can you see where this is leading? All very well having a good laugh at the expense of smokers now with condecending patronising views, but there may come a day when people are laughing at you when one of your little pleasures in life is curtailed, or good forbid, prohibited. Wait and see when these little black boxes are placed on your cars spying on your speeds, because a majority might be in favour of that too!

TelBoy

Because they don't want to cause a nuisance so suffer in silence. See any parallels there..?

TelBoy

I'd be in favour of a progressive car taxation scheme, way beyond what we have now. And similarly, nobody would have reasonable grounds to complain.

TheBigMan

Indeed, like people do not bother reporting petty crime as they're fully aware it would be dealt with in the usual manner - ergo not at all.

I really believe that Olly, in his own mind, lives in an ideal world. Everything he says is great - in a simplistic world of theory.

....if only it was an ideal world.

scoobynutta555

What about the little black boxes that will soon appear in mainstream cars to check on speeds. They have already appeared in cars now for insurance purposes. If there was a majority in favour of this would you want one in your 0-60 4.6 top speed 155 mph Impreza?

lightning101

The further north you are the cheaper it gets, as we have less cars and worse roads ?

TelBoy

Of course i wouldn't *want* it, Vaughan, but like i say, there wouldn't be reasonable grounds to complain if it was done purely for pollution reasons rather than as a speed enforcement Big Brother scheme.

TheBigMan

It's a case of individuals not "liking" things - but on the whole it is for the common good.

"the good of the many over the good of the few" - banning smoking is a positive action - fact.

If it went to a public poll the same result would occur - so not only is it good, it is also democratic.

Happy days!!

scoobynutta555

Throw in the old chestnut about speed kills and I think there is a very real worry that the majority would want these boxes. After all death by vehicle is an avoidable death just like from smoking , whether you're run down by one or die from pollution

lightning101

But its a road tax, not a car tax, so the local councils who maintain the roads should get a proportional amount, not the DVLA/government.

And why dont bikes and horses pay ROAD tax

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

Horses don't have any money! Really good.

lightning101

Neither do cars, your point ?

popeye

Pubs provide toilets because as anyone with half a brain knows, going to the bog is a civil liberty. They'd probably struggle to get a licence if they didn't. Standing in the pub and having a slash on someone isnt, so us show why stinking the place up and risking people's health is. "Civil liberties" my ****.

Abdabz

18 months till I get banned from my local for smoking in it... ah well it was fun while it lasted

OllyK

I didn't answer your question as the initial premise was false which kind of made it pointless.

If bonfires are banned where you are then obviuosly nobody complains about there being bonfires, there may however, be some that complain they can't have a bonfire. Conversely where I live, we do have bonfires and nobody complains, because we talk to each other and make sure our neighbours won't have washing out and so on before we start the fire. Guess what, it works very well, no ban required, but a just a little compromise on both sides.

OllyK

No - people don't complain because they know when there is going to be a fire becuase people actually talk to each other and they avoid the effects accordingly if it is going to bother them, i.e. move cars, bring washing in.

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

If only smokers were as considerate as that. Why did it have to take a ban to make smokers realise that smoking around food or in restaurants, or in closed in places that not everyone wants to smell their carcinogens, is dirt of the highest order? These people are inconsiderate, plain and simple, hence legislation is required.

Really good.

TelBoy

Nonsense OllyK, and you know it.

TheBigMan

There you go again, ideal world mode - imagine if there was 1 arsehole on your street that "didn't" talk to you and plan his/her bonfire in advance......

Some people still continue to have bonfires where I live, and people complain. the last time it happened a letter was put through the door of the offending party.

Not everybody is capable of "a little compromise" Olly, hence why we have certain guidelines in place, and why what you say is idealistic but also massively simplistic.

Lawas and rules are there for people that are incapable of judging for themselves.

Buckrogers

Much like the Iraq war....

TelBoy

War almost always transcends a democratic "vote". Not comparable on any level.

TheBigMan

This I believe was aimed at Ollyk and not "reallyreallygoodmeat".


A little story:

OllyK: "Oh no, somebody has had a bonfire while we were out. We must have missed the community consideration session where the bonfire was proposed to all residents within a 50 metre radius, oh well it's my fault for putting my washing out. I'll wash it again".

OllyK - slaps self on wrist for being such a silly billy.

Sorry Olly - but get real......

TelBoy

It was, yes. Edited accordingly.

scoobynutta555

Right off to Ireland now. Ta ta.

lozgti

I find scutty criminals far more offensive than smokers.How about the government coming down slightly heavier on something far more offensive.Seeing murderers get'life' of 10 years.

Its a far bigger issue than smoking or do criminals have far more in the way of 'Human Rights' .Tosh.

Sort out things that really really really pee off a society first.Prefer to sit next to a smoker than a thief who should be banged up.

OllyK

Ideal world? It's very much in this world, it's where I live. Is this a hypothetical question again?

Complain? How? to whom? Or do you just whinge and gripe in dark corners and then drop snide anonnymous letters through people's doors?

You're as bad as the religious fundamentalists who think that without the threat of a god hanging over their head there would be anarchy. Yes people can compromise, but you don't want you, you want to ban anything you don't like and force people to live like you. Try China, you may find it more to your liking.

No, they are there for everybody, and those that can't judge for themselves are usually the ones that ignore them anyway.

OllyK

Straw man AND argument from ignorance!