OllyK

And for the 258th time, what was wrong with having entirely smoking and entirely non smoking pubs, free choice for all as to where they go? Those who want smoke free can have it, but those who want to smoke and have a beer can.

I'm just waiting for people to start complining in a couple of months that there are people outside the pub in the smoking area who are actually smoking and affecting the non-smokers right to stand in a smoking area and not have to breath smoke

JamieMacdonald

LOL, what's next? Smoking/non-smoking scooby meets?
Do you also think people should be allowed to smoke on aeroplanes/trains/in cinemas/pop concerts etc. Or do you think the bands should perform twice every night - smoking and non-smoking sets?

OllyK

I take it this means you don't have an answer to the question?

Paul3446

Quote:
And for the 258th time, what was wrong with having entirely smoking and entirely non smoking pubs, free choice for all as to where they go?

Because if I want to go to my local pub and that happens to be an entirely smoking pub, I do not have freedom of choice to go to the pub that I choose, quite simple really. Obviously you can't please everyone, so it's best to please 75% of people rather than 25% of people!

JamieMacdonald

I do have an answer - ban smoking in areas where people are likely to be exposed to concentrated levels of passive smoke. Seperate venues are not always viable. What's your answer then - and I'd remind you of people who live in rural communities who only have one small pub in their village which could possibly only be the size of someone's front room?

Paul3446

Exactly, I have a choice of one pub, unless I drive, so if that's a smoking pub and I go to a different one, I can't drink. Some freedom of choice! I can either drink in a smoky fog, or not drink in a nice clean environment!

OllyK

How many towns or even villages have only 1 pub?

Paul3446

Most villages have only 1 pub. They are shutting down at an alarming rate!

lozgti

As an aside,I don't know why some people are so desperate for a pint.

OllyK

I lived in a small village till recently - 300 houses, 3 pubs - no problem there (and 1 of them was non-smoking anyway).

But even if you want to pedantic about it, in the other 99.99999% of places where there is more than 1 pub, make sure there is a choice for both sets of people.

OllyK

Proof please.

JamieMacdonald

Why does it matter how many? Do people in these areas have any less rights?

Or are you implying that the majority of people have access to more than one pub, then it's ok?

So surely then if the majority of people support a smoking ban - it makes sense!

OllyK

Indeed - maybe these people should be more concerned about the damage their alchohol addiction is doing to them.

OllyK

Please read my post, there are only 2 sentences in it so it shouldn't be too hard. I'll even quote the salient sentence to save you work.

Paul3446

Well my village does, as does the one where my mum lives, that's proof enough for me.

And anyway I don't care coz it's coming and there's nothing you can do about it, except moan and stand outside the pub like a social outcast!

I'll be inside in front of a raging fire, a nice glass of wine in hand, but I'll give you a wave through the window!

Paul3446

Quote:
in the other 99.99999% of places where there is more than 1 pub, make sure there is a choice for both sets of people.
Proof please!

JamieMacdonald

You seem to live in a very simple world! What about things like snooker clubs etc. it simply would not happen and there would be no choice for non-smokers.

Anyway, I'm off down the pub for a ciggie now, see you later!

OllyK

So you want the non smokers to stand outside now??? Make your mind up

OllyK

Oh good grief. I ask a question about pubs and you keep avoiding the question and go on about other places that I wasn't asking about. And for the most part it wouldn't be a problem for places to declare themselves smoking or not based on the requests of their customers.

Foot_Tapper

As a smoker, I think its great.
People will just have a *** outside. I hate smoking in restaurants.

They probably will lose a bit of revenue in tax, but probably not as much as people think.

< government way of thinking on>
FOR BINGE DRINKING - aka the arseholes perfoming on weekend nights
I think they should have a chip n pin ID card.....with maximum of equivalent of 6 pints on a night in pubs/clubs, u cant get served without it being clocked on ur chip n pin.
< government way of thinking off >

But will it stop it , NO

TheBigMan

Yep, Olly - he does have a point there....

It is incorrect to say that 99.9999% of places offer choice - and likewise it is incorrect to say that most villages only have 1 pub. Both statements are equally as invalid as the other.

I do not see why public places should cater for something that is of detriment to all.

Smoking is detrimental to all.

Just because it has been around a long time it doesn't suddenly become "ok". At what point in our history did it become "ok"?!? If we, 'xxxx' hundred years ago decide spitting out chewing gum on the floor was to be some sort of habit - would we now be arguing that a ban on spitting chewing gum on the floor is erroding our civil liberties....?? Surely we would (well some would) - as there is no difference whatsoever.

The difference between that and drinking is that if you choose to drink - you only inflict harm or smell to ones self (in moderation drinking is NOT bad for you anyway - unlike smoking).

Poor Guy

great, wont have to put up with itchy eyes and wheezing after night out.

OllyK

Glad to see you STILL aren't actually reading what I write, and would rather read what you want to. I said where there is more than 1 pub, which is most places, let's be honest, it would be possible to offer a choice, I didn't say there is currently one.

So is banning things!

You're still missing the point, despite defining it rather well a number of posts back.

Hold on - people claim that smoking is a special case as it directly affects others as they cannot avoid its effects, are you now claiming that somebody chewing gum gives you cancer?? Please will state clearly what your arguments are as you seem to pick and choose activities without any real connection.

Well bugger me, you didn't need me to contradict you, you've done it yourself. Please, what is your argument, it seems to meander more than the Amazon? It would seem to have little to do with anything other than your own personal dislikes.

OllyK

And neither I, nor my partner did previously to the ban - funny that isn't it?

TheBigMan

I shall agree to disagree on this matter now as I think we are all going around in circles.

I am happy the ban is in place. To me it shows that democracy via the mandate to govern actually does work.

When all is said, and all is done - democracy wins the day, and after all it is that which any democratic country holds dear.

In any decision comes those who agree - and those who do not agree. There is a massive majority on this point in favour of the ban. I cannot prove this on a national level - however it is an assumption that I am willing to make. Also, MP's represent "US", as such, are themselves a decision making body reflecting the wishes of the majority of the electorate. We can pick holes in government all day long - but that is our system, and it is one that I support as a realistic method to govern.

There are other decisions that happen that I do not agree with - however I accept them if it is the wish of the many over the wish of the few.

If all of your theory was applied in practise, Olly, then the system of government would quite simply crumble.

It's all well and good having good intentions, and applying what you deem to be logic, sense, reasoning and principle to things - however you quite simply cannot apply that to a country of 60 million.

The majority wishes, the democratic process is applied, a decision is made.

Dream Weaver

This weekend was a big one for pubs and eating out, out on Saturday, then christening yesterday followed by curry last night.

As a matter of course, and to prepare for the ban next year I decided to do all my smoking outdoors, along with a few other smokers I managed to cojole outside. I normally smoke outside anyway, but this weekend I did all the time.

The pub we were in was a posh nosh country pub, expensive grub, middle of the sticks, very nice pub that we go to often.

Now, I dont mind smoking outside, and the pub we were in had a covered porch area at the front - it is also mainly an eating place, so most of the smokers were outside.

My observations were as follows:

1. No provision for *** ends - the floor was covered in them, the plant pots were full of them, the porch had them all over. There is no alternative but to put them in the plant pots/floor.

2. Everyone visiting the pub had to walk through the porch where the smokers were, hence taking in vast amounts of passive smoke, much worse than if the smokers had been in a hidden vented smoking room

So, although everyone is in favour of the ban, the gov't will need to enforce external operations as I can gaurantee that all pubs from next year will have clouds of smoke outside and piles of *** ends.

They need to provide sheltered areas away from the entrance, and provision for keeping the area clean. what I think will happen is nothing - the ban will come in, and the outside of pubs will be a mess

Of course, now everyone will moan about *** ends, saying we should take them home in our pockets

TelBoy

DW - go to Ireland, they went through exactly the same transition process, but once smoking *has* to be outside, all those sorts of issues are addressed. You'll see.

SiPie

Yup... same in NZ (admittedly the better climate made smoking outside a bit more pleasant)

Dream Weaver

So how will they be addressed?

What will happen to the pub I went to at the weekend? Will they insist smokers go into the car park, erect a new shelter, have an outside smoking area, provide bins etc etc?

Just trying to get at the logistics of it.

TheBigMan

Like anything in life, with a new decision comes change. Other countries have achieved it, and I have no doubt we will to.

It's amazing how something "impossible" is done when it must be so.