Smoking ban in all pubs and clubs
#211
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Originally Posted by JamieMacdonald
The thing that some people can't seem to grasp is that smoking is different to almost all the other 'rights' mentioned.
You eating a burger DOES NOT directly affect people in your vicinity
You drinking a beer DOES NOT directly affect people in your vicinity
You smoking a cigarette DOES directly affect people in your vicinity
The answer = ban smoking in areas where people are likely to be exposed to concentrated levels of passive smoke.
The only alternative is for the people affected to put up with and suffer the effects of breathing other's smoke, or they do not go to such places - which would not be acceptable IMO.
You eating a burger DOES NOT directly affect people in your vicinity
You drinking a beer DOES NOT directly affect people in your vicinity
You smoking a cigarette DOES directly affect people in your vicinity
The answer = ban smoking in areas where people are likely to be exposed to concentrated levels of passive smoke.
The only alternative is for the people affected to put up with and suffer the effects of breathing other's smoke, or they do not go to such places - which would not be acceptable IMO.
I'm just waiting for people to start complining in a couple of months that there are people outside the pub in the smoking area who are actually smoking and affecting the non-smokers right to stand in a smoking area and not have to breath smoke
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Originally Posted by OllyK
And for the 257th time, what was wrong with having entirely smoking and entirely non smoking pubs, free choice by all as to where they went? That's what living in a free country is about, providing choice. Banning anything that the majority don't like is draconian.
Do you also think people should be allowed to smoke on aeroplanes/trains/in cinemas/pop concerts etc. Or do you think the bands should perform twice every night - smoking and non-smoking sets?
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Originally Posted by JamieMacdonald
LOL, what's next? Smoking/non-smoking scooby meets?
Do you also think people should be allowed to smoke on aeroplanes/trains/in cinemas/pop concerts etc. Or do you think the bands should perform twice every night - smoking and non-smoking sets?
Do you also think people should be allowed to smoke on aeroplanes/trains/in cinemas/pop concerts etc. Or do you think the bands should perform twice every night - smoking and non-smoking sets?
#214
Quote:
And for the 258th time, what was wrong with having entirely smoking and entirely non smoking pubs, free choice for all as to where they go?
Because if I want to go to my local pub and that happens to be an entirely smoking pub, I do not have freedom of choice to go to the pub that I choose, quite simple really. Obviously you can't please everyone, so it's best to please 75% of people rather than 25% of people!
And for the 258th time, what was wrong with having entirely smoking and entirely non smoking pubs, free choice for all as to where they go?
Because if I want to go to my local pub and that happens to be an entirely smoking pub, I do not have freedom of choice to go to the pub that I choose, quite simple really. Obviously you can't please everyone, so it's best to please 75% of people rather than 25% of people!
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I do have an answer - ban smoking in areas where people are likely to be exposed to concentrated levels of passive smoke. Seperate venues are not always viable. What's your answer then - and I'd remind you of people who live in rural communities who only have one small pub in their village which could possibly only be the size of someone's front room?
#216
Exactly, I have a choice of one pub, unless I drive, so if that's a smoking pub and I go to a different one, I can't drink. Some freedom of choice! I can either drink in a smoky fog, or not drink in a nice clean environment!
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Originally Posted by Paul3446
Quote:
And for the 258th time, what was wrong with having entirely smoking and entirely non smoking pubs, free choice for all as to where they go?
Because if I want to go to my local pub and that happens to be an entirely smoking pub, I do not have freedom of choice to go to the pub that I choose, quite simple really. Obviously you can't please everyone, so it's best to please 75% of people rather than 25% of people!
And for the 258th time, what was wrong with having entirely smoking and entirely non smoking pubs, free choice for all as to where they go?
Because if I want to go to my local pub and that happens to be an entirely smoking pub, I do not have freedom of choice to go to the pub that I choose, quite simple really. Obviously you can't please everyone, so it's best to please 75% of people rather than 25% of people!
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Originally Posted by JamieMacdonald
I do have an answer - ban smoking in areas where people are likely to be exposed to concentrated levels of passive smoke. Seperate venues are not always viable. What's your answer then - and I'd remind you of people who live in rural communities who only have one small pub in their village which could possibly only be the size of someone's front room?
But even if you want to pedantic about it, in the other 99.99999% of places where there is more than 1 pub, make sure there is a choice for both sets of people.
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Originally Posted by OllyK
How many towns or even villages have only 1 pub?
Or are you implying that the majority of people have access to more than one pub, then it's ok?
So surely then if the majority of people support a smoking ban - it makes sense!
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Originally Posted by lozgti
As an aside,I don't know why some people are so desperate for a pint.
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Originally Posted by JamieMacdonald
Why does it matter how many? Do people in these areas have any less rights?
Or are you implying that the majority of people have access to more than one pub, then it's ok?
So surely then if the majority of people support a smoking ban - it makes sense!
Or are you implying that the majority of people have access to more than one pub, then it's ok?
So surely then if the majority of people support a smoking ban - it makes sense!
in the other 99.99999% of places where there is more than 1 pub, make sure there is a choice for both sets of people.
#225
Well my village does, as does the one where my mum lives, that's proof enough for me.
And anyway I don't care coz it's coming and there's nothing you can do about it, except moan and stand outside the pub like a social outcast!
I'll be inside in front of a raging fire, a nice glass of wine in hand, but I'll give you a wave through the window!
And anyway I don't care coz it's coming and there's nothing you can do about it, except moan and stand outside the pub like a social outcast!
I'll be inside in front of a raging fire, a nice glass of wine in hand, but I'll give you a wave through the window!
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You seem to live in a very simple world! What about things like snooker clubs etc. it simply would not happen and there would be no choice for non-smokers.
Anyway, I'm off down the pub for a ciggie now, see you later!
Anyway, I'm off down the pub for a ciggie now, see you later!
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Originally Posted by Paul3446
Well my village does, as does the one where my mum lives, that's proof enough for me.
And anyway I don't care coz it's coming and there's nothing you can do about it, except moan and stand outside the pub like a social outcast!
I'll be inside in front of a raging fire, a nice glass of wine in hand, but I'll give you a wave through the window!
And anyway I don't care coz it's coming and there's nothing you can do about it, except moan and stand outside the pub like a social outcast!
I'll be inside in front of a raging fire, a nice glass of wine in hand, but I'll give you a wave through the window!
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Originally Posted by JamieMacdonald
You seem to live in a very simple world! What about things like snooker clubs etc. it simply would not happen and there would be no choice for non-smokers.
Anyway, I'm off down the pub for a ciggie now, see you later!
Anyway, I'm off down the pub for a ciggie now, see you later!
#230
As a smoker, I think its great.
People will just have a *** outside. I hate smoking in restaurants.
They probably will lose a bit of revenue in tax, but probably not as much as people think.
< government way of thinking on>
FOR BINGE DRINKING - aka the arseholes perfoming on weekend nights
I think they should have a chip n pin ID card.....with maximum of equivalent of 6 pints on a night in pubs/clubs, u cant get served without it being clocked on ur chip n pin.
< government way of thinking off >
But will it stop it , NO
People will just have a *** outside. I hate smoking in restaurants.
They probably will lose a bit of revenue in tax, but probably not as much as people think.
< government way of thinking on>
FOR BINGE DRINKING - aka the arseholes perfoming on weekend nights
I think they should have a chip n pin ID card.....with maximum of equivalent of 6 pints on a night in pubs/clubs, u cant get served without it being clocked on ur chip n pin.
< government way of thinking off >
But will it stop it , NO
#231
Originally Posted by Paul3446
Quote:
in the other 99.99999% of places where there is more than 1 pub, make sure there is a choice for both sets of people.
Proof please!
in the other 99.99999% of places where there is more than 1 pub, make sure there is a choice for both sets of people.
Proof please!
It is incorrect to say that 99.9999% of places offer choice - and likewise it is incorrect to say that most villages only have 1 pub. Both statements are equally as invalid as the other.
I do not see why public places should cater for something that is of detriment to all.
Smoking is detrimental to all.
Just because it has been around a long time it doesn't suddenly become "ok". At what point in our history did it become "ok"?!? If we, 'xxxx' hundred years ago decide spitting out chewing gum on the floor was to be some sort of habit - would we now be arguing that a ban on spitting chewing gum on the floor is erroding our civil liberties....?? Surely we would (well some would) - as there is no difference whatsoever.
The difference between that and drinking is that if you choose to drink - you only inflict harm or smell to ones self (in moderation drinking is NOT bad for you anyway - unlike smoking).
Last edited by TheBigMan; 17 February 2006 at 07:32 PM.
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Originally Posted by TheBigMan
Yep, Olly - he does have a point there....
It is incorrect to say that 99.9999% of places offer choice - and likewise it is incorrect to say that most villages only have 1 pub. Both statements are equally as invalid as the other.
It is incorrect to say that 99.9999% of places offer choice - and likewise it is incorrect to say that most villages only have 1 pub. Both statements are equally as invalid as the other.
I do not see why public places should cater for something that is of detriment to all.
Smoking is detrimental to all.
Smoking is detrimental to all.
Just because it has been around a long time it doesn't suddenly become "ok". At what point in our history did it become "ok"?!?
If we, 'xxxx' hundred years ago decide spitting out chewing gum on the floor was to be some sort of habit - would we now be arguing that a ban on spitting chewing gum on the floor is erroding our civil liberties....?? Surely we would (well some would) - as there is no difference whatsoever.
The difference between that and drinking is that if you choose to drink - you only inflict harm or smell to ones self (in moderation drinking is NOT bad for you anyway - unlike smoking).
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Originally Posted by Poor Guy
great, wont have to put up with itchy eyes and wheezing after night out.
#235
I shall agree to disagree on this matter now as I think we are all going around in circles.
I am happy the ban is in place. To me it shows that democracy via the mandate to govern actually does work.
When all is said, and all is done - democracy wins the day, and after all it is that which any democratic country holds dear.
In any decision comes those who agree - and those who do not agree. There is a massive majority on this point in favour of the ban. I cannot prove this on a national level - however it is an assumption that I am willing to make. Also, MP's represent "US", as such, are themselves a decision making body reflecting the wishes of the majority of the electorate. We can pick holes in government all day long - but that is our system, and it is one that I support as a realistic method to govern.
There are other decisions that happen that I do not agree with - however I accept them if it is the wish of the many over the wish of the few.
If all of your theory was applied in practise, Olly, then the system of government would quite simply crumble.
It's all well and good having good intentions, and applying what you deem to be logic, sense, reasoning and principle to things - however you quite simply cannot apply that to a country of 60 million.
The majority wishes, the democratic process is applied, a decision is made.
I am happy the ban is in place. To me it shows that democracy via the mandate to govern actually does work.
When all is said, and all is done - democracy wins the day, and after all it is that which any democratic country holds dear.
In any decision comes those who agree - and those who do not agree. There is a massive majority on this point in favour of the ban. I cannot prove this on a national level - however it is an assumption that I am willing to make. Also, MP's represent "US", as such, are themselves a decision making body reflecting the wishes of the majority of the electorate. We can pick holes in government all day long - but that is our system, and it is one that I support as a realistic method to govern.
There are other decisions that happen that I do not agree with - however I accept them if it is the wish of the many over the wish of the few.
If all of your theory was applied in practise, Olly, then the system of government would quite simply crumble.
It's all well and good having good intentions, and applying what you deem to be logic, sense, reasoning and principle to things - however you quite simply cannot apply that to a country of 60 million.
The majority wishes, the democratic process is applied, a decision is made.
Last edited by TheBigMan; 18 February 2006 at 02:37 PM.
#236
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This weekend was a big one for pubs and eating out, out on Saturday, then christening yesterday followed by curry last night.
As a matter of course, and to prepare for the ban next year I decided to do all my smoking outdoors, along with a few other smokers I managed to cojole outside. I normally smoke outside anyway, but this weekend I did all the time.
The pub we were in was a posh nosh country pub, expensive grub, middle of the sticks, very nice pub that we go to often.
Now, I dont mind smoking outside, and the pub we were in had a covered porch area at the front - it is also mainly an eating place, so most of the smokers were outside.
My observations were as follows:
1. No provision for *** ends - the floor was covered in them, the plant pots were full of them, the porch had them all over. There is no alternative but to put them in the plant pots/floor.
2. Everyone visiting the pub had to walk through the porch where the smokers were, hence taking in vast amounts of passive smoke, much worse than if the smokers had been in a hidden vented smoking room
So, although everyone is in favour of the ban, the gov't will need to enforce external operations as I can gaurantee that all pubs from next year will have clouds of smoke outside and piles of *** ends.
They need to provide sheltered areas away from the entrance, and provision for keeping the area clean. what I think will happen is nothing - the ban will come in, and the outside of pubs will be a mess
Of course, now everyone will moan about *** ends, saying we should take them home in our pockets
As a matter of course, and to prepare for the ban next year I decided to do all my smoking outdoors, along with a few other smokers I managed to cojole outside. I normally smoke outside anyway, but this weekend I did all the time.
The pub we were in was a posh nosh country pub, expensive grub, middle of the sticks, very nice pub that we go to often.
Now, I dont mind smoking outside, and the pub we were in had a covered porch area at the front - it is also mainly an eating place, so most of the smokers were outside.
My observations were as follows:
1. No provision for *** ends - the floor was covered in them, the plant pots were full of them, the porch had them all over. There is no alternative but to put them in the plant pots/floor.
2. Everyone visiting the pub had to walk through the porch where the smokers were, hence taking in vast amounts of passive smoke, much worse than if the smokers had been in a hidden vented smoking room
So, although everyone is in favour of the ban, the gov't will need to enforce external operations as I can gaurantee that all pubs from next year will have clouds of smoke outside and piles of *** ends.
They need to provide sheltered areas away from the entrance, and provision for keeping the area clean. what I think will happen is nothing - the ban will come in, and the outside of pubs will be a mess
Of course, now everyone will moan about *** ends, saying we should take them home in our pockets
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DW - go to Ireland, they went through exactly the same transition process, but once smoking *has* to be outside, all those sorts of issues are addressed. You'll see.
#238
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DW - go to Ireland, they went through exactly the same transition process, but once smoking *has* to be outside, all those sorts of issues are addressed. You'll see.
#239
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So how will they be addressed?
What will happen to the pub I went to at the weekend? Will they insist smokers go into the car park, erect a new shelter, have an outside smoking area, provide bins etc etc?
Just trying to get at the logistics of it.
What will happen to the pub I went to at the weekend? Will they insist smokers go into the car park, erect a new shelter, have an outside smoking area, provide bins etc etc?
Just trying to get at the logistics of it.
#240
Originally Posted by Dream Weaver
So how will they be addressed?
What will happen to the pub I went to at the weekend? Will they insist smokers go into the car park, erect a new shelter, have an outside smoking area, provide bins etc etc?
Just trying to get at the logistics of it.
What will happen to the pub I went to at the weekend? Will they insist smokers go into the car park, erect a new shelter, have an outside smoking area, provide bins etc etc?
Just trying to get at the logistics of it.
It's amazing how something "impossible" is done when it must be so.