bartmanuk

well, i got a letter back from the central ticket office manager, thanking me for my letter explaining why i consider that the fixed penalty ticket should not be enforced. which i found very funny indeed because my letter did not say this, my letter was requesting copies of evidence they intend using against me in court. she also says in her letter that the ticket can only be dealt with in one of two ways, either by paying it or by applying for a court hearing.
so in my letter back i explained that i never once said the ticket should not be enforced, and also that i know of other cases where FPN's had been cancelled,and that I am currently exploring the possibility that your constabulary is guilty of demanding “money with menace”, arguably a breach of Human Rights and unlawful pressure through this “pay now and save yourself harassment later” position.

lets see what they think of that then.

BM

hedgehog

You should note that there now appears to be a situation where under the European Communities Act 1972 anyone facing a criminal charge is entitled to a ruling from the European Court of Justice that the charge complies with the European Convention of Human Rights - BEFORE the trial.

I would imagine this has plenty of scope for added entertainment in view of your approach.

Forcing you into making a false statement on the NIP is actually perverting the course of justice and entrapment into making a false statement by the way, it might be worth mentioning that in passing :-)

r32

Under the Criminal Justice Act they have to provide you with the evidence (without being asked) at least 7 days before any hearing. In general this is not happening, particularly for speeding issues. If they dont provide the evidence then the prosecution is not lawfull.

Daryl

The question is, did the officer make an entry in his notebook and did you read and sign it?

The reason I ask, is because unless the officer made a note of your conversation regarding video evidence, it will be your word against his. He will probably deny that any such conversation ever took place and say that he just saw you on the phone and his video camera was not pointing at you.

As far as the magistrates are concerned, if he says you were on the phone they will tend to believe him and you will likely be found guilty.

Of course, you could always get him in the witness box and discredit his testimony by reminding him of the conversation, which could be fun! No one like to perjure themselves, not even a police officer

OllyK

Just be aware, that if there is video, that shows your hand off the wheel and you leaning on it but no phone, they may well just do you for driving without due care!!

bartmanuk

this is for a FPN and not a NIP, dont know if that makes a difference.

bartmanuk

i did put in my 1st letter about the criminal justice act but i didnt know about the without asking bit, so cheer r32

BM

bartmanuk

no entry in note book, nor did i sign anything, but the bit about getting him in the witness box sounds like fun lol

cheers daryl

BM

bartmanuk

surely taking one hand off the wheel whilst driving in a straight line on a near empty motorway in the 1st lane does not constitute as driving without due care;(how would we change gear???lol)


BM

Dream Weaver

Its a great law, nothing more annoying than idiots talking on phones.

I agree to using my mobile whilst driving back in the 90's when I had a long motorway drive everday (80 miles each way) but after a while I realised that I was driving the route and not even noticing that i'd taken a usual turn off, and after 30 minutes "chatting" i'd sometimes not even know where i'd got to.

After that I stopped using the mobile while driving, and haven't done since back in 97 now, and I still wont use it to this day while driving, it just affects your concentration too much, even using hands free kits.

Your comparison to smoking however is ridiculous, there is no effect from smoking whilst driving except moving one hand, just like opening a window or turning your stereo up.

scott8629

But what if you drop red hot ash onto yourself?

Smoking should be banned whilst driving

Dream Weaver

You what, red hot ash!!

I dont smoke whilst driving now, dont like my cars stinking of ****, but for the 10 years i did smoke whilst driving that never happened to me.

I suppose we should ban listening to music whilst driving as well should we in case you need to mess with the stereo controls?

hedgehog

Don't joke, some of the anti-motoring lobby have discussed this as a possible tactic and they have hinted at it in some press reports/releases. No stereos or other distractions, 40mph speed limit, speed bumps every 10 yards. Motoring has to be made as unpleasant as possible so that people give up doing it of their "own free will" because they are showing considerable reluctance to give up just because some green nutter Stalinist says they should.

OllyK

You don't change gear by leaning your head on your hand. Unless you are changing gear or performing some other such function then you hands should both be on the wheel. If a copper is in such a mood, and you have 1 hand of the wheel for an extended period he could claim you were not in full control of the vehicle. He'd have to be a bit of an **** or see you wobbling about, but you could get done.

Dracoro

I used to smoke years ago and accidentally dropped a cig between my legs (thew *** out of sunroof and it came back in!) and almost drove into the car coming the other way. Never smoked in car since then!

b4 going to court, get proof (phone bill) that you weren't making or receiving a call at the time of the alledged offence.

Tiggs

who on earth drives along resting their head on their hand? pull over and have a coffee....dont drive along like a dozy idiot.

phone fine should be Ł30.....driving without the ability to old your head up with your neck should be Ł300

bartmanuk

hi everyone, here is a long awaited update to this story; i cant believe that this has gone on for so long,(but i suppose thats down to our judicial system); in june they finally summonsed me to court on 31st july for driving whilst using a mobile and the new charge of driver not in proper control of vehicle, and to my disbelief the summons and the statement of facts said that i was driving the police car .
but, just three days later i received a letter from the police, stating that the statement of facts on the summons was wrong, and they had sent a new one, which also said i was driving the police car this time i had to laugh. then, the following day i received copies of all evidence they intended to rely on in court, and would you believe it all that was there was the two witness statements from the two officers, NO VIDEO EVIDENCE!!! not even any phone records from the phone company.
next i got a court order on 3rd august to tell me the case had been adjourned to the 21st august (so i could enter a plea). weird!! i thought i had done that already.
then on the 25th august another court order to tell me the case had been adjourned to 19th september (for a date to be set).
i then got a letter to say the date had been set for 14th february, but the CPS are asking to vacate this date due to their witnesses being unable to attend.(laughable me thinks)
so the new date of 2nd march 2007 was set and the case went ahead as planned (well sort of), i arrived at the court, only to be called into an interview room by the magistrate who says there are a few problems with the case: firstly the summons is wrong, which i told him i knew.
then he tells me that there is a lack of evidence, as the video evidence
had been destroyed by mistake(or so he had been told by the police
officers).

so the the charge of driving whilst using a mobile phone-case dismissed.
the charge of driver not in proper control of vehicle-case dismissed.

so thanks to the people who supported me in this, justice was done in the end, it only took 14 months and i dread to think how much of tax payers money was wasted.
as for those muppets who didnt have anything decent to say like Tiggs and OllyK you can kiss my hairy ar*e, you need to remember this is a community for people with the same interest, we need to stick together a bit more when the old bill try to shaft us for something we havent done.

cheers again BM

Pedro_79

Well I'm glad it all turned out alright for you in the end.

What is really depressing is how much this farce highlights the absolute muppet show of a system in this country. I dread to think how many genuine criminals have got off the hook due to incompetent police officers and administrative errors.

Brendan Hughes

Who did they work for, the US Air Force?

SJ_Skyline

Good result

Did you get an apology from them for wasting your time?

scoobynutta555

Good result

Just shows what a complete **** the system is.

RUDDY

that is excelent mate well done!
just goes to show if you dont stand up for your self no one will and a police officer, who we are ment to trust entirley, respect and feel safe around will pull your pants down just like a robbing sales man would! just so he gets his bonus!
all you people who say "well their protecting us from idiots like you who use the phone" are wrong! they are robbing idiots like you and have you were they want ya!
we would be soo ****ed if people didnt kick up a fuss like BM

sbk1972

Bartmanuk, well done matey. Just read through the various replies and I agree with what you did. It seems that nowadays people are scared into taking the points / fine, by the threat of bigger punishments if it escalates to court, even if you know you havent done anything wrong.

Like you, I am someone that will fight when right, so thumbs up matey !!! :-)

SBK

john_s

iTrader: (1)

Nice one.

John.

Brit_in_Japan

I salute you!

If one is in the right then I think it's one's duty to fight it all the way. I would have done exactly the same if I was in your position.

Diesel

Excellent result. You were willing to go there and look the beak in the eye - TOP MAN. We motorists need more like you!

Have you submitted your application for costs - the icing on the cake as we 'wont lay down' lawyers put it

D

PS Well after your original post I had a copper swear blind I was on the blower at 3am last year. I TOTALLY wasnt but it was a bit of a struggle convincing him at the time - even dangling my handsfree under his nose! Thank God I didnt get this same hassle as Vodafone was my witness!

robby

did you claim your expenses and compo for stress

wonder what would happen if every motorist contested every charge (speeding, phone, etc) - the courts would give up

well done

Dracoro

Not quite. They would just deal with as many as they had resources to deal with. Govt would fund (guess from where ) more courts, magistrates etc. Granted a lot of cases would just get nowhere, it'd be luck of the draw whether your case would end up in court. However, the govt would have to rethink the whole thing as it's just not practical to have every case heard in court.

Dazza01

Indeed you can but you can also delete said info either in full or just the one that relates to the time the officer says your were on it.

Leslie

I am very glad that it all turned out well for you in the end, even if it was due to total incompetence and what sounds suspiciously like a very convenient loss of the so called evidence.

Congratutlions on standing up for yourself. as dangerous as it actually is to use a mobile phone while driving, you should never have been falsely accused purely on supposition by that copper. It is important that they are not allowed to get away with it in such circumstances.

Les