TD05 ands gearboxes... concerns
12 March 2006, 06:57 PM
#61
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Originally Posted by scooby_matt
How much were the bits mate?
I'm starting to consider changing before it goes
I'm starting to consider changing before it goes
him above did mine
zen performance
in on a thursday evening and collected friday afternoon
PM him for a price bud
12 March 2006, 08:20 PM
#62
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Originally Posted by Zen Performance
Sti box seems stronger even from 97 onwards. Uk boxes are not paticularly strong.
Paul
Paul
12 March 2006, 09:37 PM
#63
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Just to add my 2p worth....
Ran my UK Turbo for 140000 miles on the original box. Then....
After several power hikes, finally went for the last mods (for that car) and the box went 6 weeks after the remap.
'advised' that it would be the mileage, not the power and it was replaced for another UK 5 speed. 10 weeks later, pop again !!!!
RR'd whilst on the second box showed 325bhp and 300lbs/ft on ScoobyClinic RR.
Out of interest, it wasn't a matter of being 'harsh'. I didn't crunch gears, and it was always serviced before time (in fact the second box didn't make it to the first service !).
On both occassions, third exploded whilst coming into the top torque range whilst overtaking - so no actual gear change involved. Also, the bits drop into the box and you lose 1st and 2nd on the selector - in both cases I drove the 40 miles home in 4th....
Sold the car after the second one - as I couldn't afford a six-speeder by then. (and still currently impreza-less)
My advice - Get a six speed (or maybe an sti 5 speed) as soon as you can, once you've crossed the 300lbs/ft threshold - and certainly don't replace a broken UK 5 speed for another one...(at this power level).
I have to say that I was advised my JB that I'd probably need a new box when discussing the mods with him and he was right - I just wish I'd listened to him and my gut feel instead of the advice given to me by the place who fitted the 5 speed. They're a reputable place and popular on here - but I guess everyone makes a slip occasionally....
Mark
Ran my UK Turbo for 140000 miles on the original box. Then....
After several power hikes, finally went for the last mods (for that car) and the box went 6 weeks after the remap.
'advised' that it would be the mileage, not the power and it was replaced for another UK 5 speed. 10 weeks later, pop again !!!!
RR'd whilst on the second box showed 325bhp and 300lbs/ft on ScoobyClinic RR.
Out of interest, it wasn't a matter of being 'harsh'. I didn't crunch gears, and it was always serviced before time (in fact the second box didn't make it to the first service !).
On both occassions, third exploded whilst coming into the top torque range whilst overtaking - so no actual gear change involved. Also, the bits drop into the box and you lose 1st and 2nd on the selector - in both cases I drove the 40 miles home in 4th....
Sold the car after the second one - as I couldn't afford a six-speeder by then. (and still currently impreza-less)
My advice - Get a six speed (or maybe an sti 5 speed) as soon as you can, once you've crossed the 300lbs/ft threshold - and certainly don't replace a broken UK 5 speed for another one...(at this power level).
I have to say that I was advised my JB that I'd probably need a new box when discussing the mods with him and he was right - I just wish I'd listened to him and my gut feel instead of the advice given to me by the place who fitted the 5 speed. They're a reputable place and popular on here - but I guess everyone makes a slip occasionally....
Mark
13 March 2006, 07:51 AM
#64
The box failures i have seen personally are:
during a hill climb run, 3rd broke. Car ran 350 x 350 engine, Sti v3 box and slick tyres.
During getting the car off a trailer! Car was a Legacy with stock box and a 2.2 litre 335 x 350 engine. It now has an Sti 6 speeder.
Graham.
during a hill climb run, 3rd broke. Car ran 350 x 350 engine, Sti v3 box and slick tyres.
During getting the car off a trailer! Car was a Legacy with stock box and a 2.2 litre 335 x 350 engine. It now has an Sti 6 speeder.
Graham.
13 March 2006, 11:02 AM
#65
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For those thinking about crossing the 300ftlbs mark on a UK car, how much would an upgrade to an Sti 5 speed gearbox cost....approximately.
Ns04
Ns04
13 March 2006, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Jay m A
API do an exchange basis, have a word with them
I just thought having a few figures from people who've been there might be a useful contribution to the thread. It would appear that if you want over 300 lbs ft torque on a UK car, it's a bit of a gearbox lottery and you should budget for a new replacement....question is, how much? 
Ns04
13 March 2006, 01:00 PM
#68
Good V4 and later box = about £600 + diff for the rear + fitting (no joke of a job)
Good 6 Speeder and diff = about £1600 + fitting (even harder than above)
Brilliant 5 speeder from Zen Performance about £3000 when done + fitting but no rear diff to do.
Hope that generalisation helps.
Graham
Good 6 Speeder and diff = about £1600 + fitting (even harder than above)
Brilliant 5 speeder from Zen Performance about £3000 when done + fitting but no rear diff to do.
Hope that generalisation helps.
Graham
13 March 2006, 01:20 PM
#69
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Originally Posted by 911
Good V4 and later box = about £600 + diff for the rear + fitting (no joke of a job)
Good 6 Speeder and diff = about £1600 + fitting (even harder than above)
Brilliant 5 speeder from Zen Performance about £3000 when done + fitting but no rear diff to do.
Hope that generalisation helps.
Graham
Good 6 Speeder and diff = about £1600 + fitting (even harder than above)
Brilliant 5 speeder from Zen Performance about £3000 when done + fitting but no rear diff to do.
Hope that generalisation helps.
Graham
13 March 2006, 06:31 PM
#70
It's some big problem!
I know someone who recently bought a '6 Speeder Kit' for £1450, so things can be a bit easier at times, but that is the going rate (supply and demand)
Graham
I know someone who recently bought a '6 Speeder Kit' for £1450, so things can be a bit easier at times, but that is the going rate (supply and demand)
Graham
13 March 2006, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 911
It's some big problem!
I know someone who recently bought a '6 Speeder Kit' for £1450, so things can be a bit easier at times, but that is the going rate (supply and demand)
Graham
I know someone who recently bought a '6 Speeder Kit' for £1450, so things can be a bit easier at times, but that is the going rate (supply and demand)
Graham
I.e, same king of ratio's, just stronger?
13 March 2006, 08:28 PM
#72
No.
It is a common belief that the Sti boxes are stronger than the rest (classic boxes).
The man who really knows is David at www.apiengines.com or Paul at Zen Performance.
When you see the stock gearset against the Zen PPG you will see why they don't break.....
If there was a simple upgrade for the classic box, EVERYONE would know about it!
Graham
It is a common belief that the Sti boxes are stronger than the rest (classic boxes).
The man who really knows is David at www.apiengines.com or Paul at Zen Performance.
When you see the stock gearset against the Zen PPG you will see why they don't break.....
If there was a simple upgrade for the classic box, EVERYONE would know about it!
Graham
13 March 2006, 09:02 PM
#73
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Originally Posted by 911
No.
It is a common belief that the Sti boxes are stronger than the rest (classic boxes).
The man who really knows is David at www.apiengines.com or Paul at Zen Performance.
When you see the stock gearset against the Zen PPG you will see why they don't break.....
If there was a simple upgrade for the classic box, EVERYONE would know about it!
Graham
It is a common belief that the Sti boxes are stronger than the rest (classic boxes).
The man who really knows is David at www.apiengines.com or Paul at Zen Performance.
When you see the stock gearset against the Zen PPG you will see why they don't break.....
If there was a simple upgrade for the classic box, EVERYONE would know about it!
Graham
Is the PPG setup 5, or 6 speed?
I don't really want longer ratio's than what i've got now
15 March 2006, 09:17 PM
#76
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Originally Posted by 911
Talk to Paul at Zen for the details, just about everyone ends up there, but I think it is 5 speeds to a 5 speed housing, and the stock 5th is used for peace and quiet.
Graham
Graham
stock 5th and the PPG replace 1,2,3,4 in pairs 1+2 , 3+4
bob's as in bob dah mixed his iirc ppg for 1+2 and par for 3+4
or was it the other way around lol
also the ppg fitted from zen is less than 3k , , about 2.5 IIRC but don't quote me on that , i know it's alot cheaper if you take him just the box instead of the whole car
16 March 2006, 12:00 AM
#77
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PPG 5 speed ratios are slightly shorter than UK ratios, but only slightly.
Most of the details you should want to know are in my project thread 'slow evolution' The kit is a 1-4 gear replacement, it uses the standard 5th for quiet motorway cruising. The kit comes in two varietys helical and straight cut gears both using the standard syncros. On top of the price of the cogs you need to budget for any new syncros that are worn out, you will def need a new 3rd gear syncro as the ppg kit uses the 4th gear syncro on 3rd too.
Plus fluids gaskets, and any cleaning / labour that needs to be done if the box is broken to begin with.
Mine came in at just over three grand, but there were a few missing / broken bits in the donor box and i had the billet forks and a new front helical diff.
Dan.
Most of the details you should want to know are in my project thread 'slow evolution' The kit is a 1-4 gear replacement, it uses the standard 5th for quiet motorway cruising. The kit comes in two varietys helical and straight cut gears both using the standard syncros. On top of the price of the cogs you need to budget for any new syncros that are worn out, you will def need a new 3rd gear syncro as the ppg kit uses the 4th gear syncro on 3rd too.
Plus fluids gaskets, and any cleaning / labour that needs to be done if the box is broken to begin with.
Mine came in at just over three grand, but there were a few missing / broken bits in the donor box and i had the billet forks and a new front helical diff.
Dan.
16 March 2006, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by rigga
are jap spec wrx gearboxes different to uk ones apart from the ratio's used? or are they just as fragile?
16 March 2006, 06:18 PM
#80
I feel they are all about the same, the Sti's get better heat traetment/stress relieving and that's about it.
A motorway gearbox will last longer than a drag raced road car.
A happy bullit-proof compromise must be the UK 6 speeder?
Dan:
The £3K did not inc the front diff surely?
Graham
A motorway gearbox will last longer than a drag raced road car.
A happy bullit-proof compromise must be the UK 6 speeder?
Dan:
The £3K did not inc the front diff surely?
Graham
17 March 2006, 12:11 PM
#83
Here is a link from ppg website, have a listen to this straight cut dog box, I hope the helical is much quieter. Big file so need broadband
http://www.ppgearbox.com.au/images/content/SCDOG.wmv
Andy
http://www.ppgearbox.com.au/images/content/SCDOG.wmv
Andy
17 March 2006, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by scooby_matt
If you don't mind me asking, what was the total cost of the gearbox, fitted.
Was it an uprated box of any kind?
Was it an uprated box of any kind?
Worked out at £880 all in
18 March 2006, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Zen Performance
Dazzas box with OE forks was done for aroung £2650 all inc, including removing and refitting the box to the car.
i was close
paul showed me the standard 3rd gear cog and the ppg version
i can certainly see how these are 'virtually' indestructable
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