GRIFF007

remind me - Richsrd is TSL or Powerstation?

What is next tstage of power upgrading they can offer - any sensible upgrade give 390 lb ft without increased lag?

Gutmann pug

Richard was TSL, not sure about now though.

Gary

Gutmann pug

No

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

[QUOTE=BigAl024]To go higher Spec than standard PPP(305bhp), do you need to upgrade the Intercooler?

Al[/QUOTE

No, you don't. However, money no object, it has to be a safety issue as keeping the charge temperatures down will allow more boost and/or ignition with safety. Possibly above 350 - 360bhp the need for better charge cooling or water injection starts to become sensible.
I'm off to TSL on Monday for a re-map on my STi PPP I'm prepared to change one or two exhaust parts if it helps but don't want much more noise - that's a must!
JohnD

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

All this power on a VF35??? That is impressive!

F

GRIFF007

[QUOTE=JohnD]hi let us know what the improvement v cost is like

edmy716

ohh yeess

u just need to choose correct mapper and research ur mods

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

I'll do that.

JohnD

jay knowles

[quote=JohnD]John who is doing the mapping on your car,is it Richard.JASON

davedipster

What are the limits of the VF35 (03sti) cos I thought it was a reliable 320hp? i.e WR1 or that's what prodrive quoted a while back.

dipster

cw42

iTrader: (1)

read from post #42 for the info on my cars upgrades at powerstation and subsequent rolling road figures at both powerstation themselves then prosport last month.
Next job on the list is braided hoses and uprated pads and ast coilovers

chris.

edmy716

whats that link??

cant find

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

I'll do that, thanks for the info. Why didn't I think of that!

F

cw42

iTrader: (1)

Doh! Fixed it, sorry

Gutmann pug

Floyd you naughty boy

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

[QUOTE=jay knowles]Don't know - maybe it all depends on who pops in on Monday morning?

JohnD

reano

iTrader: (2)

If you buy Japanese Performance Issue 63 'current' it has a car feature for wrc350

WRC-T2

Should you wish to advertise, please contact webmaster@scoobynet.co.uk

p1doc

i take it these are on your dyno,any other dyno results?
do you recommend vf35 for >350bhp and whatwarranty do you give?
martin

53

iTrader: (41)

"WRC350 pack on PPP @ £1595"


Allan, is there a similar reduction in price if you wanted to upgrade your MY03 WRX PPP to the WRC320?

aaronhowe

I've seen a dyno graph from a WRC "350/350" package on independant rollers and I can tell you what it isn't and thats 350/350

The torque spiked massively at about 4k rpm to 340lbs to get a peak torque figure for a split second and then dropped down to a normal 300 - 310lbs. There was also a massive flat spot at about 5krpm where timing was taken out.
This to me is not a true 350/350 package

WRC-T2

Aaron
If you would PM me the details of the car, the rollers in question and the fuel being used, I would like to investigate this further.

And how would you describe 350 BHP & 350Lb-ft how in your opinion should the power & torque be delivered ?

Allan

WRC-T2

You will have mail in a minute

Allan

WRC-T2

Sammyh: Could you please re-instate the informative parts of the post that explained all the misconceptions/questions. Leave out the bits you feel are advertising

Ta

Allan

Plasticman

Allan,

I have also been interested in your sti ppp350 package as it seemed very minor mods for a lot of gain in bhp & torque.

Any chance of a group buy price to persuade those of us musing over it and scrabbling together the necessary ?

Chrs, Malc

N*UFO

No chance mate, the mods on this site really are a law onto themselves!
If your face fits as they say............

aaronhowe

The rollers were Surrey Rolling Road Dyno Dynamics and the fuel was optimax. I would have to speak to the owner of the car to find out if they want me to mention whos car it is.

To me a true 350/350 package should provide a smooth power curve up to the redline providing 350bhp and I would expect the torque to hold close to 350lbs for about 2krpm starting at the point the turbo spooled fully.
A sudden peak in torque to 350lbs for 200rpm then a drop to 300lbs is not a true 350lb car in my eyes. Would you agree?

WRC-T2

Aaron
On a PPP car our 350 pack assumes the car is 305 to start with, so in essence it is a plus 50 pack. Therefor if you start with 290 you will end up with 340. We are not magicians and cannot make up for deficiencies. As for torque, to be able to hold peak torque at or above 350 lb-ft on a PPP car we would need to change more components, thus pushing up the price. There would be no ignition in the car at all anywhere near peak torque in order to avoid detonation, so the car would feel lifeless. Modifications are a compromise. We still only have a 2000cc car fitted with the same size turbo and standard diameter turbo. So if we altered that equation we could possibly achieve what you describe.

As for the Rolling Road in question, it is the same make as ours but does not enjoy the same airflow as we do. On a Subaru air flow is critical and the cars own ECU will adjust the advance multiplier to compensate for heat soak. So any flattening of a power curve will be down to the car protecting itself.
Look at the graphs from when we modded the car and the graphs from SRR and compare the data on Baro Press, Air Temp, Inlet Temp, Relative Humidity etc this will give you some idea of why the curves were different.

Many Thanks
Allan

aaronhowe

The car in question was not a ppp to 350 conversion it was a full 350 package and on the day the temperature was just above freezing with a 4ft diameter fan producing around 60mph airflow.

I'm sure you are fully aware though that the Dyno Dynamics rolling road compensates for any atmospheric differences to produce a fairly accurate flywheel figure.

As I said above they had a huge 4ft diameter fan on the rr day and the temp was just above freezing. The car was also running optimax with millers octane booster +2RON so i would find it highly unlikely that the car was pulling timing unless there was something very wrong with the map in the first place. None of the other cars had any problems with heat soak and there was a good 20 cars running that day.

I'm slightly confused by this statement. I understand that you would need more components to run 350lb-ft of torque for more than a millisecond and that this would raise the costs but that is what people are expecting when they buy a 350/350 package. I for one would be much happier paying a slight premium for having a true 350 package than one that has been cleverly mapped to provide a quick peak. My car currently runs 390hp/330lb-ft of torque but that 330lbs goes from 4000rpm to 6000rpm which is a usable duration.
As for having no ignition in the car, how would you get 350lbs of torque if you don't have any timing in the car. Surely its the timing advance which creates the power.

As you are aware the knock sensor on the 04 impreza only reads until about 5500rpm. It will then judge what level of ignition retard to use for the duration of the rev limit by using its last reading. If it has picked up any det just before cut off it will pull timing thus reducing the peak power figure.
I have seen maps in the past that are mapped to pull timing just before knock sensor cut off so as to get a higher peak power figure at the expense of creating a nasty flat spot just when you want the power.

wrct

Aaron,

I'm unaware of any unhappy WRC350 customers, so if your 'friend' would like to contact me I'd be more than willing to discuss any issues.

If you are referring to a recent Surrey Rolling Road event, I think you'll find a number of people dis-satisfied with their figures. One runner even quoted:
I'd also like to refresh your memory when your car was run in standard trim on that dyno you quoted:
I can attest that standard cars make standard bhp on our dyno, not a little bit more - or a little bit less, but normally within 1% of Superflow engine dyno or manufacturer stated bhp figures. This is probably one of the reasons EVO magazine uses WRC Technologies, not any of the other alternatives.

I see your car ran 380 on their rollers, does that mean that your current claims are invalid?
On a reliable, accurate, repeatable dyno the WRC350 package delivers the results (as do all of our other packages). According to figures from ECUTEK UK, in 2005 WRC Technologies Ltd. were the largest ECUTEK dealers outside of Prodrive UK. So while we appreciate your mapping tips, we've got a pretty good idea of how the software works.

I just need to clarify a couple of points. Buying a Dyno Dynamics dyno does not instantly make the figures accurate. The dyno should be installed in a cell, with a weather station installed to monitor the ambient conditions, so the correct correction factors are used. I know Charlie has the dyno in a cell, with a weather station. However, a significant part of the equation is adequate cell airflow. I'm not sure of the specs of the foot diameter fan used, but if the actual airflow is less than 20,000cfm then you will struggle to get reliable, repeatable results with a top mount. The WRC cell has a 22,000cfm fan at the front, and an additional 124,000cfm of extraction in the cell. We do a room change every 3.2 seconds. I'm guessing all the cars had two runs within 1bhp? With adeqaute airflow this should not be a problem. In fuel testing for BP done on the rollers we need 7 runs within 1bhp within 5 minutes in order to produce statistically determinate results - and its pretty straight forward.

I've been using DD products since 1997, and commisioned and ran the first UK DD dyno for a couple of years, so we are familiar with the product.

Aaron, this is not meant to be a personal attack, I just need to clarify a number of statements made earlier. As usual its all in the details, and a short one line statement saying a package does or doesn't work may not answer all the questions. I'm sure you'd rather see a couple of cars go elsewhere when your car is labelled as a GRD STi.

Chris