He must really hate her!
07 March 2006, 08:49 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by Clarebabes
It's why your girlfriend, if you have one, will be more "up for it" around days 12-16 of her cycle. Peak of fertility and coincides with ovulation.
but seriously, how can she have the final decision on this ? She is making the decision for him to be a dad without him wanting to be. That is not fair and irresponsible. She cant expect him to carry on knowing he has a kid out there. If he doesnt want one he wont want to be emotionally attached to that thought. She is being selfish IMO, they both gave their consent when they were together but its fair enough that when they split up one can withdraw such consent.
Its like someone stealing your sperm while your asleep (a tough challenge) and saying 'Im going to have your kid and you cant stop me'.
07 March 2006, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by paul-s
Its like someone stealing your sperm while your asleep (a tough challenge) and saying 'Im going to have your kid and you cant stop me'.
BTW, there is a difference between being a Dad and being the biological father to a child.
07 March 2006, 08:57 PM
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Paul-S its like you not wearing a condom, me sleeping with you, me getting pregnant, me not telling you, me leaving you, me turning up 9 months later with our baby
Naff all you can do or say about it apart from start sending your cash to the CSA oh and i dont even have to let you have contact with the child.
Lifes a b1tch and women have the final say!
(im not really going to do all that to you)
Naff all you can do or say about it apart from start sending your cash to the CSA oh and i dont even have to let you have contact with the child.
Lifes a b1tch and women have the final say!
(im not really going to do all that to you)
07 March 2006, 09:02 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by paul-s
That explains my gf's exceptionally horny few days each month
but seriously, how can she have the final decision on this ? She is making the decision for him to be a dad without him wanting to be. That is not fair and irresponsible. She cant expect him to carry on knowing he has a kid out there. If he doesnt want one he wont want to be emotionally attached to that thought. She is being selfish IMO, they both gave their consent when they were together but its fair enough that when they split up one can withdraw such consent.
Its like someone stealing your sperm while your asleep (a tough challenge) and saying 'Im going to have your kid and you cant stop me'.
but seriously, how can she have the final decision on this ? She is making the decision for him to be a dad without him wanting to be. That is not fair and irresponsible. She cant expect him to carry on knowing he has a kid out there. If he doesnt want one he wont want to be emotionally attached to that thought. She is being selfish IMO, they both gave their consent when they were together but its fair enough that when they split up one can withdraw such consent.
Its like someone stealing your sperm while your asleep (a tough challenge) and saying 'Im going to have your kid and you cant stop me'.
Example, your g/f is pregnant, very early stages, you split up, would you ask her to get rid, ie, you withdraw your consent now you are not an item.
07 March 2006, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 84of300
whoa, hang on a minute.
Example, your g/f is pregnant, very early stages, you split up, would you ask her to get rid, ie, you withdraw your consent now you are not an item.
Example, your g/f is pregnant, very early stages, you split up, would you ask her to get rid, ie, you withdraw your consent now you are not an item.
07 March 2006, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Clarebabes
Am I rightly thinking that most of the negative comments on here have been made by men? If I am, then as a woman myself who has been through childbirth, I can understand why she has gone this far to have "her" embryos saved and possibly implanted in the future.
A woman can say that the father is unknown and she doesn't HAVE to involve the CSA if she doesn't want to. I have no idea if it affects benefits, but to be honest, if she can afford to take him to the ECHR, then she can't be short of a bob or two - or perhaps she is now. If she says she doesn't know who the father is, how can they pursue him?
Only a woman can truly understand the need to have children, and that if that is impossible to fulfil, then she will go to the ends of the earth to explore any avenue available which is what she has done.
I feel sorry for her. OK, she can use donor sperm/eggs, but it won't be the same. As for adoption, that is not a substitute for having your own child, from donor embryos or your own genetic material. I can feel grateful that I've got a child and can have more. I would be devastated if I found out I couldn't have any more, especially if I did have possible babies stored and they were going to be destroyed....
A woman can say that the father is unknown and she doesn't HAVE to involve the CSA if she doesn't want to. I have no idea if it affects benefits, but to be honest, if she can afford to take him to the ECHR, then she can't be short of a bob or two - or perhaps she is now. If she says she doesn't know who the father is, how can they pursue him?
Only a woman can truly understand the need to have children, and that if that is impossible to fulfil, then she will go to the ends of the earth to explore any avenue available which is what she has done.
I feel sorry for her. OK, she can use donor sperm/eggs, but it won't be the same. As for adoption, that is not a substitute for having your own child, from donor embryos or your own genetic material. I can feel grateful that I've got a child and can have more. I would be devastated if I found out I couldn't have any more, especially if I did have possible babies stored and they were going to be destroyed....
"Only a woman can truly understand the need to have children"
I think with that comment you are doing men a disservice personally.
07 March 2006, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Clarebabes
BTW, there is a difference between being a Dad and being the biological father to a child.
07 March 2006, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by SCOsazOBY
Paul-S its like you not wearing a condom, me sleeping with you, me getting pregnant, me not telling you, me leaving you, me turning up 9 months later with our baby
Naff all you can do or say about it apart from start sending your cash to the CSA oh and i dont even have to let you have contact with the child.
Lifes a b1tch and women have the final say!
(im not really going to do all that to you)
Naff all you can do or say about it apart from start sending your cash to the CSA oh and i dont even have to let you have contact with the child.
Lifes a b1tch and women have the final say!
(im not really going to do all that to you)
07 March 2006, 10:12 PM
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They ruled the right way.
No means no..... remember.
Im a bloke and what she wants to do it totaly out of order. Lets try and remember family values in this day and age.
Back in the old days people got married before having kids...... Family values have gone right out the window, I feel so old and stuck in my ways typing this (actualy 32) but Im sick of all this modern living.
Youve got two blokes kissing on emerdale and two girls on eastenders..... THE WORLD OF TODAY !
No means no..... remember.
Im a bloke and what she wants to do it totaly out of order. Lets try and remember family values in this day and age.
Back in the old days people got married before having kids...... Family values have gone right out the window, I feel so old and stuck in my ways typing this (actualy 32) but Im sick of all this modern living.
Youve got two blokes kissing on emerdale and two girls on eastenders..... THE WORLD OF TODAY !
07 March 2006, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Wish
Youve got two blokes kissing on emerdale and two girls on eastenders..... THE WORLD OF TODAY !
Shame they're fat tho 
07 March 2006, 10:21 PM
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lol......
But im just getting sick of it all.... You turn the telly on and its in your face.
Family values ........
Just cos the sour faced woman didnt get her own way its the bloke thats made to look bad in all of this. Im sorry for her... but to be honest if i was the male in the same position i too would say no.
But im just getting sick of it all.... You turn the telly on and its in your face.
Family values ........
Just cos the sour faced woman didnt get her own way its the bloke thats made to look bad in all of this. Im sorry for her... but to be honest if i was the male in the same position i too would say no.
07 March 2006, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Clarebabes
I can understand why she has gone this far to have "her" embryos saved and possibly implanted in the future.
If she says she doesn't know who the father is, how can they pursue him?
07 March 2006, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by OllyK
They are half his.
You think with all the publicity they won't be able to find him? You think the kid won't be able to trace the father?
You think with all the publicity they won't be able to find him? You think the kid won't be able to trace the father?
*makes a break for the door*
07 March 2006, 11:15 PM
#46
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The embryos are half his, half hers ..... he decides that he doesn't want any of them turning into a human being.
Remember the fact that he can choose in this case - lets not cloud the issue with talk of 'if' this and 'if' that ..... in this instance he CAN choose and HAS chosen.
He does NOT want children with this woman ......
She has lost her child bearing capability .... well, I'm afraid, thats tough luck - life isn't fair!
Pete
Remember the fact that he can choose in this case - lets not cloud the issue with talk of 'if' this and 'if' that ..... in this instance he CAN choose and HAS chosen.
He does NOT want children with this woman ......
She has lost her child bearing capability .... well, I'm afraid, thats tough luck - life isn't fair!
Pete
07 March 2006, 11:24 PM
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Forgive me if someone has mentioned it but from reading the responses so far every single one of you have missed the real point...........................
Who the **** paid for the 5 court cases in this dispute? I'm thinking legal aid from looking at the early pictures of the 2 people involved (neither look in Richard Bransons league of wealth, which is what you would need to be)
Which to my mind means ME and YOU. Both of them have a valid point, but why should I be fookin paying for it 
Who the **** paid for the 5 court cases in this dispute? I'm thinking legal aid from looking at the early pictures of the 2 people involved (neither look in Richard Bransons league of wealth, which is what you would need to be)
Which to my mind means ME and YOU. Both of them have a valid point, but why should I be fookin paying for it
07 March 2006, 11:45 PM
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I heard this when I woke up to the news this morning on the radio.
I thought to myself "cheeky bitch" they are as much his embryos as they are hers.
They've split up and she shouldn't be able to demand that they are used just because of her problems. That's selfish !
There's enough dam people on the planet now without adding to it.
All this modern science looks good on paper and modern medicine prolonging our meagre existance on this planet.... for what??
To rape the planet yet further of it's natural resources in return for "one upmanship" on the person next door, whether that be by monetary gain or a bigger house, or better car...
Sick...
Anyway off on a rant there......
Well done courts right decision !
Andy
I thought to myself "cheeky bitch" they are as much his embryos as they are hers.
They've split up and she shouldn't be able to demand that they are used just because of her problems. That's selfish !
There's enough dam people on the planet now without adding to it.
All this modern science looks good on paper and modern medicine prolonging our meagre existance on this planet.... for what??
To rape the planet yet further of it's natural resources in return for "one upmanship" on the person next door, whether that be by monetary gain or a bigger house, or better car...
Sick...
Anyway off on a rant there......
Well done courts
right decision !Andy
08 March 2006, 12:07 AM
#49
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Tricky subject,
but, i can see the sense of the law in this case.
And i,m sorry if i upset any of the opposite sex,
its not the end of the world if you dont have kids, you dont turn into some wierd monster (mind you thats debatable)
yes agreed women are genetically programmed to have children, but!!! so are men. however there genetic programming is just to replicate.
you dont hear men moaning about there biologial clock do you.
lets play devils advocate and assume that the law lords said yes.
where would the father stand?? you could bet your bottom dollar that the csa would be chasing him, regardless of the fact that he diidnt consent.
prhaps she should have had eggs saved as well
Mart
but, i can see the sense of the law in this case.
And i,m sorry if i upset any of the opposite sex,
its not the end of the world if you dont have kids, you dont turn into some wierd monster (mind you thats debatable)
yes agreed women are genetically programmed to have children, but!!! so are men. however there genetic programming is just to replicate.
you dont hear men moaning about there biologial clock do you.
lets play devils advocate and assume that the law lords said yes.
where would the father stand?? you could bet your bottom dollar that the csa would be chasing him, regardless of the fact that he diidnt consent.
prhaps she should have had eggs saved as well
Mart
08 March 2006, 08:41 AM
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I don't think I would be stopping her having children if I was in his position. Just as long as I was not financially responsible for the child then fine.
She knew she was going to lose the ability to have children naturally again and planned for it by getting the embryos frozen, as far as I'm concerned that's pretty much consensual sex, and as such she should be free to use the embryos.
I don't know the ins and outs of freezing embryos over unfertilised eggs but I'm sure there was a reason why they did it that way, probably cos there was a higher chance of successfully baring children.
She knew she was going to lose the ability to have children naturally again and planned for it by getting the embryos frozen, as far as I'm concerned that's pretty much consensual sex, and as such she should be free to use the embryos.
I don't know the ins and outs of freezing embryos over unfertilised eggs but I'm sure there was a reason why they did it that way, probably cos there was a higher chance of successfully baring children.
08 March 2006, 09:50 AM
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I'm with 84 (post #34) - what happened if the guy got her pregnant, then they split? According to this ruling, IF consent is the key point, then he could legally force her to have an abortion!!
There was also this case, in the US: http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=409407 which is in the opposite direction.
There was also this case, in the US: http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=409407 which is in the opposite direction.
08 March 2006, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Clarebabes
Am I rightly thinking that most of the negative comments on here have been made by men? If I am, then as a woman myself who has been through childbirth, I can understand why she has gone this far to have "her" embryos saved and possibly implanted in the future.
A woman can say that the father is unknown and she doesn't HAVE to involve the CSA if she doesn't want to. I have no idea if it affects benefits, but to be honest, if she can afford to take him to the ECHR, then she can't be short of a bob or two - or perhaps she is now. If she says she doesn't know who the father is, how can they pursue him?
Only a woman can truly understand the need to have children, and that if that is impossible to fulfil, then she will go to the ends of the earth to explore any avenue available which is what she has done.
I feel sorry for her. OK, she can use donor sperm/eggs, but it won't be the same. As for adoption, that is not a substitute for having your own child, from donor embryos or your own genetic material. I can feel grateful that I've got a child and can have more. I would be devastated if I found out I couldn't have any more, especially if I did have possible babies stored and they were going to be destroyed....
A woman can say that the father is unknown and she doesn't HAVE to involve the CSA if she doesn't want to. I have no idea if it affects benefits, but to be honest, if she can afford to take him to the ECHR, then she can't be short of a bob or two - or perhaps she is now. If she says she doesn't know who the father is, how can they pursue him?
Only a woman can truly understand the need to have children, and that if that is impossible to fulfil, then she will go to the ends of the earth to explore any avenue available which is what she has done.
I feel sorry for her. OK, she can use donor sperm/eggs, but it won't be the same. As for adoption, that is not a substitute for having your own child, from donor embryos or your own genetic material. I can feel grateful that I've got a child and can have more. I would be devastated if I found out I couldn't have any more, especially if I did have possible babies stored and they were going to be destroyed....
It's a bit late for that now Clare as the fathers name is all over the press so he is fooked if she does have the kid, he wil have a child from a woman he has nothing to do with and she will be within her rights to screw him for every penny until the kid si out of full time education, I am not suprised the bloke withdrew his consent. She may say openly now that she will not persue him with teh CSA but as we all know women are devious, manipiulative and sometimes down right greedy individuals who will stop at nothing to get what they want no matter what the outcome to the man who as we all know actually has no rights.
Last edited by Wurzel; 08 March 2006 at 10:11 AM.
08 March 2006, 10:03 AM
#54
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Originally Posted by Wurzel
but as we all know women are devious, manipiulative and sometimes down right greedy individuals who will stop at nothing to get what they want no matter what the outcome to theman whoas we all know actually has no rights.
08 March 2006, 10:11 AM
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OK I've read everything here, so I'd thought I'd be the devil's advocate and put the flip side.
A man and woman sleep together (be they married, engaged, in a relationship or whatever), after having sex, she naturally conceives. She then tells the man about it. Soon after they have an argument, and split from each other, and he then has a terrible accident that leaves him imfertile. She decides she wants an abortion against the man's wishes.
The man would be in the right to have her continue the pregnancy? Its his embryo and she shouldn't be allowed to prevent its birth, as at the time of conception she agreed to the pregnancy, and this is his only chance to have a child which is genetically his own.
Or its her choice to choose when she becomes a parent and should be able to legally terminate the pregnancy?
Using the she should have use of the frozen embryo argument its clear that the abortion should be prevented.......
A man and woman sleep together (be they married, engaged, in a relationship or whatever), after having sex, she naturally conceives. She then tells the man about it. Soon after they have an argument, and split from each other, and he then has a terrible accident that leaves him imfertile. She decides she wants an abortion against the man's wishes.
The man would be in the right to have her continue the pregnancy? Its his embryo and she shouldn't be allowed to prevent its birth, as at the time of conception she agreed to the pregnancy, and this is his only chance to have a child which is genetically his own.
Or its her choice to choose when she becomes a parent and should be able to legally terminate the pregnancy?
Using the she should have use of the frozen embryo argument its clear that the abortion should be prevented.......
08 March 2006, 10:18 AM
#56
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Originally Posted by SCOsazOBY
Lifes a b1tch and women have the final say!
Fair play to the chap I say, both partners should have a say in the matter, though I do feel sorry for her if this is her last chance.
08 March 2006, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Reffro
OK I've read everything here, so I'd thought I'd be the devil's advocate and put the flip side.
A man and woman sleep together (be they married, engaged, in a relationship or whatever), after having sex, she naturally conceives. She then tells the man about it. Soon after they have an argument, and split from each other, and he then has a terrible accident that leaves him imfertile. She decides she wants an abortion against the man's wishes.
The man would be in the right to have her continue the pregnancy? Its his embryo and she shouldn't be allowed to prevent its birth, as at the time of conception she agreed to the pregnancy, and this is his only chance to have a child which is genetically his own.
Or its her choice to choose when she becomes a parent and should be able to legally terminate the pregnancy?
Using the she should have use of the frozen embryo argument its clear that the abortion should be prevented.......
A man and woman sleep together (be they married, engaged, in a relationship or whatever), after having sex, she naturally conceives. She then tells the man about it. Soon after they have an argument, and split from each other, and he then has a terrible accident that leaves him imfertile. She decides she wants an abortion against the man's wishes.
The man would be in the right to have her continue the pregnancy? Its his embryo and she shouldn't be allowed to prevent its birth, as at the time of conception she agreed to the pregnancy, and this is his only chance to have a child which is genetically his own.
Or its her choice to choose when she becomes a parent and should be able to legally terminate the pregnancy?
Using the she should have use of the frozen embryo argument its clear that the abortion should be prevented.......
If they had both consented to create an embryo specifically because he was going to become infertile and they later split up he should also have the choice to use the embryo for IVF treatment with another willing, or drunk
, woman.Again the 'other' person in either situation should be in no way responsible for the child.
Still not sure why they froze embryos rather than just freezing her eggs though, you would have thought they would have considered that possibility they would break up, but maybe I'm just too pragmatic about things
08 March 2006, 10:39 AM
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They both knew at the time of donation that consent for use could be withdrawn in future. They both went through with it on that understanding. I don't see why one of them should be able to change the rules afterwards.
08 March 2006, 10:42 AM
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I don't think any of us are qualified to say what the outcome of this case should be. There may well be others reasons which we do not know in respect of their relationship and which he is not prepared to talk about.
As the law stands, he is entitled to refuse so the courts had no option but to give the decision that they have done.
Les
As the law stands, he is entitled to refuse so the courts had no option but to give the decision that they have done.
Les
08 March 2006, 10:43 AM
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The Woman may say now she wont ask for any financial support and say to the CSA father is unknown - but the father is known and it is well documented. So the Woman can change her mind later and get support.
It isnt the same if a woman gets pregnant on a one night stand. These embryos were frozen for use in the future. This was not just for the benefit of the Woman - it was a mutual thing and mutual consent was needed.
The law for once has worked correctly.
It isnt the same if a woman gets pregnant on a one night stand. These embryos were frozen for use in the future. This was not just for the benefit of the Woman - it was a mutual thing and mutual consent was needed.
The law for once has worked correctly.