He must really hate her!
08 March 2006, 10:45 AM
#61
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Originally Posted by Leslie
I don't think any of us are qualified to say what the outcome of this case should be. There may well be others reasons which we do not know in respect of their relationship and which he is not prepared to talk about.
As the law stands, he is entitled to refuse so the courts had no option but to give the decision that they have done.
Les
As the law stands, he is entitled to refuse so the courts had no option but to give the decision that they have done.
Les
08 March 2006, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Brendan Hughes
I'm with 84 (post #34) - what happened if the guy got her pregnant, then they split? According to this ruling, IF consent is the key point, then he could legally force her to have an abortion!!
There was also this case, in the US: http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=409407 which is in the opposite direction.
There was also this case, in the US: http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=409407 which is in the opposite direction.
08 March 2006, 11:10 AM
#63
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For the people that are siding with the woman on this one, what are your views if he had found a new partner and SHE was infertile and he wanted HIS embryo's for implant into her? 
(lights blue touch paper)
(lights blue touch paper)
08 March 2006, 11:17 AM
#64
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Perhaps if there was just a simple form saying something along the lines of...
I relinquish all rights and responsibilties for the child created using the sperm/egss/embryo donated
and a similar one when they are being used...
I will not hold anyone responsible in any was for the child created using these sperm/eggs/embryo.
That would allow there to be a bit more choice in what is a bit of a minefield to legislate fairly for.
I can see what people are saying about the legislation in place but as I said earlier I don't think I would personally oppose what she wants to do just as long as a court could guarantee that I was not held responsible in any way for the child, that in itself can be a problem unless the decision is made and then upheld at appeal at the highest court in the land.
The decision made by the courts is the correct one according to the law as it stands but I think with a bit of flexibility it would end up a little more fair for both parties.
I relinquish all rights and responsibilties for the child created using the sperm/egss/embryo donated
and a similar one when they are being used...
I will not hold anyone responsible in any was for the child created using these sperm/eggs/embryo.
That would allow there to be a bit more choice in what is a bit of a minefield to legislate fairly for.
I can see what people are saying about the legislation in place but as I said earlier I don't think I would personally oppose what she wants to do just as long as a court could guarantee that I was not held responsible in any way for the child, that in itself can be a problem unless the decision is made and then upheld at appeal at the highest court in the land.
The decision made by the courts is the correct one according to the law as it stands but I think with a bit of flexibility it would end up a little more fair for both parties.
08 March 2006, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Stainy
For the people that are siding with the woman on this one, what are your views if he had found a new partner and SHE was infertile and he wanted HIS embryo's for implant into her? (lights blue touch paper)
(lights blue touch paper)
08 March 2006, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Frosty The Snowman
Perhaps if there was just a simple form saying something along the lines of...
I relinquish all rights and responsibilties for the child created using the sperm/egss/embryo donated
and a similar one when they are being used...
I will not hold anyone responsible in any was for the child created using these sperm/eggs/embryo.
That would allow there to be a bit more choice in what is a bit of a minefield to legislate fairly for.
I can see what people are saying about the legislation in place but as I said earlier I don't think I would personally oppose what she wants to do just as long as a court could guarantee that I was not held responsible in any way for the child, that in itself can be a problem unless the decision is made and then upheld at appeal at the highest court in the land.
The decision made by the courts is the correct one according to the law as it stands but I think with a bit of flexibility it would end up a little more fair for both parties.
I relinquish all rights and responsibilties for the child created using the sperm/egss/embryo donated
and a similar one when they are being used...
I will not hold anyone responsible in any was for the child created using these sperm/eggs/embryo.
That would allow there to be a bit more choice in what is a bit of a minefield to legislate fairly for.
I can see what people are saying about the legislation in place but as I said earlier I don't think I would personally oppose what she wants to do just as long as a court could guarantee that I was not held responsible in any way for the child, that in itself can be a problem unless the decision is made and then upheld at appeal at the highest court in the land.
The decision made by the courts is the correct one according to the law as it stands but I think with a bit of flexibility it would end up a little more fair for both parties.
08 March 2006, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by OllyK
And what about the kid coming and pestering "Daddy" when Mummy isn't very nice to it and by this time you are married and have a familiy? Need to have an injunction to prevent the kid from ever contacting the father as well.
08 March 2006, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Frosty The Snowman
In that case he could get another egg doner and use his semen to fertilise them and use them as part of and IVF treatment for the infertile woman. In this case I think the embryos were specifically created for her as she was going to become infertile.
I suppose I should have said what if these embryo's were saved because he was becoming infertile and now he had a new partner that he wanted to use them with.
08 March 2006, 12:08 PM
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Women are selfish creatures and only see things from their own perspective the majority of the time. See's probably sat there thinking how nasty hes being to her without giving a thought to anything he's feeling.
Take away their rights, lock them in the kitchen, thats what I say
Seriously though good on the courts coming through for the blokes for a change, all too often we see unfair rulings over men in favour of women.
Take away their rights, lock them in the kitchen, thats what I say
Seriously though good on the courts coming through for the blokes for a change, all too often we see unfair rulings over men in favour of women.
08 March 2006, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by davyboy
SN would be a dull place if we all sat on the fence
I'm glad she's not on my case.
08 March 2006, 12:49 PM
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It's come to the courts. As such there can be no room for sentiment.
I can't see it as anything other than 100% the correct decision - no matter how it must be hurting the poor woman.
A person (male or female) has the right to choose whether they are a parent or not. As much as a horrible situation this is - the right decision has been made.
It would have been "nice" of the man to have allowed her to have "their" child - but i do not think we should string him up by his bollox for making an informed decision that affects him at a moral level.
It's a horrid situation, and another example that in some cases our scientific advances can open a whole new can of worms when we least expect it.
Courts have made an impartial decision disregarding all sentiment - it is their job to do so and their decision is 100% correct.
IMO.
I can't see it as anything other than 100% the correct decision - no matter how it must be hurting the poor woman.
A person (male or female) has the right to choose whether they are a parent or not. As much as a horrible situation this is - the right decision has been made.
It would have been "nice" of the man to have allowed her to have "their" child - but i do not think we should string him up by his bollox for making an informed decision that affects him at a moral level.
It's a horrid situation, and another example that in some cases our scientific advances can open a whole new can of worms when we least expect it.
Courts have made an impartial decision disregarding all sentiment - it is their job to do so and their decision is 100% correct.
IMO.
Last edited by TheBigMan; 08 March 2006 at 01:02 PM.
08 March 2006, 12:59 PM
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she's nuts......why would she want a child where the father wants nothing to do with it? is she even in a relationship?
being able to have kids is luck of the gods, she lost her chance....could have been worse, she could have died! She should think herself lucky and get on with life.
having a child is not a right, its a gift that you either get or dont get.
being able to have kids is luck of the gods, she lost her chance....could have been worse, she could have died! She should think herself lucky and get on with life.
having a child is not a right, its a gift that you either get or dont get.
08 March 2006, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Tiggs
she's nuts......why would she want a child where the father wants nothing to do with it? is she even in a relationship?
being able to have kids is luck of the gods, she lost her chance....could have been worse, she could have died! She should think herself lucky and get on with life.
having a child is not a right, its a gift that you either get or dont get.
being able to have kids is luck of the gods, she lost her chance....could have been worse, she could have died! She should think herself lucky and get on with life.
having a child is not a right, its a gift that you either get or dont get.
08 March 2006, 01:13 PM
#75
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Originally Posted by Tiggs
She should think herself lucky and get on with life
I'm sure they'll be grateful.
08 March 2006, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by davyboy
You really need to let more cancer sufferers hear your words of wisdom.
I'm sure they'll be grateful.
I'm sure they'll be grateful.
There is nowt we can do about it except prolong the pain with drugs.
When it is your time to go then it is your time to go!
08 March 2006, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Wurzel
I think it is called survival of the fittest and natural selection.
There is nowt we can do about it except prolong the pain with drugs.
When it is your time to go then it is your time to go!
There is nowt we can do about it except prolong the pain with drugs.
When it is your time to go then it is your time to go!
BTW - If memory serves me correctly, quite a few people have actually survived cancer.
08 March 2006, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by davyboy
Someone people can make a full recovery from cancer, does that make them super human?
08 March 2006, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Wurzel
No it just means it was not their time to go! people recover from illness all the time but when ya gona go ya gona go simple as that.
....random.
08 March 2006, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by TheBigMan
Ok, and the relevance of this with regards to this thread or any post within??
....random.
....random.
Read title, read posts, think if you can add anything to the thread, make post.
Simple
08 March 2006, 01:33 PM
#84
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Originally Posted by Clarebabes
Am I rightly thinking that most of the negative comments on here have been made by men? If I am, then as a woman myself who has been through childbirth, I can understand why she has gone this far to have "her" embryos saved and possibly implanted in the future.
A woman can say that the father is unknown and she doesn't HAVE to involve the CSA if she doesn't want to. I have no idea if it affects benefits, but to be honest, if she can afford to take him to the ECHR, then she can't be short of a bob or two - or perhaps she is now. If she says she doesn't know who the father is, how can they pursue him?
Only a woman can truly understand the need to have children, and that if that is impossible to fulfil, then she will go to the ends of the earth to explore any avenue available which is what she has done.
I feel sorry for her. OK, she can use donor sperm/eggs, but it won't be the same. As for adoption, that is not a substitute for having your own child, from donor embryos or your own genetic material. I can feel grateful that I've got a child and can have more. I would be devastated if I found out I couldn't have any more, especially if I did have possible babies stored and they were going to be destroyed....
A woman can say that the father is unknown and she doesn't HAVE to involve the CSA if she doesn't want to. I have no idea if it affects benefits, but to be honest, if she can afford to take him to the ECHR, then she can't be short of a bob or two - or perhaps she is now. If she says she doesn't know who the father is, how can they pursue him?
Only a woman can truly understand the need to have children, and that if that is impossible to fulfil, then she will go to the ends of the earth to explore any avenue available which is what she has done.
I feel sorry for her. OK, she can use donor sperm/eggs, but it won't be the same. As for adoption, that is not a substitute for having your own child, from donor embryos or your own genetic material. I can feel grateful that I've got a child and can have more. I would be devastated if I found out I couldn't have any more, especially if I did have possible babies stored and they were going to be destroyed....
Because he knows that his child will be out there and no matter what he will have an emotional attachement. I'd be the same as him. It's tough on her but that's life sometimes.
While it is extremely sad for her the courts have made the right decision as both parents have to consent and he doesn't.
08 March 2006, 01:48 PM
#86
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Originally Posted by Tiggs
she's nuts......why would she want a child where the father wants nothing to do with it? is she even in a relationship?
being able to have kids is luck of the gods, she lost her chance....could have been worse, she could have died! She should think herself lucky and get on with life.
having a child is not a right, its a gift that you either get or dont get.
being able to have kids is luck of the gods, she lost her chance....could have been worse, she could have died! She should think herself lucky and get on with life.
having a child is not a right, its a gift that you either get or dont get.
08 March 2006, 01:53 PM
#87
Originally Posted by Frosty The Snowman
I can see what people are saying about the legislation in place but as I said earlier I don't think I would personally oppose what she wants to do just as long as a court could guarantee that I was not held responsible in any way for the child, that in itself can be a problem unless the decision is made and then upheld at appeal at the highest court in the land.
If he said yes and let her have it he is no better than the men that do a runner and don't care for their children. She is treating it like a commodity.
If I were him I would have extreme difficulty letting her do this because I would want to be a parent for my son or daughter.
She is an evil cow.
08 March 2006, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
Why has it got to be about rights and responsibility? Nothing would ever change the fact that this would be his biological child, there would be an emotional bond.
If he said yes and let her have it he is no better than the men that do a runner and don't care for their children. She is treating it like a commodity.
If I were him I would have extreme difficulty letting her do this because I would want to be a parent for my son or daughter.
She is an evil cow.
If he said yes and let her have it he is no better than the men that do a runner and don't care for their children. She is treating it like a commodity.
If I were him I would have extreme difficulty letting her do this because I would want to be a parent for my son or daughter.
She is an evil cow.
Not really sure if there would be an emotional bond as I would have thought that is built by time being spent with the child, for example a foster parent could have an emotional bond with the foster child.
I can't say this is anything like a man doing a runner and not caring for his child.
I agree with the outcome of the court case because that is how the law stands at the moment, however, if I was in his position I would be happy for her to have the child if I were not held responsible later on down the line. Whats to say she's not in a loving relationship and her husband/partner is happy with what she wants.
08 March 2006, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Clarebabes
Am I rightly thinking that most of the negative comments on here have been made by men? If I am, then as a woman myself who has been through childbirth, I can understand why she has gone this far to have "her" embryos saved and possibly implanted in the future.
It's not the same as withdrawing consent after you are pregnant either, that is asking the woman to undergo some sort of procedure to allow termination, which is unacceptable. This has not forced the omwan in question t undergo anything (except stress and upset, but I'm sure it hasn't been easy for him either).
The right decision was made.
She can always adopt. Now that really is a caring thing to do. Loving someone elses unwanted child and giving them a chance. I love my kids unconditonally because they are mine, but to adopt, well, people who do that deserve respect. She is being rather selfish to say the least.
Geezer
08 March 2006, 02:34 PM
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And to give the excuse he doesnt have to have anything to do with it is stupid too, Imagine 20years down the line some young person knocking on your door, Hi your my Daddy, if you had a concience it'd be a bit hard to tell them too **** off wouldnt it.