The shame that is now the NHS..........
08 March 2006, 02:48 PM
#31
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Are PatientLine making a HUGE profit?
No. An operating loss of £12m in 2005 it would seem.
Now I know financials can be massaged, but no shareholder is going to be happy with a £12m loss (and operating losses since 2001!).
Just because it was installed as a "service" doesn't mean it should be free. Did BT ever make all phone calls to/from patients in hospitals free? No. Before no-one had beside tv or phone...now they do. That doesn't come cheap. Somebody has to pay for it. If the patient wants to make use of it, they pay for it.
The parking charge thing is fair enough to have issue with, but certainly here in Edinburgh, it was because the hospital was a PFI and the parking was outsourced to NCP or whoever - on a 10 year deal or somethingl...so they can't go back on the deal now
No. An operating loss of £12m in 2005 it would seem.
Now I know financials can be massaged, but no shareholder is going to be happy with a £12m loss (and operating losses since 2001!).
Just because it was installed as a "service" doesn't mean it should be free. Did BT ever make all phone calls to/from patients in hospitals free? No. Before no-one had beside tv or phone...now they do. That doesn't come cheap. Somebody has to pay for it. If the patient wants to make use of it, they pay for it.
The parking charge thing is fair enough to have issue with, but certainly here in Edinburgh, it was because the hospital was a PFI and the parking was outsourced to NCP or whoever - on a 10 year deal or somethingl...so they can't go back on the deal now
08 March 2006, 02:55 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by alcazar
Imlach: you're missing MY point: why should a HUGE profit be made from people's sickness?
Were the NHS to spend £200m on installing these devices at the bedside versus £200m on some new cancer drug, which would you choose? One is essential, one is not.
Therefore, it has to be outsourced. Now what company would want to pick up a contract that had to be run with no profit with all the risks of financial loss?
Using this route, the NHS outsource it 100%, and it has no negative or positive impact on NHS finances.
Seems a winner.
08 March 2006, 05:06 PM
#34
Were the NHS to spend £200m on installing these devices at the bedside versus £200m on some new cancer drug, which would you choose? One is essential, one is not.
Therefore, it has to be outsourced. Now what company would want to pick up a contract that had to be run with no profit with all the risks of financial loss?
Using this route, the NHS outsource it 100%, and it has no negative or positive impact on NHS finances.
Seems a winner.
Therefore, it has to be outsourced. Now what company would want to pick up a contract that had to be run with no profit with all the risks of financial loss?
Using this route, the NHS outsource it 100%, and it has no negative or positive impact on NHS finances.
Seems a winner.
What about those who can't afford to use it? Their old standby services are no more
Does the price REALLY need to be 49p per incoming minute? Why so high? It's a further strain on patients and their families/friends.
GMTV had the case this morning of a poor woman whose mother went into Sheffield hospital, while the daughter lived in Bicester. By the time the lady came OUT of hospital, the daughter had run up a £180 bill. Not much to some, maybe not, but a whole lot to others. And her alternative?
OK, there was no alternative before, but now: if she doesn't ring, she feels awful, thinks her mother believes she doesn't care, risks her mother passing away the day she DIDN'T ring etc etc, and all the time the phone company are RAKING it in at 49p per minute. It's usuary(sp).
And what of those old folk who can't/don't want to pay £10 for three hours TV, but can't get out of bed to go to a TV room. Want to bet the ward TV is still there?
Granted, we didn't NEED this system, but if we're going to have it, oughtn't it to be done at a FAIR rate of return?
Alcazar
08 March 2006, 05:16 PM
#35
Originally Posted by OllyK
I'm seeing through the spin, I care that NL are trying to take credit for things they haven't done, it's just plain dishonest.
Er - that's what politicians do (both taking credit, [U]and[U] being dishonest). I think they learned the taking credit for other people's work bit from managers, who love to do the same thing. The various anti-Labour people here seem to assume that politics didn't exist until 1998. Sorry, but this, like most other things being done by the Labour party, are VERY old political tricks.
M
08 March 2006, 05:23 PM
#36
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This also appears to be a monopoly.
You cannot use mobiles in hosptials so have to use the service provided. What happens if you are unable to get to a BT style payphone.
It is like the extortionate charges for hosptial parking - a cynical way of making money from other peoples misfortune.
Poor show!
You cannot use mobiles in hosptials so have to use the service provided. What happens if you are unable to get to a BT style payphone.
It is like the extortionate charges for hosptial parking - a cynical way of making money from other peoples misfortune.
Poor show!
08 March 2006, 06:25 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by imlach
Were the NHS to spend £200m on installing these devices at the bedside versus £200m on some new cancer drug, which would you choose? One is essential, one is not.
http://www.basestructures.com/news.php?nswid=1
Yet the very same hospital has no pillows for patients.
It cannot operate CT scanners due to lack of staff.
Would you not say that the above are essential but the canopy is not.
Chip
08 March 2006, 07:13 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by Paul Habgood
This also appears to be a monopoly.
You cannot use mobiles in hosptials so have to use the service provided. What happens if you are unable to get to a BT style payphone.
Poor show!
You cannot use mobiles in hosptials so have to use the service provided. What happens if you are unable to get to a BT style payphone.
Poor show!
Outgoing call charges are 10p/min. That's the same as a BT payphone is it not (or less?)....and it's at your bedside 24/7.
The incoming call charges are higher, but remember, it also offers voicemail etc so it's not just a basic service. It also has an admin aspect as they continuously have to remap/setup voicemail and route calls to an individuals personal mailbox...yes, nearly a no brainer, but this is a service happening here...not just a fixed number in a ward.
The £10/day for the tv is incorrect. It is £3.50/day. You also get more channels than council telly.
08 March 2006, 07:16 PM
#39
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Oh, and they even allow patients who are leaving to donate unwanted credit on cards to those who need it more....so those who are financially disadvantaged are able to make use of other patient's generosity.
Not ideal, but it's a start.
Not ideal, but it's a start.
08 March 2006, 07:19 PM
#40
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This is a good debate to have and there seems to be two issues:
- Politicians are weasles and low life who are cheats and liars and will take any personal glory for political gain, even if their initial intentions were altuistic. Don't trust them.
- How should the NHS be financed? We all seem to want an NHS that is a Rolls-Royce service for the price of a Lada. The funding going into the NHS cannot pay for what we want out of it. We need to have a sensible debate about what the NHS is and how much we should pay for it.
For example, if you have cancer and are dying and have complex palliative care needs you may expect the input of a Macmillan nurse (Macmillan pump-prime a post financially to get the post going and then the taxpayer picks up the bill). But up and down the country these nurses are being told that they are a very expensive resource and have to justify their existence to the NHS. They can't meet any Govt targets or bring in any income into their employers so are seen by bean counters as expendable. This is because it's hard to measure what they do in terms that Govts understand. But members of the public that have had good support from a cancer nurse would say that they are good value for money. Unless Joe Public articulates this to Govt then it may be a service that will be threatened in the future. The govt will use the term 'improving services for patients' rather than removing a service!
Additionally the media drives our expectation of what we are entitled to receive from the NHS - eg the breast cancer patients fighting Herceptin at a stage in their desease for which the drug is not liscenced. Media headlines of 'Cancer patient denied treatment' etc manipulate the public purse - those that shout loudest get the most. But the fact is that money is diverted away from other services to pay for that very expensive cancer drug and real people make choices about which services are cut. This may be realised in a recruitment freeze in the hospital where there is low staffing numbers and low morale - for example on an elderly ward. Care standards drop and nothing is done until something appears on some tv programme that exposes shortfalls in care.
My thoughts is that the public need to know the true cost of healthcare then we can decide if it's worth carrying on with - do we want the have nots to be denied healthcare because they cannot afford it? I doubt it but that is just my opinion. I think most peole value the NHS and want an excellent service from it, weather you are a breast cancer patient who may benefit from Herceptin or an elderly patient in the elderly ward.
sorry about the rant
andy
Additionally the media drives our expectation of what we are entitled to receive from the NHS - eg the breast cancer patients fighting Herceptin at a stage in their desease for which the drug is not liscenced. Media headlines of 'Cancer patient denied treatment' etc manipulate the public purse - those that shout loudest get the most. But the fact is that money is diverted away from other services to pay for that very expensive cancer drug and real people make choices about which services are cut. This may be realised in a recruitment freeze in the hospital where there is low staffing numbers and low morale - for example on an elderly ward. Care standards drop and nothing is done until something appears on some tv programme that exposes shortfalls in care.
My thoughts is that the public need to know the true cost of healthcare then we can decide if it's worth carrying on with - do we want the have nots to be denied healthcare because they cannot afford it? I doubt it but that is just my opinion. I think most peole value the NHS and want an excellent service from it, weather you are a breast cancer patient who may benefit from Herceptin or an elderly patient in the elderly ward.
sorry about the rant
andy
08 March 2006, 07:27 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by Chip
My local hospital has just spent £500k installing this:
http://www.basestructures.com/news.php?nswid=1
Yet the very same hospital has no pillows for patients.
It cannot operate CT scanners due to lack of staff.
Would you not say that the above are essential but the canopy is not.
Chip
http://www.basestructures.com/news.php?nswid=1
Yet the very same hospital has no pillows for patients.
It cannot operate CT scanners due to lack of staff.
Would you not say that the above are essential but the canopy is not.
Chip
However, I don't know how your hospital is funded, and who owns/runs the building & services. ie, is it leased back from a separate company who are in charge of all maintenance and improvements? They obviously have a budget to work to, and decided this was necesssary.
It's the shamful old aspects of "spend it or lose it" that is prevalent in public departments too...if you've got a budget and don't spend it, you won't get the same budget the next year
Crazy in some respects.
08 March 2006, 08:05 PM
#42
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It amazes me, and the point was raised tonight.
people dont care how much money is spent, or what targets are cut, if wards are closed and jobs cut, then the voters will vote to get rid of the people in power.
It turns out that of the 96bn spent nearly half is to top up state pensions
WHY!!! cos the treasury has robbed it blind, ( did he go to school with maxwell by any chance)
and then the sanctimonious **** was trying to justify the 300 !!!! job cuts by saying we are the victim of our own success, reduced targets yadda yadda
I note he ommitted to say, and i will be one of the ones going :grr:
why do hospitals need 4 pen pushers for every nurse???
and once again, no one is accountable, and anyone who has a shred of doubt is protected.
One day the voters in this country will wake up and put someone in charge who has the ***** to say " your not performing, your out" and tackle this cash black hole.
Mart
people dont care how much money is spent, or what targets are cut, if wards are closed and jobs cut, then the voters will vote to get rid of the people in power.
It turns out that of the 96bn spent nearly half is to top up state pensions
WHY!!! cos the treasury has robbed it blind, ( did he go to school with maxwell by any chance)
and then the sanctimonious **** was trying to justify the 300 !!!! job cuts by saying we are the victim of our own success, reduced targets yadda yadda
I note he ommitted to say, and i will be one of the ones going :grr:
why do hospitals need 4 pen pushers for every nurse???
and once again, no one is accountable, and anyone who has a shred of doubt is protected.
One day the voters in this country will wake up and put someone in charge who has the ***** to say " your not performing, your out" and tackle this cash black hole.
Mart
09 March 2006, 12:58 PM
#43
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My local hospital has them installed. The incoming phone charges were around the 50p a minute, and the TV was £2.50 for 24 hrs. I thought that was expensive but was glad nevertheless that I was able to see the Winter Olympics.
Its a bit soulless having to lie in the bed with no entertainment though.
I do rail against the car park charges, there is no way that it costs that much to maintain the carparks as was given as an excuse on the News by a Trust Manager.
Les
Its a bit soulless having to lie in the bed with no entertainment though.
I do rail against the car park charges, there is no way that it costs that much to maintain the carparks as was given as an excuse on the News by a Trust Manager.
Les
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