There is no GOD, get over it.
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Originally Posted by JTaylor
Dawkins completely shattered the flagella virus theory and dismissed it as propaganda by the pro-ID community. I'll try and dig it out.
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Originally Posted by JTaylor
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Originally Posted by OllyK
The origins of the universe is dealt with by cosmology and physics, life (and biology) are relative new comers to the time line. Dawkins does not "cosily skirt" he honestly states he is not involved in the scientific discipline involved in investigating the origins of the universe.
The physicists don't have the answers yet, but they are finding out more all the time. I try to keep up with the goings on at a very high level, but physics never was my strong subject. There is an awful lot of information out there about the origins of the universe and it is quite mend bending stuff. If you want to get in to it, start with something like "A brief history of time". It's a little dated now, but it's still a good primer to get you going.
The physicists don't have the answers yet, but they are finding out more all the time. I try to keep up with the goings on at a very high level, but physics never was my strong subject. There is an awful lot of information out there about the origins of the universe and it is quite mend bending stuff. If you want to get in to it, start with something like "A brief history of time". It's a little dated now, but it's still a good primer to get you going.
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Originally Posted by JTaylor
Thanks for the reply Olly. I've trawled through Hawkins and keep an eye on the goings on at CERN. Right here, right now, we don't have the answer. I don't like the phrase "irreducible minimum" - it sounds a bit pessimistic and makes me feel that I may face eternity not knowing, perhaps there is still a place for God. The issue of beyond the big bang is the scientific and atheistic community's thorn. Until it finds a workable theory of everything , God's still in with a fighting chance.
god's role is ever reducing, about the best you can claim for a god is that it set the whole thing in motion and then abondoned it. There is certainly nothing beyond that point that even remotely requires a god, nor is there any evidence for any of the currently documented gods, indeed most of them are logically inconsistent anyway.
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Originally Posted by OllyK
You're probably about as up to date as me on your reading then.
god's role is ever reducing, about the best you can claim for a god is that it set the whole thing in motion and then abondoned it.
god's role is ever reducing, about the best you can claim for a god is that it set the whole thing in motion and then abondoned it.
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I always think it is a wonderful arrogance on our part that because we don't understand something there must be a higher purpose to it.
It's a simple carry on from the flat earth "how can it be round? we'd fall off!" to the Earth being the centre of the Universe "look, you can SEE they revolve around us!" series of arguments... because WE don't understand it - it can't be understood.
Yeesh.
We are a VERY small insignificant part of a VERY large and complex dynamic & random interplay of forces, but at the same time we are wonderful example of the fruits of that very same dynamic interplay... who needs a God to explain this? Why look for intelligent design?
It's a simple carry on from the flat earth "how can it be round? we'd fall off!" to the Earth being the centre of the Universe "look, you can SEE they revolve around us!" series of arguments... because WE don't understand it - it can't be understood.
Yeesh.
We are a VERY small insignificant part of a VERY large and complex dynamic & random interplay of forces, but at the same time we are wonderful example of the fruits of that very same dynamic interplay... who needs a God to explain this? Why look for intelligent design?
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Before the big bang and evolution though what was there? Where did it come from and what was there before that etc? Where did those gases come from? To think that time is endless both before and after the time you read this is unfathomable to me.
It gives me a headache just trying to accept the concept that space is infinite and there is no end point, and if there was what would be on the other side of it or what would the end point consist of Trying to understand any of this really is impossible as there are no answers and never will be. Scientists can only try to explain what is close to us (in relation to infinite space).
Trying to understand infinity in both time and distance is a mind boggling process.
It gives me a headache just trying to accept the concept that space is infinite and there is no end point, and if there was what would be on the other side of it or what would the end point consist of Trying to understand any of this really is impossible as there are no answers and never will be. Scientists can only try to explain what is close to us (in relation to infinite space).
Trying to understand infinity in both time and distance is a mind boggling process.
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I agree - but why would that mean that there is a God, or that there is some intelligence behind what is happening?
As said above - just because WE don't understand it, doesn't mean that there is some over-riding intelligence steering it.
It just means we don't understand it.
As said above - just because WE don't understand it, doesn't mean that there is some over-riding intelligence steering it.
It just means we don't understand it.
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Oh I didn't mean by my reply that gave any reason for there to be a God. It was more of a case that although there are lots of books and papers and theories proved by physics on the universe and our existence that the bigger picture will never really be explainable.
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Originally Posted by **************
Before the big bang and evolution though what was there? Where did it come from and what was there before that etc? Where did those gases come from? To think that time is endless both before and after the time you read this is unfathomable to me.
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Originally Posted by **************
Oh I didn't mean by my reply that gave any reason for there to be a God. It was more of a case that although there are lots of books and papers and theories proved by physics on the universe and our existence that the bigger picture will never really be explainable.
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Originally Posted by OllyK
Time started at the big bang, there was no concept of time before this.
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Originally Posted by MY93WRX
You could easily argue God/a higher being ect ect put together the elements required for the big bang - prove he didn't or prove he did it's not possible to do either thats why you have to have faith.
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Originally Posted by OllyK
You can argue any gibberish you like, if however, you're suggesting you can put forward a convincing evidence based case for a divine creator, then that's a different issue, and I'd love to see you try. What we do know so far, doesn't require the intervention of a deity.
Last edited by MY93WRX; 13 March 2006 at 02:23 PM.
#47
I believe in God.Certainly we live in a far more Godless society.No day of rest,Sundays as busy as every other day with everyone out doing the shopping.
24/7 greed culture with only ourselves in mind.Bit of war in the background and a potential World War III that could be started by any number of suspect countries.
Makes you wonder if God fancies cleaning up the earth a bit,with a little help from a self destructive world population.
Sorry no science input and if it is a bit deep, but I am afraid none of us have the ability to explain pre big bang and the thread sums up how I feel society(in general) thinks.Saddens me.
Funnily enough,the change seems to be just over the past 20/30 years..Must be about the time when computers were born to explain everything to us.
24/7 greed culture with only ourselves in mind.Bit of war in the background and a potential World War III that could be started by any number of suspect countries.
Makes you wonder if God fancies cleaning up the earth a bit,with a little help from a self destructive world population.
Sorry no science input and if it is a bit deep, but I am afraid none of us have the ability to explain pre big bang and the thread sums up how I feel society(in general) thinks.Saddens me.
Funnily enough,the change seems to be just over the past 20/30 years..Must be about the time when computers were born to explain everything to us.
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Originally Posted by lozgti
I believe in God.Certainly we live in a far more Godless society.No day of rest,Sundays as busy as every other day with everyone out doing the shopping.
24/7 greed culture with only ourselves in mind.Bit of war in the background and a potential World War III that could be started by any number of suspect countries.
Makes you wonder if God fancies cleaning up the earth a bit,with a little help from a self destructive world population.
Sorry no science input and if it is a bit deep, but I am afraid none of us have the ability to explain pre big bang and the thread sums up how I feel society(in general) thinks.Saddens me.
Funnily enough,the change seems to be just over the past 20/30 years..Must be about the time when computers were born to explain everything to us.
24/7 greed culture with only ourselves in mind.Bit of war in the background and a potential World War III that could be started by any number of suspect countries.
Makes you wonder if God fancies cleaning up the earth a bit,with a little help from a self destructive world population.
Sorry no science input and if it is a bit deep, but I am afraid none of us have the ability to explain pre big bang and the thread sums up how I feel society(in general) thinks.Saddens me.
Funnily enough,the change seems to be just over the past 20/30 years..Must be about the time when computers were born to explain everything to us.
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Originally Posted by **************
There has to have been something before the big bang as otherwise the big bang couldn't have occured. The bang couldn't have happened if the gases didn't exist. Thats what I mean by it being incomprehensible.
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Originally Posted by MY93WRX
Prove that wasn't what God wanted to happen.
#52
Originally Posted by lozgti
I believe in God.Certainly we live in a far more Godless society.No day of rest,Sundays as busy as every other day with everyone out doing the shopping.
24/7 greed culture with only ourselves in mind.Bit of war in the background and a potential World War III that could be started by any number of suspect countries.
Makes you wonder if God fancies cleaning up the earth a bit,with a little help from a self destructive world population.
Sorry no science input and if it is a bit deep, but I am afraid none of us have the ability to explain pre big bang and the thread sums up how I feel society(in general) thinks.Saddens me.
Funnily enough,the change seems to be just over the past 20/30 years..Must be about the time when computers were born to explain everything to us.
24/7 greed culture with only ourselves in mind.Bit of war in the background and a potential World War III that could be started by any number of suspect countries.
Makes you wonder if God fancies cleaning up the earth a bit,with a little help from a self destructive world population.
Sorry no science input and if it is a bit deep, but I am afraid none of us have the ability to explain pre big bang and the thread sums up how I feel society(in general) thinks.Saddens me.
Funnily enough,the change seems to be just over the past 20/30 years..Must be about the time when computers were born to explain everything to us.
Belief in a god does not make a person peace loving it would seem.
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Originally Posted by lozgti
I believe in God.Certainly we live in a far more Godless society.No day of rest,Sundays as busy as every other day with everyone out doing the shopping.
24/7 greed culture with only ourselves in mind.Bit of war in the background and a potential World War III that could be started by any number of suspect countries.
24/7 greed culture with only ourselves in mind.Bit of war in the background and a potential World War III that could be started by any number of suspect countries.
Makes you wonder if God fancies cleaning up the earth a bit,with a little help from a self destructive world population.
Sorry no science input and if it is a bit deep, but I am afraid none of us have the ability to explain pre big bang and the thread sums up how I feel society(in general) thinks.Saddens me.
Sorry no science input and if it is a bit deep, but I am afraid none of us have the ability to explain pre big bang and the thread sums up how I feel society(in general) thinks.Saddens me.
Funnily enough,the change seems to be just over the past 20/30 years..Must be about the time when computers were born to explain everything to us.
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Originally Posted by NotoriousREV
The universe isn't infinite, just so big as to seem infinite (to us, at least). I reckon our universe is merely a gluon within someone else atom
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Originally Posted by **************
It has to be infinite otherwise how is the end point/boundary defined and what is that end point made of? Where there is a wall there has to be something the other side of it.
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Originally Posted by TonyG
So, if there is an Intelligent Designer (or God if you like), who designed him/her/them?
#59
Originally Posted by **************
It has to be infinite otherwise how is the end point/boundary defined and what is that end point made of? Where there is a wall there has to be something the other side of it.
If you're floating in the middle of the ocean, I should imagine you'd consider it infinite if you couldn't reach the shore
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Originally Posted by **************
It has to be infinite otherwise how is the end point/boundary defined and what is that end point made of? Where there is a wall there has to be something the other side of it.