paulg1979

iTrader: (1)

Ben44. We are not cowbows and I don't earn £300 everyday. We are very effeciant window cleaners and any abseiler who earns £80 a day needs to think about getting a new job. I work is on price and if we get it done in a shorter time then yes we can earn upto £300 a day and have done on many occasions. Onto the rigging!! What we have backed off there is easily strong enough and is shared over 3 objects which brings the pulling forces down to a minimum! Before you jump to conclusions that is just back up, you can not see any further down the lines to see we have another anchor. Next! the cordened off area. You can not even see below us in the picture to comment. There are plenty of BRIGHT YELLOW cones below the working area!! We have been doing this job for many years and do not need anybody telling me how to do my job. Why would I want to risk my life just to clean some windows. I'm still here I can't have done much wrong. If I was on £80 a day I don't think i'd be driving a nice Impreza do you? £80 Thats slavery!!

7 Foot

Don't get dragged into it Paul.

He's come onto your thread called you a load of names and he's just trying to score points now with added assumptions.

Spending more time responding to the negative "stinky bait" posts than the good ones will only p1ss you off in the end.

ben44

Hmm, looks like the public below you there...

Sorry fella, but people like you give our industry a bad name. LOLER states that each lifting point is inspected and tagged every 6 months by a competent person. When was that hand rail pull tested last?

By cutting corners you not only risk your life, but others around you. It makes it impossible for people to price for work against you, as we have to take into account these things.

People know this how many abseilers work and as such believe we all do. I have to convince alot of people that its not the whole industry thats like it, just a few 'look at me' boys.

As for £300 a day.......

stressymare

hats of to you lads

like **** could i do that

PG

Yet you post on SN ! The one place you are likely to find people who know everything about anything but know nothing.

blubs

Yet another.....read the initial post, then go to last page to see resultant slanging match.......I know better...you r sh1te...blah de blah.

This is the great part about being a member of this forum.

Keep your posts to a minimum and then watch a completely innocent interesting post be completely pulled to pieces.

It does not matter whether it's "My dog is cute", or "This is a my chalk drawing of Whistler's Mother".

End result the same.

Great enterntainment though

wacky.banana

Paul,

Not bothered to read all the posts but my reaction is - why don't you use a long bloody pole like evreybody else does to clean their windows? Why be a hero and hang off the bottom of a crappy rope made from Womens knicker elastic?

Blood fools, you and your mate. It's people like you that put my house insurance up. ****! Don't post on here again.

WB












....and for those who missed the irony, etc,.....

CooperS

I also see that one one of the pics, he's breaking the LOLEC reg 1.1 from section 2 paragraph 5 of not using a silicon tipped squeegy...

paulg1979

iTrader: (1)

Sorry mate but its not people like us who reck the industry. The pavement cannot be seen in this picture which is closed off. Like I said before why does it matter if they are not tested. They are not my main anchorage, if anything i'm being oversafe by using them as well as a main anchorage. I'm not going to risk my life just to keep a clients windows shiney am I? Anyway I'm not taken the bait anymore. Like the others have said you can write about anything and there is always someone who has to start an argument. I'm still here, i've been doing it years and I have never had any near misses or pulled anything off the roof. Do you come from up north by any chance?

danwrx1980

Ihave done a lot of rock climbing and abseiling and wouldn't have aproblem doing this job. But a bungee jump would be well out of the question!!!!!!!! The thought of it scares me to death!!!!!!!!

By the way, nice rig, the ropes are well positioned, all equal length so no one rope takes any more stress than the others.

Why do you use the really old carabiners, the HEAVY ones? Suppose it doesn't matter as much as you aren't carrying them up are you?

paulg1979

iTrader: (1)

Agree with you mate, I wouldn't ever bungee jump!! I think its the free falling that would scare me. We use the heavy ones as they need to conform to EN362 and to find aluminium ones are rare and cost alot more money. We do have a couple of aluminium ones but the steels are more robust.

ben44

Funny that, I thought that about you

At the end of the day your taking chances, breaking laws, causing our industry to get a bad name and more than likely gonna live but hurt someone else.

Knowing the EN standard for a karibener (available on the net) but a distinct lack of knowledge regarding lifting says it all. I'll agree your rigging is equally loaded. The fact its incorrectly anchored is more of an issue.

Use your brain, by doing it properly you could actually make more money..... Unless your brain dead

Who do you work for? Your so sure what you do is ok, you wont mind saying will you?

logiclee

I'm an electrical engineer but work in a highly dangerous environment as well as with electricity, yesterday I was re-suspending 11kV cable in a 675M shaft. I deal with the HSE on a nearly weekly basis and as such have been on many a H&S course including IOSHH and NEBOSH on top of my Engineering degree (including legislation).
What you are doing breaks many laws and the building owners/operators must be turning a blind eye just to get their windows done at the price you offer.
Even light objects dropped from height can be fatal so there needs to be proper exclusion zones setup on the ground and that's before we start looking at your harness arangements.
Try and be safe and look after the public on the ground.

Cheers
Lee

paulg1979

iTrader: (1)

Its not incorrectly anchored as them 3 points are back up. My main ancourage is a dead weight trolley which holds 6 x 25kg weights (which cannot be seen in the pic). This = 300kg plus the trolley itself. But we always back off other bits even if it is not tested. Its just safer that way. I work for myself and I don't think i'd need to check the internet for EN no. I've been doing it a few years now.

The reason I asked if you were up north is because last time we were up north and told a couple of blokes the money we were on they seemed pretty bothered by it too. If u ever want any work done just let me know, I just know you'd love to have me on your firm. I might even abseil over the edge on a piece of cotton!

ben44

A funny ****** with it!

300kg you say? You must be the man then

As for working for me.... Not a hope in hell. You might be self employed, but I bet you contract mainly to a company.... If you knew the building managers then you'd be on a bit more than £300 a day

So come on, who are they? Why be so worried about saying??

As for being bothered about you 'earning' £300 a day, I'm more bothered about the long term damage to our industry and my long term income.

Why can't you just do things correctly? There would be less danger to yoursef and others, and you'd probally earn abit more.

What level IRATA ticket did you take that showed you how to wear your hat on your ****? Or did they say "cover you brain with this hat" Easy mistake to make I suppose....

ben44

I'm so sorry, just re read your post 6 x 25kg weights = 300kg

Please, go get another job

paulg1979

iTrader: (1)

Fair play!! My mistake. I meant 150 KG its just that we use one each so I'm always talking 300KG as it slows the van right down. Why can't you get over it. Dead weight trolley and 3 back up points. You know for a fact its well safe its just too late for you to admit your wrong. Just jumped to conclusions. Fair enough about the hat we should of had them on but it was so cold and had wooly hats and hoods on but that can't harm anyone else. I work for lots of companies. I'm very successful and haven't ruined it for anybody its just that some people are just crap!! and can't keep a job for longer than a month!!

ben44

You really think 150kgs would keep you hanging if your main line broke and you shock loaded your safety!!!!

Please, I beg you, **** off and get a job you'd be safe at. Stop ruining the rope access game.

I know whats safe and I know what the law requires. You seem to struggle on the first and second part.

Again, get another job

paulg1979

iTrader: (1)

Yep sure would. Dead weight trolley plus backup. I think you need get a new job. Your mad. Just face it you wrong and can't admit it. DEAD WEIGHT TROLLEY. Take it you have never seen one before. They rest againts walls. 3 points, dead weight trolley against a wall. emmmmmmmmmmmmm!! You never know if i fell onto my back up line I might pull all 3 points and drag the dead weight trolley through the wall and crash to the floor.

Thanks for the concern but I do know what I'm doing. Maybe I could send you a pic of a dead weight trolley and you might understand.

ben44

I give up. Carry on ****ing yourself and every other abseiler up in pursuit of your £300 a day.

Carry on rigging from untested points, breaching LOLER reg's, endangering the public, using your dead weight anchor against a brick wall, you obviously know what your doing

But I'd like to know you views on this...

If your kid or Mrs is walking down a road minding their own business and they look up and see a bloke looking good, but he drops something on them. What would you think/do?

paulg1979

iTrader: (1)

Look I give up too. Lets just leave it. The grounds cordened off. I can't cover myself anymore. I've never hurt anybody and never will. I'm off to bed!!

Chip

You hope!

Chip

Tim-Grove

lol at the SN high horses. It’s amazing how they all go in for the kill once one has the first bite. It’s like watching a load of piranhas feeding.

logiclee

Yes but you can see why Ben gets worked up.

Firm (A) tells building manger he will need to install proper suspension points that need to be tested and re-tested evey six months, while work is taking place the pavement will be fenced off. Safety guys will have to come in and do risk assessments, resue plans etc etc, you know the sort of thing. Firm (A) will also have to factor in the cost of keeping all their equipment in date, tagged and inspected and the cost of keeping records on all their equipment which is required under the Work at Hieght egulations 2005. Price = expensive.

Firm (B) tells building manager, no problem we'll suspend off the hand railing and vent units and put out a few cones on the pavement. Price = cheap.

You'll probably find most building managers haven't had dealings with the HSE or been in court for HSE issues so will probably go for Firm (B).

The USA has just killed a shaftsman, a 12mm nut (Smaller than a wheel nut) fell 100M down a shaft went straight though the workmans helmet and his skull, very small light items can cause seriuos injury when accelerated for long enough by gravity. 67 UK workers died in falls from height in 2004 and over 4000 were injured. The HSE are rightly prosecuting employers under H&S laws when workers are killed. Kill a member of the public and a manslaughter charge is on the cards.

Cheers
Lee

Chip

Agree with Lee. It does seem that the way the job has been carried out is quite unprofessional. The HSE would have a field day if they inspected the standard of work that is being carried out in those pics. I am involved in high risk activities most days in my job and the amount of checks, paperwork,RA's,method statements that we have to do/work to on every single job is a pain but does ultimately result in a safer working environment.

Chip

Tim-Grove

If you ask me any firm who put contract workers on price are asking for trouble. It just encourages the guys out on the front line to cut corners to earn a decent wage. Think about it, they don’t get sick pay, holiday pay, pension, transport and can be hired and fired at the drop of a hat. So what happens is they have to work as fast as possible and cram in as much into the day as they can not taking breaks and as you say cutting corners. And all in the name of earning a reasonable wage.

Who’s at fault there???? The workers?? The company??? The building management??? Answer all of them. The whole culture of business now is totally fooked up. Most firms (big and small) claim to take the matter of safety first. Do they bollox they take the matter of profit first, everything else comes later. Everyone seems to want to pass they buck when it comes to safety and I think everyone should take responsibility not just the guy on the front line.


I always say price work is rough work and if everyone wants to follow every single health and safety regulation to the absolute letter they’re gona have to pay for it.

Simple as.

Chip

Tim's right, most accidents that happen in our industry involve sub-contractors who are always trying to cut thast corner to get the job done and move on to the next one.

Chip

Tim-Grove

yeah but what im saying its not 100% their fault. Everyone should take the rap for it

Chip

Tim,
It is their fault when they know that they are doing something that they should not be doing.

Chip

paulg1979

iTrader: (1)

Its not our thought tim your right. What i'm confused about is i've explained what we have rigged off. There is no danger in what we have done. Everyone who is aiming this at us should think again! (Anyone who wants to comment read the recent posts. WE HAVE NOT JUST GONE OFF 3 POINTS!!) Bloody hell its like talking to a load of thick *****. Stop posting stupid posts if you do not know what you are talking about. So I suppose if I rigged off an RSJ I might be taking a risk as it hasn't been tested!! (NO!) Dead weight trolleys have test certificates and are tested on a regular basis!! Please just get over it. I couldn't be safer!!!