lpski1

Paul, i dont know why you rise to them, this is NSR, everyone is better than the next person. Ben is probably writing his CV right now as he dont earn the cash that you do

lol.

paulg1979

iTrader: (1)

I know what you mean mate but it annoys me when I'm accused of crap! How many times do I need to explain myself. I've seen cowboy window cleaners hanging out of windows with no harness and walking ledges. I'm far from that. I worked with some scary abseilers in my time who rigged of one point and have refused to work with them again. I will ignore anyting else I read now. Cheers mate

lpski1

stick him on your ignore list, it works a treat.

logiclee

Paul,

Not having a go at you directly in my previous post, it's just I can sympathise with people who get upset that they don't get jobs because they are expensive due to sticking to the letter of the law.

For me it's not an option as we are too closely inspected by the HSE, when I have sub-contractors in it's sometimes eye opening as to what they think is "acceptable". We have just made one of our control room men redundant and the existing control room men sometimes have to cover our medical room. As a result someone has contacted the HSE and upto yet we have had two HSE inspectors visit for two full days and things are very much up in the air.

It's very easy for the office workers to dismiss H&S as the coffee being to hot or the chair collapsing is as dangerous as it gets. Do a job where people are hurt regularly because of the environment and nature of the job and safety becomes No1 priority.

Cheers
Lee

paulg1979

iTrader: (1)

Totally understand where your coming from. Its always the way. If there is an health and saftey issue at a site. Its only got to be something minor, The HSE will be on the case and could go on for a life time.

I'm not disagreeing with what your saying as saftey is so important its just I didn't like it aimed at me. Instead of people jumping to conclusions they should ask first. I would never in a million years rig off something and hope that half way down it might come away. This is my life we are talking about.

In some jobs people may bend the rules to get work done quicker and get the money but in our occupation you only get one go at it.

Thanks

Paul

CooperS

This pissing contest is hilarious!!

logiclee

I've missed the p****** contest.

Thought the discussion has been about unsafe/safe/legal/pricing.

Cheers
Lee

CooperS

Nope, aparently there are LOLER regs regarding pissing now

logiclee

Depends whether you pi55 from height or whether you need lifting equipment to take a pi55.

Cheers
Lee

CooperS

I need at least 2 anchor points

pete1977

Im really glad the sad ***** from HSE have no call over my job.Nice pics

Chip

If you work in the UK then they do, and why do you call them sad.

Chip

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

He's already said numerous times that it's cordoned off below ...

ben44

Cheers for the comments guys.

Window cleaning by Abseil in London (and a fair few other city's) has become so cut throat that this type of thing is happening all the time. The bit that p!sses me off is their reputation is rubbing off onto our side of things (Installation of the glass etc)

At the moment, anyone can pay £650 and get a ticket in a week!! They then assume that this makes them fully qualified in every trade known to man. It also places them well above LOLER reg's and all HSE reg's. They are trained that because they have 2 ropes they can't fall to the ground. Unfortunatly they arn't trained on any type of rigging in this week! Most learn this on the job by watching other people.

In some respects, Paul can't be blamed for his lack of knowledge, IRATA themselves should. The quicker the HSE gets round to doing a proper CITB ticket the better. Hopefully it will improve the game.

And for your info Paul, I did know 2 workers that are now dead from not doing things correctly. I'm try constantly to make sure this doesn't happen to one of my workers, maybe you should consider doing the same...

logiclee

I think the thread has moved on a bit now mate.

But it depends on what you believe cordoned off means. I said a fenced exclusion zone. Paul says he uses cones which would not be sufficient for us or I suspect for the HSE, the general public tend to walk round cones and carry on. Cones and zone tape would probably be OK but not cones on there own.

Cheers
Lee

ben44

Have seen what window cleaners consider cordoned off? It normally involves a 'men working over head' sign and a bit of red and white tape if their feeling rich (They cost a whole £5 a real!). HSE expect's you to use solid barriers to make it harder for kids to wander into your exclusion zone. They also expect the cordon to be marshelled.

From that height, actually hitting the pavement below you if you dropped something, would be quite an achievement BTW

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Lee.

Agree with you fella.

Main Entry: cordon
Function: transitive verb
: to form a protective or restrictive cordon around -- usually used with off

I work in the construction industry so HSE have large involvement also.

TX.

ben44

Your right, I don't earn the cash he does

baz69birds

got dizzy just looking at the PICTURES

Gulp Gulp.

Chip

No-ones saying that they are better than anyone else. some were just merely pointing out that the system in use by Paul was not up to the standards that are required for a safe job to be carried out.

Chip

pete1977

I dont work in the UK .Ok maybe sad ***** was a little strong,i was drunk when i wrote that.

Chip

That's OK then, I'll excuse you for being drunk

Chip

paulg1979

iTrader: (1)

Thats funny. Lack of knowledge. Some buildings actually moan if we put red and white tape out as its not good for the companies image. Now thats mad!!

V1CK1

Pink tape would look nice

CooperS

There's too much red tape involved with making a pavement safe these days


boom boom

danwrx1980

Here's a question for everyone, I know its not in the same ilk but please bear with me...

How many people have been rock climbing?
Out of those how many of you do it on a regular basis?

Ok, so now I guess we're down to a very small number.
So, you're dangling off the side of a crag, 40 - 60 metres up, and you're trying to put your next peice of protection in (thats the thing that stops you falling all the way to the bottom, you only fall as far as your last peice).

As you're quite high (and rather unfit ) your hands are knackered and you slip, falling about 6 - 8 feet.
What happens then is your last peice of protection hasn't been tested by HSE less than 6 months ago, and it contravenes LOLER regs (WTF?) so you pull it out. And the next one, coz guess what, as its only been there 5 mins HSE haven't got round to it yet. And the next one (only been there about 7 mins) and so on all the way down with a dink at each peice. You fall on poor old Mr Bloggs who happens to be out walking with his mrs, 2.4 kids and his retreiver.

Damn those HSE types eh?

What my point is is that the anchors in these pictures look bomb proof to me, I'd love some anchors like that when I'm hanging off a cliff by my little fingernail!!!

And the other thing is, the guy says he's coned the street off, and as far as I could see all his equipment was attached to him.

Whatever you do in life you run the risk of having (causing?) an accident, thats the very nature of accidents.

Its a very sad day when a guy who enjoys his work can't post up a couple of pictures of his job on here without the HSE coming to play.

FFS.

(Just my opinions by the way, this is not an opinion of scoobynet or any of its moderators or affiliates)

ben44

You kind of miss the point Dan, LOLER regs do not cover what people wish to do to themselves as a hobby. If you want to kill yourself, then go ahead.

If your boss asked you to do something dangerous at work, you would quite rightly tell him to **** off. The law is there to try to stop employeers put their staff in danger.

Paul, on the other hand, is skirting round those laws with a typical climber's attitude (That will hold me, I'm a climber, I'm the greatest). By doing so he is making life very hard for us above board companies to do it correctly. (They undercut at every corner)

So, since he is making my life difficult with getting work and is posting up rubbing my nose in about how he's doing it, he's fair game

logiclee

The HSE and the regs are designed to keep you safe while at work, you can kill yourself how you like at the weekend but you may still face a civil action if you injure anyone else.
Remember some employers will gladly risk the lives of their employees given half the chance, would we rather be like China that kills tens of thousands of heavy industry workers every year?
Lets just take one suspension point, say the hand railing, looks fine but how do we know the installation guys didn't have a problem with the hole so used a short bolt, did the manufacturing process go OK or are there any fractures in the weld? This is why the regs insist on pull tested susupension points, anything else and you are trusting your life to an unknown.
We also have to take into account that 99% of the general public are stupid. Put a cone on a pavement with a sign and they may look up but most will walk round the cone and carry on rather than cross the road. An exlusion zone must have something physical to stop the public entering, so either tape, barriers or fencing.
In law it wouldn't be the publics fault either, some years ago a guy broke into a substation which was locked and had "Danger high voltage" on the door. He died but the owners of the sub were prosecuted because the grounds were not totally secure, there was a hole in the fencing. Also the family won their civil action because although the sign warned of high voltage it didn't say that would kill him.
Most substation signs now say "Warning High Voltage - Danger of Death"

Cheers
Lee

Tim-Grove

Something like that happened to my company a few years back. Two gypsies broke into a substation and decided that it would be a good idea to take the top off the transformer to get at the copper inside. Boom!!! Two dead gypsies and a nice HSE fine for our place because the steel chain and lock wasn’t sufficient security.

ben44

Had some lads working in a sub station the other day. The guy from the leccy board told me the same story. IIRC 1 of them was melted to the top of the unit