JTaylor

We'll have Catholic schools before you know it!

JTaylor

So that's that important dialogue wiped for ever. Problem: racism prevelant amongst car enthusiasts on forum. Solution: delete the posts.

De ja vu

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthrea...hlight=JTaylor

Suresh

and then lock the thread discussing it....

JTaylor

If it wasn't so sad and all that..............

Leslie

I think the basic answer is to get a real understanding of the tenets of the Scouting movement. The whole idea mooted by Lord Baden Powell was to to be completely inclusive, to use the modern "office speak" term, to teach children how to fend for themselves, give them enjoyable and educative things to do with their time, to think about others instead of only about themselves, to get on with others from all backgrounds and faiths, to help others when they need it, and to teach leadership in a sensible manner, etc.

I suggest that instead of scraping the barrel for objections to the Muslim Scout troop because of what would appear to be an irrational hate, and stating criticisms which have no foundation as yet, since it is not stated that English will not be used nor that non Muslims will not be eligible to join, that you look up the real aspirations and ideals of the Scouting movement.

To form an official Scout troop they will have to follow the full guidance of the Scouting movement. If they don't the troop will be dumped so to speak.

Let me remind you that the Scouting movement is a world wide organisation and actively encourages meetings between different ethnic groups at such events at Jamborees etc. The whole basic idea is to promote World harmony.

Why not stop all this unecessary carping and give them a chance. If it turns out that they don't follow non racist ideals or that they encourage illegal or unpleasant behaviour in any way, then you have a right to moan. Making assumptions as so many have in this thread is unfair and for that matter goes against the principles that you claim to uphold!

You should at least have a true foundation on which to base such unpleasant criticisms.

The remark I was complaining about in my previous post was shameful in that it was made without any kind of basis of truth, and was by no means meant as a joke, sick or otherwise.

Les

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

I was in the scouts for 20 years as a Scout, Venture, scout leader then venture leader.

Yes you have to believe in A GOD, and swear allegence to the Queen and god.

Teh scout promise is

It says God, all religons have A GOD maybe not all the same god but god never the less, technically the only people that are bared from joining scouts are athiests, because they can not fullfill the scout promise.

I do not see a problem with an all Muslim Scout group apart from the not intergrating with society but staying segregated bit.

Rizza81

I wish I had the opportunity to read the post, you have pointed out.

I hate to make assumptions, but with a title like that.... I find it hard to imagine that anything constructive was being said or going to be said. In addition, with it being posted on the internet, we both know that it is only going to descend into a slanging match. This does not do anybody any good...

Which is a shame because I would like to try my best to educate the bigoted, small minded folk of this world that hate only breeds more hate, which then at some point is going to lead to anger, which then leads to violence... and we know there is far to much of that in this world as it is.

Mungo

Hallelujah! (and the Moslem/Jewish/Sikh/Hindu/Jain etc equivalents...) somebody finally has got the point that GOD does not distinguish whose god it is that scouts are believing in.

JTaylor

To be fair it was just a couple of insensitive and inappropriate references to Muslim extremists practices. Of course, with the deletion of the comments the pratagonists can no longer be exposed for the unthinking morons they are.

Rizza81

To bring this back on topic... My fault I know... Sorry.

A close friend of the family who currently serves in the Armed Forces (He is a Muslim) is a scout leader. Through him, I have had the chance to meet some of the young lads that are a part of this organisation, and I cannot say a bad word against them. In fact, they take a keener interest in integrating with different communities then most people of my age.

Having seen first hand how well run they are, I would definitely consider encouraging any children I have to join such groups.

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

Just as another though, the thing that bothers me about it is these groups are trying to stay exclusively Muslim, which is fundamentally against the Scout equal opportunities policy. There is also currently a bit of a fight going on in some groups about having to allow girls into units that don't want them.

And just for anyones interest I was the Leader of Rafiki/Taurus VSU in Berkshire for many years if any of you have heard of them

Rizza81

I was actually thinking to myself whether it was actually hatred towards Pakistanis, or Muslims. I guess that shows how ignorant he is, not know that people of all different backgrounds are Muslims. Oh well...

BexTait

Which adds to my point, why don't they just join existing groups, by having their own, it's almost as if they're trying to segregate themselves.

Rizza81

How do you know that they are trying direct themselves exclusively for Muslims?

Reading from people who seem really clued up on this subject; this is against their rules... Like you said yourself. And if that were the case, they would not be part of the scouts...

zakk

i suspect one of the reasons why theres a muslim only scout group is that small children dont have to put up with implicit small minded bigotry and downright racism which exists amongst people such as some of those who have posted in this thread. You know who you are.

I say good luck to them: you can have catholic and jewish schools and scout groups so why not muslim? Beacuse you hate them more than the others? You keep talking about if white people did this there'd be an outcry, well 2 points:

1. You have! Ever heard of the National front?! Or BNP?!!

2. Unlike some of the members of this forum and the above groups, Islam is not racist and white people would be welcome in a a muslim scout group as long as they were muslim; whereas if a black person was the most devout christian he would never be accepted by the afore metioned groups.

I know all you xenophobes out there want any excuse to have a go at minorities under the guise of political correctness gone mad, but try as you might you cant bring back the 1970s, except through your sense of fashion!

Tiggs

these are just kids that want to hang around with their mates in a familiar enviroment...whats the big deal? who are they hurting? They certainly arent being offensive to anyone which is more than can be said for some comments on here.

maybe some had tried the "normal" scout group and found the parents of the other kids where fcukwits that suggested they must be 7 year old suicide bombers because they had a rucksack?

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

And a Muslim would be welcome in a Normal scout troop regardless of race, creed or colour, with no need to be anything else, however only being welcome in a muslim group if you are muslim is racist and segregative in my opinion.

JTaylor

It's about freedom of choice isn't it? If a Muslim boy wants to join a culturally diverse group then great. If he wishes to join a group that focuses on his religion (which it's not really about, he'll be playing British Bulldog and sewing socks) but still intergrates with the movement completely in the broader sense then he has that choice. The beauty of living in a liberal democracy .

About the sex thing, is it not part of the traditional seperation designed to focus attention on personal development and away from the destraction of the opposite sex? Girl Guides - Boy Scouts. Different discussion I guess.

JTaylor

Oh I see, you were referring to the deleted thread in the link. Really difficult from a mods point of you because it was really out of order - it would have taken guts or an unwillingness to censor to have kept it live.

Edited to add: same answer as post 39

Rizza81

Wurzel, I just would like to know how you came to this conclusion. That people of a different religion would not be welcome. Are you a member of a Muslim Scout group? Do you know how they are run?

I'm going to speak to this family friend, hopefully later on about why they have a seperate group for muslims. But to me it seems like its just about basic things like food (Muslims only being able to eat Halal meat), making time for them to read their prayers... etc Nothing sinister...

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

This is a hard one to answer, when I was a scout in a single sex troop and was told that girls could now join it did not really bother me.

I had friends in Guides who were pissed off at what we did in comparison to what they did. The problem was the girls sections concentrated on out dated ideals that girls should still sew and cook etc whilst the boys went out and did what boys do best. There came a time where guides had to either change its ideals or lose the girls to other things like girls brigade or Red cross etc. The guides seemed unwilling to change its ways, which is why our venture unit was 50-50 as teh girls leaving guides did not want to goto rangers as it was more of the same old pony.

I have no problem with mixed troops, personally I think it is a good think provided the girls commit rather than wimp out, it will give boys and girls equal opportunities to grow and develop at the same rate and hopefully respect each other more, it will teach girls that they are stronger and tougher than they think they are. I do not think that splitting up boys and girls is a key to personal development, let them develop together with similar interests and abilities, afterall we are not in the 1800s anymore. Whether men like it or not women are becoming a force to be reckoned with and mutual respect for each other should be taught at an early age.

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

I was only replying zakks very words.

these are zakks very words not mine!!

Rizza81

Yeah sorry... Should have been clearer.

I am going to leave this thread for a bit. This message board malarkey can be bloody addictive...

Enjoy your afternoon people.

Rizza81

My apologies Wurzel.

Zakk any comment to make on that? Because I dont see how anyone knows for definite its run like that.

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

No worries

JTaylor

Completely agree. Perhaps some parents happen to be devout Muslims and also a fan of the movement. Presumably they asked the Council if they could set up a group which supported Muslim practices and they said yes. Now young Muslim men have the choice, the parents are happy and, dare I say it, more intergrated. 1st Crownhill used to knock around with other groups/packs all the time.

JTaylor

Nice one

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

*Covers hand over mouth to avoid making the obvious joke about muslim scounts being just like the non-muslim scouts except they have a proficency badge for sewing............................................ ....... weapons into your clothes...etc....etc... *

Ns04

salsa-king

did they go on St Georges day parade yesterday tho!!

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

I dont see where it says "Muslim Only".

A Muslim scout group is no more wrong or right than a Christian one.

I'm sure non-Muslims will feel about at home in a Muslim Scout group as a Muslim does in a church run Christian Scout group.

Some views on here are shocking.