New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Yep, but when you think about it the whole concept of Scouts is Shocking!

I'd have liked to have been in a room when good Ol' Baden Powell told his mates about the idea for Scouts:

Baden: "Hey guys, I've got a great idea for this new movement for kids, I'm calling it the Scouts"

His mates: "Nice one one Baden, what does this idea involve?"

Baden: "Well, we gather groups of boys up, put them in shorts and then take them to a forest!"

His mates: "Count me out Baden" *uncomfortable Silence*




Ns04

Brit_in_Japan

I can't believe some of the dangerous twaddle I've read in this thread.

I don't know where to start with this.
Muslim speaking? You think there is a language called "Muslim"?
When you say "england will not become english anymore", what do you mean? Do you see any irony in the fact that as someone who appears to be patriotically English, your knowledge of your own language is somewhat lacking? How far back in history do you want to go to define a time when England was really English? The original peoples of these islands were the Brythonic tribes, the original Britons. They spoke Welsh. The Saxons came from modern day Germany. The Normans invaded in 1066. There have been waves of immigrants into the UK from 16th century onwards. One of the strengths of England is the ability to accept change, to welcome others into the culture and adopt the best parts.

As for nationality, check what's written on your passport (if you've been brave enough to ever venture into foreign lands), it says it's the United Kingdom of Great Britian and Northern Ireland. Your nationality isn't going to change even if the culture in the UK shifts, which is not necessarily a bad thing. If we had to eat only "traditional" British foods that were the staple say 40 years ago, it would be much more of a chore. Welcome people of the world, bring your best foods with you, please!


English is the world's most universal language. Any kids growing up in the UK in the 21st century will be speaking English. It's a non-argument IMHO. Muslims come from many different countries and therefore speak many different languages (Farsi, Yemeni, Turkish, Algerian, Persian, Pakistani, etc), so it's highly unlikely any muslim scout group would adopt any language other than English as it would exclude Muslims who don't speak that language.

Also there appears to be some assumption that the new English scout group to be formed will exclude non-muslims. I suggest this is nonsense. Just because that one report deosn't specifically mention who is permitted to join, don't jump to conclusions. The report on the Muslim scout group being established in Cardiff specifically states that those from any background or faith are free to join. My guess this is a requirement laid down by the scouting movement, a fundamental tenet of their organisation.

If muslim parents have been reluctant to send their kids to cubs/scouts in the past, maybe because they didn't go in their youth, I see no problem in starting a more muslim friendly scout group to give them encouragement. Any organisation which encourages kids to learn new skills, be responsible members of the society in which they live, make them more independent, make them appreciate nature more and which promotes acceptance of others from different backgrounds is OK in my books.

Well done to Leslie and co for trying to inject a degree of sanity into the debate. It frightens me sometimes the knee jerked reactions you get on SN.

cw42

iTrader: (1)

Brit in Japan, a very well put together history lesson there, but unfortunatly completley wasted on the patriotic likes of watto52. I'm betting he reads the "daily sport"

Leslie

New Scooby 04,

You could at least have spelled his name correctly when you were making those unecessarily vicious and unpleasant innuendos.

You must have a strange sense of humour since there was nothing even remotely witty about your post.

Les

Brit_in_Japan

It has words?

cw42

iTrader: (1)

Just!

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

I'm sorry you found my Post offensive Les, but my comments were intended as a joke, hence the excessive use of smilies! Come on mate, someone with your post count should realise by now that not everything said on SN is to be taken seriously!

You may not have found it amusing, but since when did you have the definitive word on what constitutes good humour? Lighten up, please!!

And on the subject of spelling!!!!

Ns04

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Yes:

"Melanie, 21, watford".
"Jane, 22, Bristol"

Just go back to looking at the pictures; you're not missing much!

HTH!!

CrisPDuk

Well, after reading a total of 68 posts over 3 pages, some very reasonable, some downright stone age in their reasoning, I can't believe that nobody has spotted the one major reason Muslims probably don't attend existing scout troops.

Scouting may not be a Christian organisation as such, but the vast majority of troops in this country are based in the ancilliary buildings of Christian places of worship, and have names that reflect this. I admit that this is probably a function of historical convenience, rather than an attempt at religious indoctrination from an early age, but it is still a fact.

PS: I was always under the impression that, far from being different, Allah, Jehovah & God were actually one and the same

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Agreed, but I don't see why entering such a building for the purposes of participating in something other than religious activity should be a problem.

Unless, of course, it's an issue of perception i.e. It's a building affiliated with the Christian religion, thus it must always be involved in representing Christianity??

Nothing a little education can't solve. The purpose of the Scouts was to unite.

Unlike some religions, it seems!

Ns04

davegtt

Erm, forgive my ignorance but when I was a cub and scout (going back upto 20 years ago now) we were encouraged to attend church on sundays.... I can fully see why a muslim would not join the traditional scout groups.

Daft Lad

Strange, don't remember that myself, must have been in one of the less-religous scout troops!

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

I didn't go much, but I do recall being encouraged to worship..... but within the teachings of whatever faith I believed in! Even if attending church on Sundays was suggested, they could decline this part of the experience- it wasn't compulsory.

They made us sing hyms when I was in primary school!! blimey, how times have changed.

Ns04

Daft Lad

LOL, must have been just me not paying attention then!!

davegtt

Also, as a side note, When I was applying to go to secondary school, I tried to get into a small but one of the top school. It was a Church of England school and you got points for attending church, points for being in the cubs (does this have any relevance?) and points for other things to determine if you could attend the school.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Too busy reading the Daily Sport eh??

Ns04

BillyBong

I do remember being encouraged to attend Church when I was a cub/scout. I can see y muslims would not want to do this and would be as uncomfortable in a Christian religious building as I would be in an Islamic one. I have always believed (perhaps wrongly) that Scouting is based on Christian beliefs anyway but due to all the PC BS there is these days you have to say the organisation is open to all cultures, faiths etc just so as not to be branded as racists.

And we would get a bo locking if we missed too many "Church Parades" as they were called so it wasn’t really optional for us.

Brit_in_Japan

There was never any mention of church or religion at the cubs/scouts group I went to. If there had been, I probably wouldn't have gone on principle despite notionally being "christian".

The Zohan

No, nor me, ours was held at the local school and we never attended church parades as far as i remember.

Scouts could be a really good way of intergrating and getting kids to know and respect each other and give them things to do and learn given half the chance

CrisPDuk

My point exactly, we were always 'encouraged' to attend the church our troop was based at, along with our parents, boosts the takings for the old scrounging plate doesn't it. You also could pretty much kiss goodbye to your chances of ascending in the ranks if you missed any of the parades

I live in a fairly moderate, tolerant part of the country, but looking back, some of them parades sure did feel like something from Nor'n Ir'nd Deffo more prod's than paddy's

CrisPDuk

PS before anyone accuses me of religious bigotry, I am a lapsed prod, MrsD and both the stepfiends are all lapsed paddy's

Daft Lad

Too busy tying knots and playing 'bulldog' mate!

Petem95

I remember back in the day when that used to be "British Bulldog" - obviously its now just called "Bulldog" - wouldnt want anyone who isnt British getting offended

Daft Lad

pmsl We called it british bulldog at school too, think it was more a case of us being too fookin lazy to use its full name all the time TBH mate....