Reality

It's because they're northerners and don't understand Sport.

Senior_AP

Whatever the reasons, I considered it to be unsporting on Jol's part. Others don't.

the thread was never a "Arsenal are whiter than white" and why everyone took it down that route I'll never know. classic football fan mentality, defend own club by blindly attacking the other.

Reality

What's wrong with that ?

You sure you're not a closet Chelscum fan

Senior_AP

What's wrong with that? Nothing apart from it's the same mentality that people had when they were 12 years old and seems to have carried over into their teens, twenty's, thirthy's and so on.... "I don't like Drogba" would, from a chelsea fan, get a response like "Yeah but you're dad's gay, and Bergkamp is old, and Wenger is a German anyway". lol. Football, never has a game invoked such passion in people yet concurrently make people say such comical things.

Chelsea fan? No not the last time I checked. Though I respect how they play, their consistency to play the way they do is admirable in the league - however they need to be a little less, how can I say, "rigid" in europe if they ever want to do any better than they have done in the last 2 seasons.

Little Miss WRX

I didn't catch a replay of this, can anyone point me to where one may be hosted? Either that or factually state exactly what happened and what "injury" was incurred?

This is being talked about on a few referee boards with differing opinions......

cheers.

Senior_AP

2 Arsenal players collided as Spurs player got past them before a challenge was made. Gilberto was down but getting up, Eboue was, from the outset, on the deck clutching his shin and wincing - and at no point "started getting up".

Again, my gripe isn't the fact they played on - it's Jol, what he said, and the tone - it made it blatant that his thoughts were unsporting after seeing this "golden opportunity" to gain advantage.


I saw the Match Of The Day coverage, however at that point they were unaware of Jol screaming for Carrick to 'PLAY PLAY PLAY!!'. So they were backing up Spurs for playing on. At that point, the debate was open and either opinion was, to me, a fair one.

However, waking up sunday morning to hear Jol saying that just made me think HE was unsporting in his encouragemenmt to gain advantage through an opponents disadvantage.

PLAY PLAY PLAY!!! - For me, those 3 words, and the context in which they were used changed everything. Jol was blatant in seeing that opportunity through the fact 2 Arsenal players were on the deck and therefore inactive.



I'm not complaining about the goal.

I'm not complaining about the rule on this point.




I am simply saying that for a manager to get a proverbial stiffy because he saw an opportunity to score a goal in an unsporting manner, and to then scream what he did to his player to ensure FULL advantage was taken from our disadvantage showed unsporting behaviour. ON MARTIN JOL'S PART.

Listen to his tone when he shouts it, you can almost hear his brain working overtime, he shouted PLAY PLAY PLAY, he was thinking "quick Carrick quick QUICK they're on the deck and we can score from this, seriously, Eboue is on the ground so the left flank is open!!...PLAY PLAY PLAY!!".

That shows unsporting behaviour on Jol's part. If the goal had been scored without Jol screaming what he did then I'd not be too happy - but I would have no real cause for complaint.


The rules weren't at fault here, the goal was totally legitimate, a good finish from Robbie Keane it was as well - this however is not my point. As thread title, my point is Martin Jol's unsporting attitude.

I can't state this clearly enough - Martin Jol is my gripe - nothing else, not the goal, not Carrick, not davids, not Keane, not Spurs FC.

HTH.

Reality

Senior_AP has pretty much stated what actually happened. Two Arsenal players knocked into each other and fell over. Ball went to Carrick who was deciding what to do having seen the two players on the ground. Decided to play on and they scored. The ref saw what had happened and was happy for play to continue. Wenger got upset with Jol as it would appear he said to Carrick "Play Play Play" - I haven't heard the Sky "tapes".

Slightly unsporting I supose But nothing compared to that diving cheating ugly chelsea tosser Drossba .

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7Djo...purs%20arsenal

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

but it's not unsporting in anybody elses eyes but that of an Arsenal fan. Players go down with knocks all the time. The only real time the ball is put out is if it's not in an active zone such as gone back to the keeper or being played along the back 4 or the players realise the injury is serious. A bang on the shin is *** all in football.

Reality

Jol didn't see it - he must be Blind

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

Oh and please will you give your opinion on your goal then or is your head still in the sand?

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

goal in HQ with Sky com.

http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.ph...=keane_1_0.zip

Reality

Of course it's unsporting. The only question is would Arsene have done the same thing - He probably would

Senior_AP

Jol sounded like an excitable child in a playground seeing an opportunity to win a fight by kicking someone in the face while they had there back turned.

The goal itself and the actions of the spurs players I'm not complaining about. How many more times do I have to say this....really??!?!?

Senior_AP

You can CLEARLY hear Jol here on the video. Screams PLAY PLAY as soon as the Arsenal players are down (so is unaware of the extent of injury if that was anyones previous argument) then finally, after Eboue stays down, and Carrick hesitates he screams PLAAAY one last time to ensure full advantage.

The goal IS legitimate, it was fine and a good finish. The Spurs players were NOT at fault.

Jol, within the laws and rules had done nothing wrong but I stil consider his tone blatant in it's opportunism from our misfortune.

In sport, opportunism from misfortune, is a definitive example of bad sportsmanship. That is all I can say now on this matter.

Thanks for posting the vid.

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

But look how you are making it out to sound. Kicking a kid in the playground... please! FFS it's a sport played by grown men. He encourages his player to play on and yes take advantage of a situation caused by two of the opposition players running into each other. the fact he wanted to play on is not unsporting. It's people like you who are trying to sanitise the game of football.

Little Miss WRX

In my opinion, the ref checked to see they were okay, the player clutching his shin doesn't look in agony - therefore: Play on.

The times I will stop a game for injury is head injuries, in this case I see no problem with the way it was handled and as a coach I would have been yelling at my team to play too!

Senior_AP

That's fine, and I accept your opinion. We simply disagree on what we define as bad sportsmanship (on Jol's part and nobody elses).

It's good that you just said what you thought without saying "well Wenger this and Arsenal that".

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

I totally agree.

Little Miss WRX

No worries, I am a Villa fan and have to uphold our reputation of being the nicest fans around.

As for bad sportsmanship, I did an under 11's div 1 game a couple of seasons back and their star forward got tripped - in all honesty it was an accidental trip - nevertheless, it was a foul and I called it accordingly.
The player I feel was overplaying the injury (he ran pretty fine afterwards anyway!) and the coach came up to him saying "if the only way they can stop you from scoring goals is to take you out then you take them out even harder". They won the game and incurred several cautions - mainly for unsporting behaviour.....under 11's FFS! District football nothing special!

I was absolutely stunned.

Anyway, sorry to go off topic - I guess with me refereeing grass roots footbal and doing all kind of grades I see bad sportsmanship on all levels at varying degrees of severity, in the case of the Arsenal vs Spurs, if Jol's tone was as nasty as you are projecting it to be then I suppose it could border on bad sportsmanship in a way, but it would be a very mild case compared to what I have witnessed in some games I have refereed.

Senior_AP

Nice one.

Yeah, I'm sure that there are much worse cases of bad sporsmanship than this, it was just the excitable opportunism of his tone. In summary, he was happy that it happened and he saw a chance to score from misfortune that annoyed me.

Good thread though! All good.

My final question, why did he say he did not see it. Why did he say that he was talking to Davids??? If he had no doubt in his mind that his actions were acceptable surely he'd be saying "yes, I told Carrick to play on by shouting play 3 times". The fact he was cagey show's caution with his convictions.

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

The words picked up are amplified many times on the tape I've heard. so for you to decide exactly how he said something and the tone I find amazing. He may well have sounded excited but I again would be amazed if he was not stood on the touchline in one of the biggest games hes been the manager in. There are more excitable people in a Sunday league game. As for you been able to tell from the 3 words that he was happy it had happened....

messiah

My own view was that the 2 arsenal players were play-acting - so it was tough-titty when it backfired...

Senior_AP

In your view...

Does that have any bearing on Jol and what he said and the way he said it??

messiah

I havent heard what Jol said so I've only your word on it.

I'm basing my opinion on what I saw.

Senior_AP

Nothing unsporting happened from only what you can see. It's not the nicest way to score but there's no rule against it so that's life.

You have to hear A. what he said and B. How he said it.

lil_kimmy

Never mind!

COYS!

teepee

to quote senior ap 'In sport, opportunism from misfortune, is a definitive example of bad sportsmanship'
So what is misfortune?
- The goalie drops the ball, so the striker lets him pick it up? I think not.
- The defender slips, so the striker waits for him to get up. I think not.
- The players boot comes off - does play stop whilst he sorts himself out? Of course not.
- Two players collide without injury, does everyone stop and wait? Of course not.
So when a manager sees his player about to stop play for one of the above scenarios, surely it's to be expected for him to encourage his player to carry on, perhaps by saying those now infamous words 'play play play'.
And I haven't even mentioned all of the dodgy practices (AKA cheating) that seem to go on every weekend (at every level) in the modern game that REALLY are unsporting & have nothing to do with misfortune.

Reality

Finishing 4th in the PL to be put into the UEFA cup as Arsenal win the CL.

That's misfortune

teepee

agree, that is misfortune - any Everton supporter will be able to comiserate with you. I've got a Cov fan here who still holds it against L'pool for getting English clubs banned in Europe all those years ago. Let's just hope Barca/Milan do the job & your boys can have a go with the 'big' boys in Europe.