Flatcapdriver

Jack, the wind component is an essential part of the navigation element of route planning. Although wind generally 'veers' once you are clear of interruptions from the surface it is still wind, nonetheless. Once you get into the jet streams above say, FL30, then you are still subject to the wind element. Turbulence is generally a factor at lower altitudes (CAT excepting) due to the proximity of the earth and it's effect on the wind as it encounters the land and 'backs'.

There is no official speed at which any aircraft transitions from being a land vehicle to flight as there are any number of determining factors such as OAT which will effect air density, airfield elevation (the same), MTOW as determined by the actual fuel/pax load, RWY condition (if it's wet, wet, wet) for example as well as the head/cross wind component. In terms of climb performance other factors come into play such as local noise abatement procedures or more obviously the SID (Standard Instrument Departure) plus all of the aforementioned factors.

Flightman - the imminent arrival of the A-380 is most certainly about the aircraft's certification process, of which the infrastructure testing is part of. I suggest you speak to the CAA and look at how the CofA process works.

FlightMan

From the Airbus website:

The world's largest commercial airliner, the 555 seat Airbus A380, will make its British debut when it flies into London's Heathrow Airport on 18th May 2006, to carry out airport compatibility checks in conjunction with airport operator British Airports Authority (BAA). London Heathrow is likely to be the A380's first European destination when it enters scheduled service.

The aircraft, powered by four Rolls Royce Trent 900 engines, will be parking at Heathrow's new Pier 6 at Terminal 3. The 280 metre long, three-storey high pier, has aircraft stands to accommodate up to four A380s at a time and four gate-rooms which together seat 2,200 passengers. The facilities are designed to handle both very large aircraft and smaller aircraft types.

So, its coming in to test airport compatability. To you thats part of the certification process. To me, its testing the airports infrastructure. Probably different sides of the same point, wouldn't you say?

JackClark

Absolutely, I fly a very slow aircraft, the wind component today would mean I go with the wind or fly backwards and that's not a bundle of laughs.

Thanks for the extra info though, I'd say that from the discussion here and elsewhere that wind direction does not increase your climb rate. It's a difficult one to get your head around as we're land based in the main.

Flatcapdriver

Jack, what are you flying - a Harvard or Cub? I've flown backwards in a Cub, which was a hoot! As for the cerfication process, the A-380 like any other aircraft not only requires a CofA in it's country of origin but also as part of that process neccessitates it to visit airports that it will operate from in order to check RWY compatibility, terminal compliance, wake turbulence activity and any number of other checks mandated by JAA.

Are you referring to angle of climb or rate of climb because you need to get your head round those first?

JackClark

Slower than that! Bailey Aviation Snap 100, Paramania Action 25.

Funkii Munkii

JackClark

Landing Gear, not quite as bulky as the A-380.



I should be flying now, but got lazy!!

Flatcapdriver

Now I remember. We had a convo about Air Law some months ago. What it the TAS on that? Wind speed looks as if it could be critical!

JackClark

The speed depends on the trim and weight, quoted range is 23-60kph. My fastest speed over ground so far is 80mph.

I like to fly in zero wind, but you have to run like buggery to get off the ground.

Brit_in_Japan

"The take-off length is 2,900m at maximum weight at sea level, ISA +15° conditions."

That equates to 9415 ft. So by my quick calcs, the following airports could handle a maximum weight takeoff in hot conditions:-
London Heathrow
London Gatwick
London Stanstead
Manchester
East Midlands
Preswick
Campletown !

Boscombe Down & Brize Norton could also handle an aircraft of that size.

Don't forget that the centre undercarriage has 6 wheel bogies so even though it's a bigger, heavier aircraft, the load per tyre may not be much different, if anything, to a fully loaded 747-400.

sti-04!!

Prestwick

FlightMan

I think you're looking at runways there, I'm talking about the taxi-ways. None of Heathrows runways needed strenghtening, but areas of taxi-way did and runway exits had to be altered to take the a/c.

Flatcapdriver

I wouldn't call ISA hot condtions as they are only a benchmark, especially given the pressure at 1013mb at sea level to some extent are irrelevant here. As Flightman says, the issue is not of RWY length but more importantly the taxiways which not only have to have sufficient strength to take this aircraft but also have larger radius turns (increased length) and width. As far as I know, the only other UK airport that will take this aircraft in the plans is LGW with STN probably still the 'official' airfield for hijackings, especially as it takes those Antonovs on a regular basis.

FlightMan

Spot on mate. LGW is the official divert airfield. Although no pier facilities have been built there yet, so its a "long ladder" job!
Not heard anything official about STN tho.

^Qwerty^

Wind direction contributed towards the Concorde crash in Paris IIRC?

Wasn't Doncaster opened already able to take it?

nufc1892

I was on a long haul flight last year in a 747 and i thought that bugga was big.

mick

Kuohu

Does anyone know if Farnborough can handle it? I was kind of hoping (well, expecting really) the A380 to be there for the airshow this year.

Brit_in_Japan

ISA + 15°C = 30°C, which is towards the upper end of temperatures usually seen in the UK. For a transatlantic hop they wouldn't need to brim it with fuel, so wouldn't need to be anywhere near max take off weight. For longer flights then they'll be needing all the fuel they can and will be using all the runway they can !

The A380 has steerable bogies, so maybe manouvrability on the ground is not such a big issue? Given the larger footprint of the undercarriage, will the pressure on the taxi ways be any different to a fully loaded 747 or Antonov? Probably not. As for full up weight, do you have any info on A380 vs 747-400 vs Antonov ?

Blackscooby

Hells bells.... just watching some of those cross wind landings

It's the 3rd landing on this http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photoga...swind_edit.wmv one which amazes me. Looks like it's coming straight for the spectators !

Flatcapdriver

I'm just guessing about Stanstead, although it is the standard divert field in the UK for those situations.

You also have to bear in mind, that airport infrastructure is not just about the RWY/TXWY's ability to take the weight of the aircraft or the width. There is also various bits of architecture to worry about in terms of wing tip clearance, flight lines would also have to be altered to take into account the length and apron space is also at a premium.

FlightMan

Some stats below: A380 in bold

A380 versus Boeing 747
A 380- 800 Boeing B 747- 400 Overall length 73,0 m 70,7 m Overall height 24,1 m 19,4 m Wingspan 79,8 m 64,4 m Max. take off weight 560 t 397 t Range 14.800 km 13.450 km Passenger Load 555 390

Dave T-S

It's Stansted, not Stanstead. They land at Stanstead, slight problem as it's a small village about 20 miles away

Not seen an AN222 or IL76 at STN for a while now.

Brit_in_Japan

Interesting, I see what you mean, wingspan and max take off weight are definitely a step up from the 747. I look forward to seeing it at Filton in a few weeks.

Flatcapdriver

You're right. I'm more used to ICAO codes. There was a fooking big Antonov coming out of EGSS a few weeks months ago that scared the hell out of me. Looked like wake turbulence could be an issue from ten miles away.

FlightMan

Funny you quote that, because 10 miles is the figure for the A380, at the moment anyway. When you considers its less than half that for 2 747's then thats going to cause some major major problems if they can't get it the seperation down.

Dave T-S

AN222 is a scary lumbering old bus, or anything previous Russian federation for that matter! I remember flying in to EGSS in the jump seat of a Go 737 (when it was still allowed) several years back and as we were approaching 23L threshhold there was an IL76 inching its way on the taxiway towards the end of the runway. I think all three of us were thinking the same thing - stop and stay where you are you bugger!

Given that there will be, in relative terms, not that many superheavies such as the A380 in service horizontal separation in the context of airway use shouldn't be that much of an issue.

Funkii Munkii

This has always impressed me, I kniow there is also footage taken from inside the a/c itself but I cant find it, saw it on TV years ago and it has always stuck with me as a most impressive piece of flying.

http://www.aviationexplorer.com/707_roll_video.htm

FlightMan

The guy rollign that 707 is an old school test pilot. Can't remeber his name, but that roll wasn't in the test plan, obviously, and exceeded the aircrafts flight parameters. Complete nutter!

jonnyrex

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/4987862.stm
The best place is going to be from the Mall ,cribbs causeway ,walk across the dual carrigeway opp wh smith/M+S end....A38 will be jam packed with no- where to park ,saw concord's last return from there with thousands of more of us bristol folk

jonnyrex

Thursday 18th may at 12.10pm ....if i did'nt say