Hot Hatch for around £20k, which one?
02 May 2006, 01:47 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by super6four
I don't suppose you can wait till autumn? AS there is a Mazda 3 MPS coming then. Looking really good so far. Combining the best bits of the Focus (the chassis, which despite what many think is superb) and the engine from it's big brother (a de-tuned version of the 4 cyl from the Mazda 6 MPS). De-tuned being relative as it still has 247 bhp. 0-62 in 'just' over 6 seconds and a top speed of a limited 155 mph.
Also I cant see residual values being very good.
Golf GTi is probably the best bet to be honest - very good all-rounder. Second to this would be the Octavia vRS - those looks very smart (much smarter than the new Jetta), and go well too.
02 May 2006, 02:52 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by SideShowBob
What would I get better that fits all my criteria? and whats wrong with a hatch if you dont need a saloon? or want a RWD sports car?
I want something with easily accessible power, thats fun, and useable every day, even in winter, and I dont want a sensible/fun 2 car solution, so a hatch seems like the best option, plus these days hatches arent lesser cars to their bigger brothers, they have a market niche all to themselves.
Like I said, will consider a coop or similar if there's one out there that can do all the above, but dont want S2000, or 350Z, RX8 maybe, but not all that quick, and very juicy.
Boxster S would be an option, but them insurance costs go through the roof (group 20), so really, my requiremnets dont give me a very big short list.
I want something with easily accessible power, thats fun, and useable every day, even in winter, and I dont want a sensible/fun 2 car solution, so a hatch seems like the best option, plus these days hatches arent lesser cars to their bigger brothers, they have a market niche all to themselves.
Like I said, will consider a coop or similar if there's one out there that can do all the above, but dont want S2000, or 350Z, RX8 maybe, but not all that quick, and very juicy.
Boxster S would be an option, but them insurance costs go through the roof (group 20), so really, my requiremnets dont give me a very big short list.
02 May 2006, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Deano1983
You never stated what your criteria was until now
03 May 2006, 02:15 PM
#39
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I'm going to look at the new Leon 2.0 TFSI as a replacement for the Mrs' Mini Cooper.
Down about 12bhp and 9lb/ft on the Golf GTi but lighter and about seven grand cheaper than the 5-door Golf!!
£14k at www.drivethedeal.co.uk
Down about 12bhp and 9lb/ft on the Golf GTi but lighter and about seven grand cheaper than the 5-door Golf!!
£14k at www.drivethedeal.co.uk
03 May 2006, 08:06 PM
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A 2-3 year old Focus RS can be had for £15k. At this price you'd get an absolute mint, 1 owner low miles car.And in 2 years time it will still fetch decent money.
...just a thought....
...just a thought....
04 May 2006, 09:05 AM
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Be interested to see how the Peugeot looks, but would ideally like to change cars within the next 2 weeks.
Im test driving a VXR this afternoon, and there are a few second hand ones about for £16900 odd, so they have taken a decent initial depreciation knock which would hopefully mean they wont lose too much more over the next year or two, level out a bit.
Ill do a comparison against the Focus ST, but really, in this sector currently, it seems to come down to these two, and the Golf, and ive seen a few Golfs about, and its not what im looking for. Maybe in a year or two, as feel my Audi currently covers pretty much all the Golfs bases, and I want something a little more extreme in both looks and driving experience.
I like the look of the Alfa Brera, but for the "proper" model, you need to spend about £28k, but certainly one to look at in a year or so when second hand ones are around.
Anyone used http://www.new-car-discount.com/ they recon they can get an ST3, new, UK model for £18k on the road. Waiting lists a pain, but for that sort of saving, could maybe wait.
Im test driving a VXR this afternoon, and there are a few second hand ones about for £16900 odd, so they have taken a decent initial depreciation knock which would hopefully mean they wont lose too much more over the next year or two, level out a bit.
Ill do a comparison against the Focus ST, but really, in this sector currently, it seems to come down to these two, and the Golf, and ive seen a few Golfs about, and its not what im looking for. Maybe in a year or two, as feel my Audi currently covers pretty much all the Golfs bases, and I want something a little more extreme in both looks and driving experience.
I like the look of the Alfa Brera, but for the "proper" model, you need to spend about £28k, but certainly one to look at in a year or so when second hand ones are around.
Anyone used http://www.new-car-discount.com/ they recon they can get an ST3, new, UK model for £18k on the road. Waiting lists a pain, but for that sort of saving, could maybe wait.
04 May 2006, 10:54 AM
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See here
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=512693
looks very interesting you could cut 6 months of the lead time
Tal
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=512693
looks very interesting you could cut 6 months of the lead time
Tal
04 May 2006, 04:07 PM
#46
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Interesting, to answer the original question, that is this months What Car they assess vehicles in their depreciation index, and the Mini Cooper now shares it's top spot with .... the Focus ST - wirth 54% of your initial investment.
05 May 2006, 08:00 AM
#47
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How can What Car state that with any accuracy?
The mini has been around for a few years now and is known by the trade. The ST is only a few months old and is still in high demand due to low supply and strong demand but this can change in an instant once either supply meets demand or the new Civic Type R comes out
Steve
The mini has been around for a few years now and is known by the trade. The ST is only a few months old and is still in high demand due to low supply and strong demand but this can change in an instant once either supply meets demand or the new Civic Type R comes out
Steve
05 May 2006, 09:52 AM
#48
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Thanks for the replies and advice. I test drove the VXR yesterday, and found it to be much more the car for me.
The Focus is really really nice, but its almost trying to be too grown up for its own good, so against the VXR, it feels like some of the fun and hooliganism has been removed.
VXR is superb, goes like stink, and I didnt find any of the issues I was expecting with the nose pushing wide, I think that issue was overplayed by journo's who possibly dont know how to balance a car properly.
Of course, any car with 236BHP going through the front wheels has the potential to understeer badly, but I found the instant throttle response allowed you to control it perfectly, just feathering the throttle, and getting the front end dancing between the beginnings of understeer, and grip, and as you exit the corner, you can use the full 236BHP whack to propel you nicely to the next corner.
Oversteer is there if you look for it, but if you drive it according to its grip levels (very high), then its easy to dial it out. There really is no need to use all 236BHP on the apex of a corner.
Now then, the bits I didnt like so much. Interior isnt as nice as the ST's, thou perfectly adequate, and I didnt even try work out the radio/computer bits, guess thats something you get used to and it becomes second nature, but very fiddly.
Very few dials, be cool to see how much boost you're running, oil temp, water temp, but its got nne of those. Suppose a boost gauge could be retro fitted.
The noise it makes, not an actual bad point, just very different to any car ive ever heard, there is actually no engine noise, just a strange whooshing sound. Sounded okay, but not as nice as the ST.
Power band is also a little strange, in that there are areas across the rev range where there is just buckets of power, but it seems to peak and trough very slightly across the range, so it can be a bit hit and miss as to just how much acceleration you're about to get, althou accross the range its a LOT of acceleration, just slightly diferent in certain areas.
Those points aside, the car won me over, and Ive decided to go for one. Wouldve bought the demonstrator, if they werent asking about a grand too much for it, but going to look at a couple red ones tomorrow, will see how the red looks against the blue.
Right, anyone want to buy my mint Audi A3 2.0TDI Sport S-Line DSG??? got to shift that first.
The Focus is really really nice, but its almost trying to be too grown up for its own good, so against the VXR, it feels like some of the fun and hooliganism has been removed.
VXR is superb, goes like stink, and I didnt find any of the issues I was expecting with the nose pushing wide, I think that issue was overplayed by journo's who possibly dont know how to balance a car properly.
Of course, any car with 236BHP going through the front wheels has the potential to understeer badly, but I found the instant throttle response allowed you to control it perfectly, just feathering the throttle, and getting the front end dancing between the beginnings of understeer, and grip, and as you exit the corner, you can use the full 236BHP whack to propel you nicely to the next corner.
Oversteer is there if you look for it, but if you drive it according to its grip levels (very high), then its easy to dial it out. There really is no need to use all 236BHP on the apex of a corner.
Now then, the bits I didnt like so much. Interior isnt as nice as the ST's, thou perfectly adequate, and I didnt even try work out the radio/computer bits, guess thats something you get used to and it becomes second nature, but very fiddly.
Very few dials, be cool to see how much boost you're running, oil temp, water temp, but its got nne of those. Suppose a boost gauge could be retro fitted.
The noise it makes, not an actual bad point, just very different to any car ive ever heard, there is actually no engine noise, just a strange whooshing sound. Sounded okay, but not as nice as the ST.
Power band is also a little strange, in that there are areas across the rev range where there is just buckets of power, but it seems to peak and trough very slightly across the range, so it can be a bit hit and miss as to just how much acceleration you're about to get, althou accross the range its a LOT of acceleration, just slightly diferent in certain areas.
Those points aside, the car won me over, and Ive decided to go for one. Wouldve bought the demonstrator, if they werent asking about a grand too much for it, but going to look at a couple red ones tomorrow, will see how the red looks against the blue.
Right, anyone want to buy my mint Audi A3 2.0TDI Sport S-Line DSG??? got to shift that first.
05 May 2006, 11:37 AM
#49
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I'd either go for the Civic Type R or DC5
I do like the look of the VXR, & it's suppoed to be quite good. I just couldn't spend all that £ on a Vaux!!
Same goes for the Focus really. Also personally, i think Golfs are over rated.
Why not try something a little different like a 330D or 330Ci?
Craig
I do like the look of the VXR, & it's suppoed to be quite good. I just couldn't spend all that £ on a Vaux!!
Same goes for the Focus really. Also personally, i think Golfs are over rated.
Why not try something a little different like a 330D or 330Ci?
Craig
05 May 2006, 12:51 PM
#50
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Whats the difference between spending that on a Honda as opposed to a Vauxhall thou?
Ive owned a VTI-S, Integra Type-R, and an S2000, and im all Honda'd out, I find the VTEC thing has outlived itself, and with the competition available, Honda need to do something drastic to make their performance cars stand out.
Until Honda learn to make engines that are flexible in their power delivery, dont think ill be bying another, I did once buy into the whole "drivers car" concept, and kidded myself that the engines were great because they revved lots, but in the real world, they are outgunned by their competitors.
Ive owned a VTI-S, Integra Type-R, and an S2000, and im all Honda'd out, I find the VTEC thing has outlived itself, and with the competition available, Honda need to do something drastic to make their performance cars stand out.
Until Honda learn to make engines that are flexible in their power delivery, dont think ill be bying another, I did once buy into the whole "drivers car" concept, and kidded myself that the engines were great because they revved lots, but in the real world, they are outgunned by their competitors.
05 May 2006, 01:19 PM
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May be of interest to you SSBob regarding your comments about the exhaust note.
http://astra-sri.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=7129
Thorney motorsport are approved to supply and fit Miltek exhausts and remap VXR's for your driving pleasure so to speak without affecting the VX warranty (equivelant of prodrive I suppose).
I think the VX website has further details of the VXR re-mapp which takes BHP upto 280 and torwue to around 300!!!!!!!! The power mapp only kicks in when you press the sport button so that you have the choice of when you are shredding your tyres to bit's.
Personally I am very envious and hope you manage to find a VXR at the right price.
Regards
Paul
http://astra-sri.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=7129
Thorney motorsport are approved to supply and fit Miltek exhausts and remap VXR's for your driving pleasure so to speak without affecting the VX warranty (equivelant of prodrive I suppose).
I think the VX website has further details of the VXR re-mapp which takes BHP upto 280 and torwue to around 300!!!!!!!! The power mapp only kicks in when you press the sport button so that you have the choice of when you are shredding your tyres to bit's.
Personally I am very envious and hope you manage to find a VXR at the right price.
Regards
Paul
05 May 2006, 01:20 PM
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Good choice Sideshowbob, 
You will figure the radio out in a day or two. Don't worry about the depreciation either, those in the know have just increased its predicted value by 6% so its the same as the golf. Glad to see someone has driven it and made their mind up, not just read poo. You will see how capable it is the more you drive it. The only advice i would give is that the Blue is a slightly more popular colour than red, but the red shows up stone chips more, silver is very rare and gives stealth value. Have a look on astra-sri.co.uk Plus if you are into modding people are running over 300 bhp easily already.
You will figure the radio out in a day or two. Don't worry about the depreciation either, those in the know have just increased its predicted value by 6% so its the same as the golf. Glad to see someone has driven it and made their mind up, not just read poo. You will see how capable it is the more you drive it. The only advice i would give is that the Blue is a slightly more popular colour than red, but the red shows up stone chips more, silver is very rare and gives stealth value. Have a look on astra-sri.co.uk Plus if you are into modding people are running over 300 bhp easily already.
05 May 2006, 01:28 PM
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Cheers VXRBOY and Paul, remap/exhaust sounds good, especially controlable via the sports switch.
Ill wait for a while before doing anything to it, its superb fun as is, need one on my driveway.
Id prefer blue, but all the used blues Ive seen are ex demonstrators, and seem to be priced at over £18k!! whereas a red with same spec/mileage seems to be available for just over £17k.
Saying that, going to look at two tomorow, one red one blue, at the same dealer, but the red ones price mysteriously went up about a grand when I called, so will go and cut through the bullsh1t tomorrow, and see what price I can get either for.
Black would be top of my list, then blue, then red, but given the lack of second hand ones available, my approach is to get the best possible one for about £17500, regardless of colour, thou if blue would offset the extra expenditure now by holding its value better, I could be tempted to get one.
Ill wait for a while before doing anything to it, its superb fun as is, need one on my driveway.
Id prefer blue, but all the used blues Ive seen are ex demonstrators, and seem to be priced at over £18k!! whereas a red with same spec/mileage seems to be available for just over £17k.
Saying that, going to look at two tomorow, one red one blue, at the same dealer, but the red ones price mysteriously went up about a grand when I called, so will go and cut through the bullsh1t tomorrow, and see what price I can get either for.
Black would be top of my list, then blue, then red, but given the lack of second hand ones available, my approach is to get the best possible one for about £17500, regardless of colour, thou if blue would offset the extra expenditure now by holding its value better, I could be tempted to get one.
05 May 2006, 01:28 PM
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http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...f=104&t=258772
More info here on the VXR performance programme if your interested.
Paul
More info here on the VXR performance programme if your interested.
Paul
05 May 2006, 01:32 PM
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Link to one for sale, low miles and already has Miltek.
Might still be up for grabs and negotiation??
http://astra-sri.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=8352
Good luck finding one
PAul
Might still be up for grabs and negotiation??
http://astra-sri.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=8352
Good luck finding one
PAul
05 May 2006, 03:41 PM
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Best place to look is astra-sri.co.uk. if you need to know anything at all.Loads of different options and help about the car, parts, tuning etc,etc. Even from Thorney, and Cortney sport, and Stu Harris the VXR development guy.
06 May 2006, 10:37 AM
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Have to agree with some points there Sideshow. Driven the VXR, and it is no where as bad as certain journos have said in regards to the handeling. it can get a bit 'interesting' at times. But tbh that is up to the driver. Have to say it was a bit in your face for me in red.
However one of the guys on our forum has just taken delivery of this:
With his Teg
Have to say I love it and yes...it is a diesel!!!. He said it has 300 flbs of torque, and is not far of the teg for performance. 888 special edition.
A would say in defence of Honda, I know what you men it is cool to have a change. but as for them doing something different, well they do. If all the hatches out there had 2ltr turbo'd lumps. It would be pretty boring. It is cool to have a choice.
However one of the guys on our forum has just taken delivery of this:
With his Teg
Have to say I love it and yes...it is a diesel!!!. He said it has 300 flbs of torque, and is not far of the teg for performance. 888 special edition.
A would say in defence of Honda, I know what you men it is cool to have a change. but as for them doing something different, well they do. If all the hatches out there had 2ltr turbo'd lumps. It would be pretty boring. It is cool to have a choice.
Last edited by super6four; 06 May 2006 at 10:39 AM.
07 May 2006, 11:21 PM
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I was in the same boat recently.
The Golf was very capable, in fact I came close to buying one.
The VXR was better to drive than I expected after the reviews but on a wet test drive it was a bit lairy at times. Nevertheless I liked it and found it loads of fun. Ultimately though I need 5 doors.
The ST won me over. Refined, superb handling if not quite as sweet as the GTI. But the engine is so full of character, the car reminds me of my 1st scoob in many respects, and 99% of the time it hides the fact it's not 4wd well with no major problems.
My car now has the 256bhp bluefin remap and feels extremely rapid, and the car handles the extra power easily.
All in all happy days for hot hatch buyers and a close call - they are all good, I think if I had ended up with any of them I'd have been happy
The Golf was very capable, in fact I came close to buying one.
The VXR was better to drive than I expected after the reviews but on a wet test drive it was a bit lairy at times. Nevertheless I liked it and found it loads of fun. Ultimately though I need 5 doors.
The ST won me over. Refined, superb handling if not quite as sweet as the GTI. But the engine is so full of character, the car reminds me of my 1st scoob in many respects, and 99% of the time it hides the fact it's not 4wd well with no major problems.
My car now has the 256bhp bluefin remap and feels extremely rapid, and the car handles the extra power easily.
All in all happy days for hot hatch buyers and a close call - they are all good, I think if I had ended up with any of them I'd have been happy
08 May 2006, 10:33 AM
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Signed on the dotted line on Saturday, got a red, with 7 delivery miles on it, 19" wheels, and full leather, for just under £17k.
Bit of a bargain really, for the amount of performance, and it was a lucky find. The dealership had received two demonstrators, this one had gone into the showroom, while the other used by a salesman, and all demo drives.
Its essentially new, not been kept outside or anything, so chuffed really, im guessing brand new cost with the spec would be about £18500, so although black was top of the colour list, its too much of a bargain to pass up, and its quite a nice red as reds go.
Is there any need to run it in? I believe most engines these days are built to very specific tolerances, removing the need to run them in, but recon ill take it easy till its got about 100 miles on it, then start giving it a bit of a boot.
Thanks for all the info and replies, pick it up over the weekend, so will get to know it a bit better than I was able to on a test drive.
Bit of a bargain really, for the amount of performance, and it was a lucky find. The dealership had received two demonstrators, this one had gone into the showroom, while the other used by a salesman, and all demo drives.
Its essentially new, not been kept outside or anything, so chuffed really, im guessing brand new cost with the spec would be about £18500, so although black was top of the colour list, its too much of a bargain to pass up, and its quite a nice red as reds go.
Is there any need to run it in? I believe most engines these days are built to very specific tolerances, removing the need to run them in, but recon ill take it easy till its got about 100 miles on it, then start giving it a bit of a boot.
Thanks for all the info and replies, pick it up over the weekend, so will get to know it a bit better than I was able to on a test drive.