54Roadster

true facts?

54Roadster

Nooo, get a proton gti, or an oil burning audi, I hear they are the business!

Neilo

do you want a challenge then?

~DrEaM~

thats what i was thinking....

anthscooby01

Is he still going on about that Audi. Bring the ****heap to nearest disused Airport runway and I will wee all over it. They are quick but STI PPP is quicker by far. 225 bhp in a heavier car, are u kidding me!! Close the door after u mate.

Lee_1075

iTrader: (1)

Hmm read my post again and then reply!, you will see i said my Brother in law owns a chipped Audi A4 2.5 tdi, guess what, i own a Subaru WRX classic and he has no chance, no matter where we drive. The only thing he beats me in are MPG, look where i live yes the home of Audi, they are on every corner here. The Audi is built for German motorways, they cruse all day everyday at high speeds combined with low costs, its a totally different car to the Impreza. Dont get me wrong they are quick, as i stated in my first post, but they will never make a Turbo Impreza look stupid. Over here your typical Audi TDI driver is a company salesman that thinks hes god on the AB, they come steaming up behind you with flashing lights and indicators waiting for you to move into the slow lane. Wow amazing your faster than me. pullover get behind him and do the same, at around 210K/mh the Audis going nowhere fast. I tend to yawn at them really.

Ben v7

On topic... yes your modified WRX will be faster in a straight line than a WRX STi PPP. Simple power to weight and the close ratio box on the STi won't compensate enough for that.

Yours... 310/1.385 = 224bhp per ton
STI PPP 305/1.480 = 206bhp per ton

The power delivery between the two car's won't be much different either, as you've got a VF34 - so your not losing out on the fun factor with power delivery either. I wouldn't tune it any higher though, it is at the limit now both in terms of engine and gearbox, but you can always go for a new block and strengthened 5-speed kit.

Yawn at another remapped TDi owner... you keep telling yourself you've got a Scooby killer and a car that offers a great driving experience... most of us couldn't care less about your delusions of grandeur.

sgcooby

Was tempted not to respond as i know its not on topic but i just cant help myself. Having recently sold my A4 2.5tdi quattro chipped to 220bhp and over 300lb/ft i can honestly say that you havent got a fooking clue what your on about. Even chipped these cars are not fast and the handling is mearly average with that heavy engine dragging you wide at every oportunity. Standard 0-60 for the A4 2.5tdi quattro was 8.6 for the manual and 9.1 for the auto. An extra 40bhp for a chipped one is not going to drop that to much below the high sevens but where it really is shown up by even a humble standard wrx is up to 100. Even when my wrx was standard it was in a different league in terms of performance to my A4 so a heavily modded wrx or sti ppp would destroy it. If you are going to come on these forums to stir the **** please make sure you at least have a decent basis for your arguments as all you have avhieved is to show yourself up as the plonker you clearly are

Bangkok Matt

Not sure I agree about the 'box. I have a WRX (not an STi) with about 470-480bhp but I have an STi 6-Speed box and it copes rather nicely (so far, anyway). My original 5-speed 'box disintegrated about 18 months ago when I was only running about 300bhp. I wasn't even particularly hammering it either - no full bore launches or anything, just "spirited" day to day driving. I wouldn't trust one to hold out - they are notoriously weak.

hades

I've found that the 280 odd well sorted exhaust/ecutek WRXs are about a match for an STi PPP in a straight line drag - my WRX has 284/272 and on a couple of occassions against people I know (so know how they were driving), there was nothing to chose. The 310 version will be quicker, but not vastly so in most circumstances.

Re: the standard WRX 'box - it's a bit down to luck, and a bit down to how you drive. There are people who've had them break at only around 300/300, but I also know of people who've run them at well over 350/350 for many thousands of miles and never had a problem. I'd say on average around 330 lbft with hard driving is where problems start. Certainly not as strong as the STi box, admittedly.

To be fair to the Audi diesels, I've had one or two keep up with me until about 80mph or just over in autobahn type situations. Probably would have been a little different had I bothered to change out of top gear, admittedly . . . .

powerman1

I used to think my fiesta 950 pop plus would beat everthing on the road when I had one,then it was my escort then my mondeo then my focus and now I know what a plonker i was now i ve got a scooby(3rd one)...I wonder if I would have felt the same about an Audi when I was uneducated?
powerman

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

Good, now **** off and don't bother coming back..!!!

stisye

but what looks better than the scooby broadside out the island? keep ya oil burner piece of ****!!!

Awd Chaddy

You forgot to mention it also costs about 10k more to buy! As for being "no quicker off the the roundabout" - maybe.....possibly? But I know which would be quicker through the roundabout!

645

Steady on there cowboy! Not quite as simple as that. You must take account of gear ratios as well...and if you do, the difference is not quite what you'd expect. The engine torque in each gear for both cars, divided by the weight is:

STI PPP 04 Model
1st 2874
2nd 1878
3rd 1392
4th 1064
5th 768
6th 598

Modded WRX (% of STI PPP Torque)
1st 2822 (98%)
2nd 1590 (85%)
3rd 1116 (80%)
4th 794 (75%)
5th 604 (79%)

So, the gearing on the STI allows it to extract more of its available power...but as will all these car comparisons, it'll come down to lots of other factors, such as fuel, tyres, clutch control, torque curve, power loss (assumed to be similar in calcs above), etc, etc. I'd rather have the STI, as it's running well within its safety range.

GazTheHat

Neither have Subaru lately. Come on Petter, sort it out chief!

hades

Those percentages also completely ignore the fact that the WRX's gears are higher so will allow for more speed in gear - 5th on the WRX is about the same ratio as 6th on the STi, 604 is 102% of 598. Then you think about where the WRX was measured, and what power/torque the STi PPP would produce at the same rollers - whilst your figures are interesting, they also don't prove any more than the other figures bandied about this thread.

Ben v7

For anyone interested...

WRX

Gear 1 2 3 4 5 Final
Ratios: 3.450 1.950 1.370 0.970 0.740 3.900

Gear - Mph per 1000 RPM - Mph @6000 RPM
----------------------------------------
1 - 5.44 - 33
2 - 9.63 - 58
3 - 13.71 - 82
4 - 19.36 - 116
5 - 25.38 - 152


STi

Gear 1 2 3 4 5 6 Final
Ratios: 3.640 2.380 1.760 1.350 0.970 0.760 3.900

Gear - Mph per 1000 RPM - Mph @6000 RPM
----------------------------------------
1 - 5.23 - 31
2 - 8.00 - 48
3 - 10.82 - 65
4 - 14.11 - 85
5 - 19.64 - 118
6 - 25.06 - 150

645

Hi Hades - your point about the rollers - we can only go on the facts provided, so I'm taking stock STIPPP figures - some will be lower, some higher, but I take your point.

The comment you make about gearing is correct of course...however, you've missed my point (my fault for not stating it explicitely). The STI can keep a lot closer to it's peak torque figures through a range of speeds.

I agree with you that at a particular speed, say 70mph, there might not be anthing in it, as STI would be in 4th, WRX in 3nd - all depends on the torque curve at the particular revs....

My point is that in the STI it's easier to get the revs as near to where you need them at any particular speed, whereas the WRX driver, although in a similarly powerful car, may get caught somewhere further away from peak torque or power.

gazbrook

Please arrange to meet the scoobynet community with one of these cars for a dragstrip race. I would like to put a wager on it that it would lose badly!

A car that runs out of puff by 4000-5000 revs is crap. End of!

Ben v7

Agree with the above - is easier to keep the STi right on the boil in the first four gears... but then you do have to make an extra gear change. Over 30-80 for example the WRX needs only 2 gear changes whereas the STi requires 3.

hades

All true - but then again, the different turbo etc will give different shaped power/torque curves on the two engines, and if the spread is wide enough, the impact of closer ratios may be negated or at least minimised.

To take my WRX as an example. Whilst reading 284 peak power (given day, given rollers etc), it had 280+bhp all the way from just under 5800 to just over 6800. Changing up (apart from 1st-2nd), I can always keep the car over 260bhp. Also in a WRX, boost is less laggy and arrives earlier than on an STi (260lbft from about 2700rpm in mine, whilst peak was "only" 272). I can't comment on STi PPP torque/power curves, but guess they'd be pretty capable of making the best of the 6 speed ratios too.

I'm pretty sure we're not disagreeing on any key principle - just pointing out various ways that there's a hell of a lot more to it than peak power/torque alone! I'll stick with the evidence that my car seems to be pretty much identical in a straight line drag to an STi PPP. A 310bhp WRX ought to be a bit quicker than mine with 284bhp (i.e. probably noticably quicker, but not massively so). Similarly, I know mine is - whilst fairly close - not as quick as a 340bhp ECUTEK'd STi.

Either way, I think the sorts of differences we're talking are easily made up by the driver, and the STi is undoubtedly (in stock form) faster in the corners, better on the brakes and capable of being tuned to higher power outputs without changing half the transmission or engine internals!

bugsti

Complete rubbish.

Have driven a standard A4 2.5tdi and, while it is a very good car, it would not even be close to keeping up with my STI PPP in a straight line.
And on twisty stuff..........

alwong

I raced a BMW 535D from a roundabout onto the M42 and he had the inside line. I was driving a wrx PPP and he was a little faster than me. (A car length by the time we reached 100mph). So I very much doubt an A4 2.5TDI will beat an STI PPP which has an extra 40bhp!!

alwong

I'm sorry but your talking rubbish. A type R supercharged will product 265BHP through the front wheels. An astra VXR struggles to keep the power down with 240bhp and this has been tested on numerous tracks which shows it's slower than other cars with less power. (Golf GTI, Leon Cupra R etc). The Type R setup is geared for the 200bhp region not the extra 65bhp you'll be getting.

flynnstudio

Let's forget busy roundabouts in urban centres - instead...

Take a hypothetical 15 mile point to point run at night over empty B roads with a good mix of slow, fast and tight bends, hills, dips, long and short straights and assuming that NEITHER driver knows the route or has ever driven it before the winner would be as follows :

The drivers :

Driver A : Professional Race Driver ( ie does this for a living!)

Driver B : 'self-taught' so called 'fast road amateur' with '*****' ( ie recklessness) - no race/track experience

Driver C : Usual Arrogant a-hole salesman who thinks choosing Audi somehow validates his secret long held belief that he's of 'genetic arian superiority'

The results :

Driver A would win in all cases driving either the WRX 310bhp, the STI PPP (310) or the Audi (225 bhp).

Driver B in a WRX or STI would give Driver A in the Audi a 'very close run' and could possibly even win if there were to many long straights.

Driver C would be in a ditch at the third bend trying to keep up with driver A or B regardless of what car he was driving (but he would still think he was superior and immediately start brandishing his rolex watch to anyone who cares to see it...)

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

waits for suffolkdar to come on saying how audi won the le mans 24hr with a diesel

Daniel-S

SamUK

iTrader: (1)

No you woud'nt...you would mod it more and more till it goes faster...


PS: Have to disagree with this AUDI 2.5tdi thing...you see i also own the AUdi 2.5tdi on a 51 Plate...and i know for a fact its not quicker then my STI....for anyone who thinks the Audi will leave there STI...get your car checked out...or sell the scoob and buy the Audi...mine will be for sale soon..

shooter007

me and my mate both had civic type-r great cars when rolling will give scooby a go but 197 bhp through front wheels weeeel no , bridgestones have aprox 1 to 2 thousand miles of soft compound then its very hard eg: grip is crap wheel spin hoo yes and are notorious for spinning in wet when pushed to hard wish subaru gear box was bought from honda though superb 6speed close ratio please own one before comenting as figures dont tell the hole story