310Bhp WRX vs STI PPP ??
#61
Originally Posted by suffolkdar
You cannot argue with mindless idiots........ they just drag you down to their level!
I have stated what are true facts, i have nothing else to say
true facts?
#62
Originally Posted by Daniel-S
Ah well glad to see that an otherwise normal thread turns into another scooby bashing
Its saturday night mate get a life
Its saturday night mate get a life
#65
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Is he still going on about that Audi. Bring the ****heap to nearest disused Airport runway and I will wee all over it. They are quick but STI PPP is quicker by far. 225 bhp in a heavier car, are u kidding me!! Close the door after u mate.
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Originally Posted by suffolkdar
Right you *********!
It seems quite clear that none of you have ever come across a chipped 2.5 vw/audi TDI with over 220 bhp and enougth torque to pull tree stumps!, coupled with very good handling and huge tyres they will make you look stupid!
Or may be the diesel is better than optimax around here............
It seems quite clear that none of you have ever come across a chipped 2.5 vw/audi TDI with over 220 bhp and enougth torque to pull tree stumps!, coupled with very good handling and huge tyres they will make you look stupid!
Or may be the diesel is better than optimax around here............
Last edited by Lee_1075; 07 May 2006 at 12:03 AM.
#67
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On topic... yes your modified WRX will be faster in a straight line than a WRX STi PPP. Simple power to weight and the close ratio box on the STi won't compensate enough for that.
Yours... 310/1.385 = 224bhp per ton
STI PPP 305/1.480 = 206bhp per ton
The power delivery between the two car's won't be much different either, as you've got a VF34 - so your not losing out on the fun factor with power delivery either. I wouldn't tune it any higher though, it is at the limit now both in terms of engine and gearbox, but you can always go for a new block and strengthened 5-speed kit.
Yawn at another remapped TDi owner... you keep telling yourself you've got a Scooby killer and a car that offers a great driving experience... most of us couldn't care less about your delusions of grandeur.
Yours... 310/1.385 = 224bhp per ton
STI PPP 305/1.480 = 206bhp per ton
The power delivery between the two car's won't be much different either, as you've got a VF34 - so your not losing out on the fun factor with power delivery either. I wouldn't tune it any higher though, it is at the limit now both in terms of engine and gearbox, but you can always go for a new block and strengthened 5-speed kit.
Yawn at another remapped TDi owner... you keep telling yourself you've got a Scooby killer and a car that offers a great driving experience... most of us couldn't care less about your delusions of grandeur.
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Originally Posted by suffolkdar
You cannot argue with mindless idiots........ they just drag you down to their level!
I have stated what are true facts, i have nothing else to say
#69
Originally Posted by Neilo
well im about to try 370/370 (450/450)<--bit silly, but in general yeah, should be just make sure you slot the gears home before you boot it
#70
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I've found that the 280 odd well sorted exhaust/ecutek WRXs are about a match for an STi PPP in a straight line drag - my WRX has 284/272 and on a couple of occassions against people I know (so know how they were driving), there was nothing to chose. The 310 version will be quicker, but not vastly so in most circumstances.
Re: the standard WRX 'box - it's a bit down to luck, and a bit down to how you drive. There are people who've had them break at only around 300/300, but I also know of people who've run them at well over 350/350 for many thousands of miles and never had a problem. I'd say on average around 330 lbft with hard driving is where problems start. Certainly not as strong as the STi box, admittedly.
To be fair to the Audi diesels, I've had one or two keep up with me until about 80mph or just over in autobahn type situations. Probably would have been a little different had I bothered to change out of top gear, admittedly . . . .
Re: the standard WRX 'box - it's a bit down to luck, and a bit down to how you drive. There are people who've had them break at only around 300/300, but I also know of people who've run them at well over 350/350 for many thousands of miles and never had a problem. I'd say on average around 330 lbft with hard driving is where problems start. Certainly not as strong as the STi box, admittedly.
To be fair to the Audi diesels, I've had one or two keep up with me until about 80mph or just over in autobahn type situations. Probably would have been a little different had I bothered to change out of top gear, admittedly . . . .
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Originally Posted by suffolkdar
Exactly my point!, they can hassel you in standard form on any trunk road..... chipped they can make you look stupid.
The twisties are another matter, but then some spotty kid in a 106/306/proton GTI will go round them like they are in a GO KART and make you look stupid there!
Then of course there are the civic type Rs that will when tuned make you look stupid on any trunk road but will still leave you on any twisty bits like a GO KART!
DISCUSS
The twisties are another matter, but then some spotty kid in a 106/306/proton GTI will go round them like they are in a GO KART and make you look stupid there!
Then of course there are the civic type Rs that will when tuned make you look stupid on any trunk road but will still leave you on any twisty bits like a GO KART!
DISCUSS
powerman
#72
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Originally Posted by suffolkdar
You cannot argue with mindless idiots........ they just drag you down to their level!
I have stated what are true facts, i have nothing else to say
#73
Originally Posted by suffolkdar
So, Having a saloon car or coupe with big wide wheels, a body kit and a huge spoiler that has a reputation as being "very fast" that is no quicker off a roundabout than an estate car burning dirty oil with pram wheels, 3 dogs in the boot, 4 kids and some posh tart wearing a scarf is good or cool? i think not. it makes the impreza look like a piece of ****! And there are lots of people reading this that know it's true, but will never say!
#74
Originally Posted by suffolkdar
So, Having a saloon car or coupe with big wide wheels, a body kit and a huge spoiler that has a reputation as being "very fast" that is no quicker off a roundabout than an estate car burning dirty oil with pram wheels, 3 dogs in the boot, 4 kids and some posh tart wearing a scarf is good or cool? i think not. it makes the impreza look like a piece of ****! And there are lots of people reading this that know it's true, but will never say!
#75
Originally Posted by Ben v7
On topic... yes your modified WRX will be faster in a straight line than a WRX STi PPP. Simple power to weight and the close ratio box on the STi won't compensate enough for that.
Yours... 310/1.385 = 224bhp per ton
STI PPP 305/1.480 = 206bhp per ton
Yours... 310/1.385 = 224bhp per ton
STI PPP 305/1.480 = 206bhp per ton
STI PPP 04 Model
1st 2874
2nd 1878
3rd 1392
4th 1064
5th 768
6th 598
Modded WRX (% of STI PPP Torque)
1st 2822 (98%)
2nd 1590 (85%)
3rd 1116 (80%)
4th 794 (75%)
5th 604 (79%)
So, the gearing on the STI allows it to extract more of its available power...but as will all these car comparisons, it'll come down to lots of other factors, such as fuel, tyres, clutch control, torque curve, power loss (assumed to be similar in calcs above), etc, etc. I'd rather have the STI, as it's running well within its safety range.
Last edited by 645; 08 May 2006 at 12:42 PM.
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Originally Posted by anthscooby01
Repect that they are a great diesel car but I have not seen any winning rallies lately....
#77
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Originally Posted by 645
Steady on there cowboy! Not quite as simple as that. You must take account of gear ratios as well...and if you do, the difference is not quite what you'd expect. The engine torque in each gear for both cars, divided by the weight is:
STI PPP 04 Model
1st 2874
2nd 1878
3rd 1392
4th 1064
5th 768
6th 598
Modded WRX (% of STI PPP Torque)
1st 2822 (98%)
2nd 1590 (85%)
3rd 1116 (80%)
4th 794 (75%)
5th 604 (79%)
So, the gearing on the STI allows it to extract more of its available power...but as will all these car comparisons, it'll come down to lots of other factors, such as fuel, tyres, clutch control, torque curve, power loss (assumed to be similar in calcs above), etc, etc. I'd rather have the STI, as it's running well within its safety range.
STI PPP 04 Model
1st 2874
2nd 1878
3rd 1392
4th 1064
5th 768
6th 598
Modded WRX (% of STI PPP Torque)
1st 2822 (98%)
2nd 1590 (85%)
3rd 1116 (80%)
4th 794 (75%)
5th 604 (79%)
So, the gearing on the STI allows it to extract more of its available power...but as will all these car comparisons, it'll come down to lots of other factors, such as fuel, tyres, clutch control, torque curve, power loss (assumed to be similar in calcs above), etc, etc. I'd rather have the STI, as it's running well within its safety range.
#78
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For anyone interested...
WRX
Gear 1 2 3 4 5 Final
Ratios: 3.450 1.950 1.370 0.970 0.740 3.900
Gear - Mph per 1000 RPM - Mph @6000 RPM
----------------------------------------
1 - 5.44 - 33
2 - 9.63 - 58
3 - 13.71 - 82
4 - 19.36 - 116
5 - 25.38 - 152
STi
Gear 1 2 3 4 5 6 Final
Ratios: 3.640 2.380 1.760 1.350 0.970 0.760 3.900
Gear - Mph per 1000 RPM - Mph @6000 RPM
----------------------------------------
1 - 5.23 - 31
2 - 8.00 - 48
3 - 10.82 - 65
4 - 14.11 - 85
5 - 19.64 - 118
6 - 25.06 - 150
WRX
Gear 1 2 3 4 5 Final
Ratios: 3.450 1.950 1.370 0.970 0.740 3.900
Gear - Mph per 1000 RPM - Mph @6000 RPM
----------------------------------------
1 - 5.44 - 33
2 - 9.63 - 58
3 - 13.71 - 82
4 - 19.36 - 116
5 - 25.38 - 152
STi
Gear 1 2 3 4 5 6 Final
Ratios: 3.640 2.380 1.760 1.350 0.970 0.760 3.900
Gear - Mph per 1000 RPM - Mph @6000 RPM
----------------------------------------
1 - 5.23 - 31
2 - 8.00 - 48
3 - 10.82 - 65
4 - 14.11 - 85
5 - 19.64 - 118
6 - 25.06 - 150
#79
Originally Posted by hades
Those percentages also completely ignore the fact that the WRX's gears are higher so will allow for more speed in gear - 5th on the WRX is about the same ratio as 6th on the STi, 604 is 102% of 598. Then you think about where the WRX was measured, and what power/torque the STi PPP would produce at the same rollers - whilst your figures are interesting, they also don't prove any more than the other figures bandied about this thread.
The comment you make about gearing is correct of course...however, you've missed my point (my fault for not stating it explicitely). The STI can keep a lot closer to it's peak torque figures through a range of speeds.
I agree with you that at a particular speed, say 70mph, there might not be anthing in it, as STI would be in 4th, WRX in 3nd - all depends on the torque curve at the particular revs....
My point is that in the STI it's easier to get the revs as near to where you need them at any particular speed, whereas the WRX driver, although in a similarly powerful car, may get caught somewhere further away from peak torque or power.
#80
Originally Posted by suffolkdar
Right you *********!
It seems quite clear that none of you have ever come across a chipped 2.5 vw/audi TDI with over 220 bhp and enougth torque to pull tree stumps!, coupled with very good handling and huge tyres they will make you look stupid!
Or may be the diesel is better than optimax around here............
It seems quite clear that none of you have ever come across a chipped 2.5 vw/audi TDI with over 220 bhp and enougth torque to pull tree stumps!, coupled with very good handling and huge tyres they will make you look stupid!
Or may be the diesel is better than optimax around here............
A car that runs out of puff by 4000-5000 revs is crap. End of!
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Agree with the above - is easier to keep the STi right on the boil in the first four gears... but then you do have to make an extra gear change. Over 30-80 for example the WRX needs only 2 gear changes whereas the STi requires 3.
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Originally Posted by 645
The comment you make about gearing is correct of course...however, you've missed my point (my fault for not stating it explicitely). The STI can keep a lot closer to it's peak torque figures through a range of speeds.
I agree with you that at a particular speed, say 70mph, there might not be anthing in it, as STI would be in 4th, WRX in 3nd - all depends on the torque curve at the particular revs....
My point is that in the STI it's easier to get the revs as near to where you need them at any particular speed, whereas the WRX driver, although in a similarly powerful car, may get caught somewhere further away from peak torque or power.
I agree with you that at a particular speed, say 70mph, there might not be anthing in it, as STI would be in 4th, WRX in 3nd - all depends on the torque curve at the particular revs....
My point is that in the STI it's easier to get the revs as near to where you need them at any particular speed, whereas the WRX driver, although in a similarly powerful car, may get caught somewhere further away from peak torque or power.
To take my WRX as an example. Whilst reading 284 peak power (given day, given rollers etc), it had 280+bhp all the way from just under 5800 to just over 6800. Changing up (apart from 1st-2nd), I can always keep the car over 260bhp. Also in a WRX, boost is less laggy and arrives earlier than on an STi (260lbft from about 2700rpm in mine, whilst peak was "only" 272). I can't comment on STi PPP torque/power curves, but guess they'd be pretty capable of making the best of the 6 speed ratios too.
I'm pretty sure we're not disagreeing on any key principle - just pointing out various ways that there's a hell of a lot more to it than peak power/torque alone! I'll stick with the evidence that my car seems to be pretty much identical in a straight line drag to an STi PPP. A 310bhp WRX ought to be a bit quicker than mine with 284bhp (i.e. probably noticably quicker, but not massively so). Similarly, I know mine is - whilst fairly close - not as quick as a 340bhp ECUTEK'd STi.
Either way, I think the sorts of differences we're talking are easily made up by the driver, and the STi is undoubtedly (in stock form) faster in the corners, better on the brakes and capable of being tuned to higher power outputs without changing half the transmission or engine internals!
#83
Originally Posted by suffolkdar
You have never had the pleasure of an audi A4 2.5TDI keeping up with your sti ppp off roundabouts upto 120mph? Dont forget these cars when chipped a very very fast.........
Have driven a standard A4 2.5tdi and, while it is a very good car, it would not even be close to keeping up with my STI PPP in a straight line.
And on twisty stuff..........
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Originally Posted by geesta
If ever a diesel kept up with my wrx classic I'd sell it.
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Originally Posted by suffolkdar
Exactly my point!, they can hassel you in standard form on any trunk road..... chipped they can make you look stupid.
The twisties are another matter, but then some spotty kid in a 106/306/proton GTI will go round them like they are in a GO KART and make you look stupid there!
Then of course there are the civic type Rs that will when tuned make you look stupid on any trunk road but will still leave you on any twisty bits like a GO KART!
DISCUSS
The twisties are another matter, but then some spotty kid in a 106/306/proton GTI will go round them like they are in a GO KART and make you look stupid there!
Then of course there are the civic type Rs that will when tuned make you look stupid on any trunk road but will still leave you on any twisty bits like a GO KART!
DISCUSS
#86
Let's forget busy roundabouts in urban centres - instead...
Take a hypothetical 15 mile point to point run at night over empty B roads with a good mix of slow, fast and tight bends, hills, dips, long and short straights and assuming that NEITHER driver knows the route or has ever driven it before the winner would be as follows :
The drivers :
Driver A : Professional Race Driver ( ie does this for a living!)
Driver B : 'self-taught' so called 'fast road amateur' with '*****' ( ie recklessness) - no race/track experience
Driver C : Usual Arrogant a-hole salesman who thinks choosing Audi somehow validates his secret long held belief that he's of 'genetic arian superiority'
The results :
Driver A would win in all cases driving either the WRX 310bhp, the STI PPP (310) or the Audi (225 bhp).
Driver B in a WRX or STI would give Driver A in the Audi a 'very close run' and could possibly even win if there were to many long straights.
Driver C would be in a ditch at the third bend trying to keep up with driver A or B regardless of what car he was driving (but he would still think he was superior and immediately start brandishing his rolex watch to anyone who cares to see it...)
Take a hypothetical 15 mile point to point run at night over empty B roads with a good mix of slow, fast and tight bends, hills, dips, long and short straights and assuming that NEITHER driver knows the route or has ever driven it before the winner would be as follows :
The drivers :
Driver A : Professional Race Driver ( ie does this for a living!)
Driver B : 'self-taught' so called 'fast road amateur' with '*****' ( ie recklessness) - no race/track experience
Driver C : Usual Arrogant a-hole salesman who thinks choosing Audi somehow validates his secret long held belief that he's of 'genetic arian superiority'
The results :
Driver A would win in all cases driving either the WRX 310bhp, the STI PPP (310) or the Audi (225 bhp).
Driver B in a WRX or STI would give Driver A in the Audi a 'very close run' and could possibly even win if there were to many long straights.
Driver C would be in a ditch at the third bend trying to keep up with driver A or B regardless of what car he was driving (but he would still think he was superior and immediately start brandishing his rolex watch to anyone who cares to see it...)
Last edited by flynnstudio; 19 June 2006 at 09:59 AM.
#89
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Originally Posted by geesta
If ever a diesel kept up with my wrx classic I'd sell it.
PS: Have to disagree with this AUDI 2.5tdi thing...you see i also own the AUdi 2.5tdi on a 51 Plate...and i know for a fact its not quicker then my STI....for anyone who thinks the Audi will leave there STI...get your car checked out...or sell the scoob and buy the Audi...mine will be for sale soon..
Last edited by SamUK; 19 June 2006 at 02:45 PM.
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me and my mate both had civic type-r great cars when rolling will give scooby a go but 197 bhp through front wheels weeeel no , bridgestones have aprox 1 to 2 thousand miles of soft compound then its very hard eg: grip is crap wheel spin hoo yes and are notorious for spinning in wet when pushed to hard wish subaru gear box was bought from honda though superb 6speed close ratio please own one before comenting as figures dont tell the hole story