AudiLover

If god exists hes a ******. Lucky for me he doesnt so theres no-one to smite me.

All of societys problems today is the fault of parents plain and simple. Good parents equal good kids.

Reality

Bad parents = Bad Kids. but agree with your view otherwise .

scoobynutta555

I agree that some on here see the good old days (whenever they were) through rose tinted glasses. I'm not condoning an 11 year old getting pregnant but this certainly cannot be a recent phenomonen throughout the history of the human race. If she wasn't physically ready for pregnancy then she wouldnt be pregnant.

As posted earlier, to what time should we be looking at for moral guidance?

Reality

It's funny how most people seem to have forgotten that we are basically apes. an 11 year old ape would probably be past her best

Ben v7

Yes but I would hope most people would view themselves as very different from apes... can't really believe that people are putting forward this view that no big deal we've got 11 year olds f***ing. What seperates us from apes and other animals is our ability to override our animalist urges with rational intelligent thought - and hopefully most people can work out why things like that are just plain wrong.

Reality

Exactly - As the gap between the Intelligent and, for the want of a better word, the Chavs widens then we will see more and more of our "natural" behaviour being displayed. You have to tell your kids it's not good to **** when you're 11 - just like you have to tell your 63 year old wife it's not a great Idea to get artificially preggers.

I'm not so sure who is worse - that the older woman or the 11 year old kiddie in their respective "cases".

scoobynutta555

Seems to me you are passing a moral view on a natural reproductive act. If she wasn't physically able to become pregnant then she wouldn't become pregnant.

OllyK

Probably just as well, or do you consider rape an acceptable thing within a society as long as the woman is sexually mature enough to become pregnant?

JTaylor

Would you lower the age of consent then to an arbitrary 'when able to conceive' ?

scoobynutta555

As you would have seen if you observed my postings correctly, I do not condone 11 year olds getting pregnant. At the same time it is a moral view and not a scientific/physical view as to the age of consent.

I shall state it again for the benefit of those who take specific quotes and ignore the rest of what is said:

'to what time should we be looking at for moral guidance?'

As for you Ollyk, I think you are confusing yourself.

scoobynutta555

It's not in my power nor inclination to change anything regards the age of consent. I am merely stating a truth. So all 3 of you can climb off your moral horses and stop reading what I haven't posted.

JTaylor

Our society, after two thousand years of evolution, has decided that 16 is the minimum age for consensual sex. Some 15 year olds may be ready and some 17 year olds may not, but 11? C'mon! I can only assume you're playing devils advocate to pass the time.

gotmashed

why do people think kids having babies is only in this day and age ??? its been around far longer than you would belive but they used to send them away to have there babies and given away then made to live with nuns and worked this was still going on in the 80s in island

scoobynutta555

And what's wrong with presenting another view? I am passing the time, but aren't the majority of people doing the same on pretty silly threads like this also?

Taking your view that our society after 'two thousand years of evolution' has deemed 16 to be the age of consent. How come the age of consent in this country was 12 up until 1860? I'm still trying to work out, how at the time, in a society with strong feelings and beliefs in God did such practices exist.

To simply start a thread blaming all that's bad on a 'Godless society' is being quite niave.

JTaylor

The British were still trading slaves at the beginning of the 19th century and women weren't considered worthy of a vote until the turn of the last. Godless or otherwise, your suggestion that sex with an 11 year old child is acceptable warrants a challenge.

Reality

The child's Mum seems not to have no problem with it. Or her smoking & drinking. Who are you to tell a parent how to raise her ****

davegtt

And theyre still not worthy of a vote IMO None of them know anything about politics anyway

Reality

None of them know when men want sex - ALWAYS

scoobynutta555

All i said was the fact that an 11 year old is having sex is a moral arguement if she is physically able to get pregnant. I never said it was acceptable or not acceptable, nor even a suggestion of it.

My view is taken into context about the thread. I don't quite know what your agenda is but if you're trying to say something then say it.

Succinctly, an 11 year olds sexual exploits are in no way to do with a 'Godless society'.

OllyK

Actually the doctors are rather worried as having a child when the female hasn't fully developed is inherantly dangerous to both mother and baby.

Why do we have to look to a specific time for guidance, why can't we with the benefit of hind sight develop a better moral code now than we have had in the past?

Not at all. Being physically capable of something does not mean it should be done, certainly morally, but also for basic survival reasonas as well.

scoobynutta555

The whole reason the thread started was someone going on about how the ills of our society today stem from us being a 'Godless society' now, inferring there was some sort of golden age where everything was ok when we were a God fearing society. Holding up an example of this is an 11 year old getting pregnant, also inferring this did not happen before. Hence my question about when was there a time we should look to for specific guidance.

Don't quite understand your moral (sic) 'hind sight' view. Are you telling me there is a better moral code in society now than there was before?

I take note of your concern by doctors. But nature and natural selection have been around longer than any doctor I know of. If indeed she is the scum that she's being portrayed as then she will not be long of this Earth due to her unnatural activities

OllyK

I was putting forward a different view, why look back, why not learn by the past and adapt society's moral code accordingly?

Just because a woman is capable of being pregnant doesn't mean she should be, yes that's a moral judgement, but if you're going to boil it down to purely physiological criteria, then rape becomes acceptable.

Reality

Not sure if rape becomes acceptable - but the 15 year old boy in this case wouldn't be facing a statutory rape charge.

And you could argue that he shouldn't anyway.

The girls Mum obviously thinks it's OK, the girl's happy enough with her new status as a soon to be new mum - Why the **** should a 15 year old child be persecuted by the state ?

Now there's a good "moral judgement" question .

lozgti

Just to be clear.The gentleman who wrote the letter to the newspaper did actually experience the 1940's.

He was simply saying we have a totally different scenario in this country now and in his view it was better then than 'Godless' times we experience now.

Can't imagine there is one person on this forum who is old enough to disagree with him.For an elderly person comparing our modern society to a time when there was a war on and choosing the war years as the better option...its got to be bad!

scoobynutta555

Why not indeed. In fact in 100 years from now the age of consent may be 21 along with smoking and drinking if they're still allowed. That's the trouble with moral codes, they are very subjective. Spain's age of consent is 13 while Romania's is 10. Doubtless there are countries where it is lower than this. Likewise, there are places with ages of consent higher than 16 and may think a society with an age this low (16) is morally wrong just the same as I assume you'd look down on Spain and Romania.

That's twice you've raised rape without explaining why. Who said rape becomes acceptable? And if a female wishes to become pregnant what's that got to do with you, are you giving birth to it?

Once you bang on about morality, what's moral, what's not, you've already lost whatever arguement was there. It's too subjective an area.

scoobynutta555

Yes but I'm not going to blindly agree and accept what one persons experiences were 60 years ago. Some things may well of been better, but a hell of a lot of things are much better now than then.

OllyK

Morals are what is socially acceptable, what is acceptable in one society may not be in another.

The primary driver of animals is to breed, if you remove any moral inhibitors then breeding with any female you choose isn't an issue any more assuming you can over power her. It is the morals of society that have decided that women should have the right to choose rather than be subject to the "law of the jungle"

scoobynutta555

Think you'd better leave it there before you look an even bigger idiot

Ben v7

Religious teaching goes a step further than laws, which are supposed to reflect societies morals, in that it gives general instruction on how to live your life. I think one issue is that because people disregard religion they no longer have that message. Their behaviour might not be wrong in the eyes of the law, but it still might not be what most people who consider desirable, but because they are no longer accountable from a religious perspective it is easily dismissed. Of course many people don’t necessarily need the guidance that a religion would offer to behave appropriately, but perhaps some would be better off with it today.

Fuzz

Not in the slightest.
Why do you see it as wrong then ??

Andy