Stainy

Except when the intelligence is along the line of, "they are going to do something nasty tomorrow morning" In which case they have to act fast and cant do any of the above and all your perfect world crap goes out of the window.

They have to act fast under these circumstances and I for one wouldnt want to be the bloke first up the stairs on the arrest team. Must've been ****ting him/themselves in case of explosives/guns whatever. This is when any non-compliance from the other party will result in them being stopped immediately. I agree that assuming the bloke is innocent, he wouldn't have been happy at the police coming in and therefore probably kicked off a bit at the intrusion but what's the answer? Give him a ring first to let him know why they were coming in?

I'll put you down as a volunteer to go in first on the next scare and you can brief the teams, get it right and everyone will be happy

Top and bottom of it is that they HAD to act for whatever reason, which will come out in the inquiry by the IPCC and as for 'what did they do wrong' ffs no-one knows if they did right or wrong. They just haven't been charged which is about as far from 'definately innocent' as you are from reality

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Think about all the intel and surveillance it is possible to do these days - the Police would know your ever movement, word and fart if they had you under surveillance. I seriously question the surveillance if they manage to get it so wrong (again).

These people wouldn't have been released within a week if there was any chance of them having any involvement - Police have the power to detain for longer if they wish.

Also with the sweeping draconian power of 'Anti-Terror' Laws people can be imprisoned for upto 7 years just for 'glorifying' terrorism.

How long did it take before the police even admitted opening fire? Media was reporting that there may have been a scuffle and one brother shot the other, which has turned out to be false.

Step back for a moment and think how you would feel if you were the victim of this wrong 'intelligence'. Would you have the same views then?

turboman786

Deary me.....some very poor attitudes on here.......

Lets face it, the use of the word 'intelligence' uttered by a cop should be treated with the utmost caution, as any of you who have dealt with the police will know that the one thing they lack is intelligence...if they were intelligent they wouldnt be police officers!!

Stainy

Oh yeah, the police will have been behind all this and not just acting on information provided by MI5

BOB.T

BOB'5, just remind me, how many terrorist plots have you foiled?

Stephb1986

They do what they have to do at the end of the day, are you telling me if you was told that some ****er had a chemical bomb and was going to let it go off that you wouldnt shoot them???? I'd rather they kill 1 person that waiting and letting them kill 100's maybe 1000's, we shouldnt be saying whether it was right or wrong for them to shoot him, he did what he thought was right he had our best interests at heart. Its life it goes on we live and we die why should any of us be killed by some terrorist coz they was "told" to what a pile of bull****!

rant over

rr_ww

I have to say Im with Bugatti on this.

What I would also like to kno is what happened regarding the shooting. Did matey do something daft like reach for something, or wave a knife at someone.

Jamescsti

The officers on the scene get a split second to make decisions, based on the information given to them, the media etc get all the time in the world to pull that decision apart, and put forward what ever is the favorable view to sell papers.
Perhaps you would prefer it if they waited for someone to put another bomb in central london, or manchester, or maybe leeds, before taking action?

The right action was taken in my view.

daiscooby

I spent 11 years in Army Intelligence, 90% of the time in Northern Ireland.

It is an impossible task to quickly gather any meaningful intelligence on para millitary or terrorist groups where they are embedded and protected within a section of the local community. Even if it is 'passive' protection, i.e. where the community does not support the activity but will not divulge info to not be seent to be ' breaking ranks'.
It was only after 25 years of painstaking work in Northern Ireland that we made headway and achieved consisitant and repeatable success.
Mistakes were made on a regular basis.
Forget technology, this is not James Bond. It is boring, dull, unglamourous work by foot sloggers. With at least 3 hours spent cross referencing and checking of data for every field hour. And yes we had databases and hi-tech kit, but it all boiled down to years of boring, grim groundwork.
By the end of the 80's we were fecking good at what we did, and by 93 PIRA wanted to call it quits. The Intelligence effort started in ernest in 1970. Do the cronology.
The best in the world are the Isreali's, and they cant shut it down, even with a blatent shot to kill on mear suspicion policy and 50 years of experience.
The Islamic Terror Groups of all factions are internationally funded, trained and supported. There logistical and communication networks are very, very sophisticated and well managed.
I dont believe it is a secret that successes have already been achieved against the Terror Groups in the UK. But they are never broadcasted so as not to readily disclose the activities that lead to the successes.
The shooting at Stockwell and the two wrong arrests last week may well have been due to faulty intelligence. But there is one fundimental difference between the war in Northern Ireland and the war on Islamic Terror. When we fought the Republican movement there objective was to carry out the attack and live to carry on the cause. In almost all cases where a bomb was used on civilian targets, a warning was given to the attack. And in most cases where one wasn't it was because the device went off prematurely. It is a quantum leap from what we were used to in N.I. to this campaign. The suicide bomber is a different enemy, and infinately much harder to counter.
Hence the game is quicker, hence the responses are quicker, hence the errors. I am happier with the situation as is, than a situation where we are fighting terror with fettered hand and foot by political correctness. They dont fight with such considerations, neitehr should we.
Sorry to be heavy, but I feel strongly about this subject.