MooseRacer

You can't "train" a dog by hitting it. You can install fear into it, make it unpredictable and unhappy for sure.

Dogs need to learn respect, and that is more effectively taught in other more subtle ways. You hit a dog, you're a **** in my book.

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

Apparition

Red Dog104 :
Thank you for the most CONSTRUCTIVE piece of advice in this thread. I have forwarded on the Bark Busters details to my lovely Non- chav daughter who , by the way is bringing up her children in an excellent manner.....

Sorry I digress.

Thank you once again. You have been most helpful.
Yve

OllyK

Unfortunately a lot of dog bites arise through fear or confusion on the part of the dog, so I'd have to disagree with you on that one.

OllyK

It may not be a puppy, but get "A perfect puppy" by Gwen Bailey, it's a damn good read. Also get in tough with local dog clubs, many of them will offer one to one training for not a huge amount of cash.

danwrx1980

I adopted my dog about 15 months ago from the Dog's Trust near shrewsbury. He'd been in there 2 years and they could tell me nothing about him before that. Had various dogs since I was 6, and never been afraid of one or been bit by one apart from a Boxer guard dog on a barracks when his handler let him go by accident.

Olly has been really hard work, was always trying to escape, turning the bin over and dragging the half empty bag all round the house etc, but after a years hard work is now the sweetest most well behaved dog in the world.
For those of you that don't agree, yes he has had the odd tap on the nose and had been manhandled into the kitchen and his bed on the odd occasion, but he is now well and truly part of the family and no longer runs off.
He sits on the front lawn and watches me cut the grass and no longer wears a lead when we go out, and he is very protective of the house which I think is a good thing, especially as I work away a lot and leave my mrs alone with him. He is a great companion and there is no way I would ever be without him, and the peace of mind he gives us both is priceless, especially with all the stories you hear on here of houses being broken into and people stabbed for car keys. They would have to be mad as a hatter or just stupid to try and get to us through our dog.

The point here is that (almost) any dog can be cured of bad habits, it just takes a lot of training and a wilful owner. And a lot of love for that particular dog.

Yve the thing you need to decide is that is the dog that is the problem worth that kind of commitment, I'm fortunate in that I have my own business so have been able to devote a lot of time to Olly, if not then a rescue centre is probably the best answer.

And TBH Sociopath, I'm not the slightest bit interested in your non constructive comments, so please keeps crap like that to yourself.

Dan.

Bubba po

Jesus... I agree with this.


But we ALL have to lie in the bed that they make.

shaunywrx

To fukcing right, they SHOULD blame themselves, if they have'nt got the time or patience to train there dog and children properly, who else can you blame?

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

Afraid I have to agree with many opinions on here, I can sympathise that your daughter has loved and spoilt the dog. but at the end of the day that has not done the poor thing any favours as it now considers himself ahead of the pecking order of the kids.

Used to see this all the time at the rescue centre,people not understanding why their dogs have turned on their new kid/dog etc as they have always pampered the dog silly. there is where the problem lies

Reality

What's your source for this "Fact" ?

Some sort of liberal do gooders "how to have the perfect dog" website ?

ScoobLou

iTrader: (21)

Have to agree here, I am shocked the dog was put down because of their incompetence. They should be banned from keeping animals for life as they obviously too stupid to train and care for them properly.

Sorry things like this really do grate on me, the owners should have been put down and not the dog.

OllyK

The source is a kennel club registered dog trainer.

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

Just my opinion, and dog lovers will dissagree maybe.

If there is the slightest chance of a child being injured then get rid of the animal in any way poss, she made a mistake with the bringing up of a dog - big deal - making a mistake with the safety of a child will stay with both her and her child for life.

Diablo

Jasey, stick to cats mate

Many animals will use attack as a defence mechanism due to fear. Put a dog in a situation of which it is uncomfortable and it will do one of three things. Freeze, take flight or fight.

I have to say that whilst I agree that as a rule of thumb you should never have to get physical with your dogs and certainly establishing a pattern where fear of a certain action due to repetition is highly undesirable and likely to result in a bite, in the wild a dog in the pack which is behaving in an innapropriate manner towards other pack members will not be "corrected" by the dominant animals using non physical means

There will be occasions, with some breeds more than others, where the odd smack (not to cause pain - but to focus attention by the act) is needed and where physical dominance (again, not involving any pain or distress) is a usefull addition to the non physical acts which ensure the dog knows its place.

sociopath

I wasn't talking to you, you dog rescue hero. If you are not interested, then you shouldn't have responded. More people have agreed with my 'cr4p' than disagreed so I guess the joke is on you!

Reality

Show a mad dog fear and the **** will bite you - any dog looking like it's gonna bite me gets a kick first then the psychological analysis of why it made it's mistake .

Ps Cats are much safer than dogs - when was the last cat mauling (domestic)

OllyK

Err - growls, bared teeth etc? There are usually a lot of body language warnings before a dog attacks or "corrects" in the wild. Watch a mum growl at her pups if they start pissing her off!

Of course if you meet agression with agression as in the wild, there's a good chance that the dog may vie for pack leader and will do so with agression as that's what it's been taught. If you want a wolf in the lounge, bite or beat it when it does wrong, if not, train it properly, it really isn't that hard.

Apparition

And still they go on villifying me and my daughter.

Didn't I just say in an earlier post that we were going to use barkbusters and get this problem solved?

Unfortunately, we are humans. We make mistakes. My daughter isn't a born dog trainer. Had I lived a little closer than 200 miles, I'd have stepped in and helped there having trained several dogs during my 54 years on this earth.

At least I have the (theoretical) ***** to stand here and admit it .
And at least in between the rudeness and utter insults, there have been some helpful and positive posts here. Thank you for those positive ones, and reverse victory to the others.
Yve
This thread is now closed.

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

Im just in the process of using bark busters, must admit though im only being charged £75 for 3 hours so thats good.
I feel for the dog that got put down at 4 years of age, termination should always be the last resort.

Apparition, all credit to you for going the bark busters route, its obvious from what you have posted that you and your family do genuinily care for the dog and are looking at the best solutions possible. I do love dogs (had to put my old dog down about 6 months ago due to illness) worst thing ive ever had to do, however if I had to chose between kids and dogs it would have to be kids but like oyu would look for alternative solutions first.

Leslie

Sorry to hear about the problem Yve, I suppose that to a certain extent he is following his instincts as a terrier. We used to have a Westie bitch and she was ok generally but qould let you know if she was less than satisfied about a situation! They are lovely little dogs and it would be a crying shame if he was put down.

Sociopath,

You are entitled to your oinions of course but your original post was a prime example of a Chav type of response and showed particularly bad manners.

Les

Diablo

Olly,

As you probably know I've got two Rottweilers. A breed known for its propensity to dominate and continually try and be pack leader, moreso than most other and more common breeds. Both of which are fantastic with people and have passed advanced obedience training.

The bitch is nervous of strangers, although thanks to our efforts much, much less so than she was when we got her aged two, and the boy who we have had from a pup and is now three just loves everybody from young to old.

Both are full of attitude and character and yet will respond to basic distance commands from the kids in the street, some of whom are as yong as 5 and 6. Not surprisingly none of the parents have any issues with their kids interacting with my dogs under our supervision of course. The same cannot be said for some of the other, generally smaller, dogs in the area.

I have never advocated beating dogs, nor have I suggested that the approprite behaviour by the owners is anything but the only way to go. Sometimes, however, a more physical approach is needed with adolescent dogs from time to time, one which parallels the way a mother would chastise her pups, particularly so with certain breeds.

Like any adolescent, many young dogs will see how far they can push it. Where those actions are in relation to a young male trying to exert his authority sometimes, and I would stress only sometimes, an immediate and sharp reaction is required to effectively demostrate that the behaviour is not acceptable.

Certainly when the boy goes too far with the bitch, she puts him in his place with what can only be described in human terms as a "bit of a kicking" Its highly effective, and he suffers no ill effects either physical or mental

She most certainly doesn't turn her back on him and ignore him for five minutes, nor does she place him in a room on his own to think about the consequences of his actions

Hence when he has stepped out of line when he was growng up he would get the occasional "physical" reaction to ensure he was in no doubt.

I can only speak fom experience, but my two have turned out to be happy, well balanced, well trained and safe. He's had a few taps on the nose, and been physically restrained on occasion, yet never once flinches and has no nervous reaction to what we humans may consider a physical threat.

I'm all in favour of all the recognised training techniques advocated in all the books you recommend. Sometimes you also have to address certain behaviour in the same way a parent or more dominant dog would.

I don't know what your entire dog owning history is, but its clear you are not experienced with the more dominant and instinct driven breeds.

danwrx1980

Dog rescue hero? On one hand you're having a go at so called 'chavs' who you don't know and obviously have no real idea about, and now you're giving me crap for helping a dog. You can't cut the cake both ways you bigoted little ****, decide what your opinion is and stick to it, stop posting on here with crap and trying to offend people.

Do you have a dog, or did you decide it was too much and bin it?
If so what are your kids like?

Great I bet coz you can do no wrong...

Flatcapdriver

Unfortunately, it's this level of ignorance and sweeping statements that lead to problems with dogs. Ridgebacks in particular are known for having fantastic temperaments particularly with children although you need to be careful with small children given the size difference. Quite where you've got your information from is curious though.

At the end of the day, you never hear about the millions of dogs that quite happily co-exist within a family unit without any problems but you do get to hear about the ones that haven't been trained properly. Its as much about training children to be responisible around dogs as it is ensuring the dogs know their place within the family. I've had children throw stones or shoot my dogs with water pistols in the past, without any negative reactions from the dogs but as soon as I've gone off the deep end with the parents, all I've got is the 'kids will be kids' excuses. You can bet they'd go batty if my dogs had actually defended themeselves.

Ultimately, I favour licensing for owners and it should be mandatory for owners and dogs to attend training which would make it far more difficult for people who shouldn't really have dogs in the first place to own one. Shame the same cannot be applied to children though.

Brendan Hughes

yeah, but my popcorn stall is now open...

Flatcapdriver

You're too late to corner the market. Microwaveable pop corn is now available.

Sub97

So basically, you post a message on an open forum, and if anyone doesn't completely agree with you you throw a hissy fit?

Whilst not agreeing with wording of some people's reply, I thoroughly agree with their sentiment.

Your intital post made it sound like your daughter can't be bothered/isn't capable of owning a dog properly, so the first hint of a problem it has to be taken to a dog shelter.

People that do a crap job (sorry if this will make you stat ranting again!) of looking after animals and then just toss them away when they turn out poorly should be banned from owning any more animals in future - just like someone else suggested in an earlier thread.

It sounds like it's your daughter that is the problem, not the dog. And if you've brought her up in a similar manner to the way you've acted on this thread - "how dare you even suggest it could be something she's done wrong!!" - then there's no real suprise I suppose!

Apparition

Sub97 : Do I know you ? Do you know me ? NO.
I have taken on board advice given here. I don't see where anyone agreeing or disagreeing with what I put in my first post has anything to with my later comments.
I do not like my daughter being called a Chav.That is unecessary rudeness and has nothing at all to do with the basic question/ problem. I do not consider standing up for my family to be throwing a "hissy fit".
In fact, until I was told about bark busters, I was dispairing of finding a happy solution to this situation.
There are ways of giving advice without hurling insults at people one has never met.

At the risk of this being interpreted as a rant..... She actually hasn't tossed the dog on a motorway or abandoned it , she's being responsible in trying to remedy the situation in a proper manner.
Yve

MooseRacer

Diablo - I fear your comments surrounding physical dominance and physical reactions will no doubt be misinterpreted. There is a world of difference between hitting your dog and dominating it, even physical dominance does not need to involve striking your dog.

"Certainly when the boy goes too far with the bitch, she puts him in his place with what can only be described in human terms as a "bit of a kicking" Its highly effective, and he suffers no ill effects either physical or mental"

Fortunately mine, and no doubt yours, know their place in the human pack well enough that we don't have to resort to giving them a bit of a kicking. Trying to draw parallels in this way is a bit strange - we have more 'tools' in our 'armoury' that we can and should use.

Neutral Cruiser

Couldn't have said it better my friend.
Unbelievable. They buy a dog that only ******* buy because it makes them look hard and are surprised when it does what comes naturally, AND humans have spent years trying to breed into it. The poor thing ends up unwanted and will probably go to an even worse idiotic owner. This is one of thge manyt reasons i am 1.) Vegan and 2.) Don't believe in 'owning' animals.
*****!

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

I cannot believe how rude some people have been on this thread