Maz

iTrader: (34)

To be fair is this not the case between many many differing groups across the world? We are only aware of the carnage in the Middle East because it is being broadcast night and day. If there was no media exposure I doubt if the average Joe would be any the wiser, apart from maybe grumbling about how much it costs to fill his Scooby. Tribalism is rife the world over, the situation is being inflamed and fuelled by politicians with hidden agendas. In your earlier post Tel you had a subtext which I understood, however that subtext pertains to a biblical era and certainly wouldn't affect my friendship with a Jew. What legacy is being left behind in man's wake?

Maz

Adam M

moses,

you are missing the point.

12 million jews in the world.

roughly 18 million pre 1939 living as guests in other peoples countries, hated then because of what they believed in with a bad reputation throughout history for financial success, greed etc.

Then 6 million are systematically wiped out. 1 in 3 in the whole world. So suddenly they felt a need to be secure and have a country where the government would not sit by and let another countries policies come in and take them away to be murdered.

Jews didn't feel safe anywhere in the world and they campaigned to have a homeland which they got - perhaps unfairly/unjustly.

The fact was, as a jewish person there was a need to have a place of safety where they could avoid persecuation for obvious reasons. Thats what zionism is about. The need to feel safe.

From the very beginning it was attacked through various wars, and suffered casualties but all that did was battle harden them. They were fighting from day one for their survival and their place in the world to feel safe (ironic really).

Its not about religion, its about staying alive.

You can keep going on about misplaced palestinians, and muslim brothers, but if there is such love, then why is it that all the surrounding rich arab states with masses of land and most of the oil in the world don't take in the palestinians for a quick fix.

The arab world will be united in one big arab state? great, imagine how long before it is arab state versus the rest of the world.

It seems to me that the muslim ethos is one world under a common belief, there is no live and let live.

I am so sick about hearing of jewish plans to run the world and control everything, please put it into perspective.

There are at most 12 million jews in the WHOLE WORLD. We are talking about a tiny people, so small that they don't even register as one of the major religions of the world, but the conflict and persecution seems to have made them more public.

12 million jews, 1200 million muslims.

and israel is smaller than wales.

Please tell me, do the jewish people deserve to have a land (any land) where they can feel safe from people of the ilk of hitler?

KiwiGTI

?????

I'm talking about money, as in Africa has a worthless infrastructure in terms of hospitals, transport, schools, governments.

I don't think it's acceptable to argue moral values when millions are dying because of famine and lack of medicine.

KiwiGTI

But why , Am I the only one who sees this as a doomed and short term project?

A lot of Sheiks are getting richer I know that. But what does it have in real terms. It's certainly no Singapore with a highly skilled and motivated workforce.

TelBoy

Maz, you're the Westernised arm of it. And fair play to you for being so fair-minded. For sure there will always be races who refuse to get on, and this is one of those instances, especially when the state of Israel is brought into the discussion. The problem is, there are lots of influential Jewish Americans, and there's a lot of oil still under the sand. There will never be a meaningful, long-term, peaceful solution to this conflict, in my opinion, not while that's the situation.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

While man is alive on this earth there will never be ultimate peace and harmony. Sad and damning as it sounds this is what I believe. The best we can hope for is some sort co-existence where we can live our lives without fear of harm and violence. When I was young I always looked to the future with hope and optimism, nowadays it is filled with gloom and despair. I have no answers or solutions all I carrry in my heart is hope.


Maz

Brendan Hughes

Who sang that? Dolly Parton?

Hoppy

Moses, you've called me - and others - a Zionist several times in this thread. As I understand it, that is someone who believes in the right of Israel to exist, so okay, I'm a Zionist - but that's as far as it goes. Jews have been continuously resident in the region for over 3,000 years, and Britain ('your' country) helped to formally establish an Israeli state after WW2. So yes, I guess I feel some national obligation to support the right of Israel to exist. Most people in Britain share this view.

Then you also say "slay all the Zionists" and suicide bombs are okay by you. Presumably, this means you want me dead, most of the contributors to this thread dead, and indeed the majority of the British people.

I don't think you believe that literally for a second, but that is what you keep saying, over and over. I don't understand how you can correlate your views with being born in Britain, living in Scotland with your family, yet spouting this vitriolic nonsense all the time. There are not many countries where you could get away with what you are saying.

Richard.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Did she? I dunno I was too busy looking at her ****.

TelBoy

You're wasting your time, trust me.

sti-04!!

I also see this, as per my post its over supply & very little demand.

Its crazy

shustir

Israel is no better than any 'terrrorist' group, the death, destruction and devestation they have caused ! Entire families, husbands, wives, children, parents all murdered. What is their excuse, self defence. Well hope you feel a lot safer by creating so many more haters of Israel. You sow what you reap and Israel has nobody to blame but itself. Bush may want to extend his war on terror to Israel. Oh forgot Israel is Bush.

Am sick of hearing Israel is just defending itself, you defend yourself by attacking those directly attacking you. Not by killing hundreds probably thousands of innocent men , women and children who never did any wrong doing. They make me sick

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

'your entitled to your opinions if u wish coz u r white u will get away with it probably but if some ethnic lad has opinions about u, secularism, christianity and the white arrogance, im just giving u an example, u will condemn the person and tell him to **** out of the country even if he woz born here and did more for this country than any dole scrounging chav or neds or white people ever did, how come they arent entitled to put their views forward , how come freedom of speech is for those who spew hatred or bait others and inflame things rather than not the freedom of speech if someone holds up the truth'

Moses, how do you know I am white for a start ?, its been sunny so I am not as white as you may think. As for an Ethnic lad not having the right to express his views then I am sorry but that is crap, these days if you are of an Ethnic minority you have more opportunity to say your piece without fear of reprisal than any white British person, mainly because all the authorities are scared of inflaming racial tension or being classed as racist. And for the record I am not Christian or arrogant, yes I was born here but thats not my fault, it just happened, I am not proud of what is just a biological and geographical fact.



'so u r saying its ok to commit adultery, cheat on your partner the one u luv or betray someone and ask a woman to respect her dignity rather than dress up as a ***** and go into the friday and saturday nite cattlemarket to get chewed and passed around the beast called man'



I didn't not comment on adultrey, whether it is ok or not just that Islam takes the line that it is better to commit greivous bodily harm/murder to those who are accused, as for the beast called man, I dont think thats just white males, not if the headlines are to be believed. Saturday night cattle markets do seem to have their fair share of Asian people in them, maybe they are just having fun or perhaps it must be all Hindu men that girls complain about being pestered by, seems to be a big double standards thing going on somewhere.


Oh and give the homophobic stuff a rest, you cant further the cause of Islam and the struggle Muslims have around the world, bemoaning how you are treated by the tyranical white man and the evil Zionist when you so casually cast homophobic remarks round the place, I know Islam does not tolerate Homosexuality and neither did Hitler but there are still gays round the place, get used to it I dont think they will stop just because the Quran says its not on.

dpb

ultimately there is no reasoning with religious fanatics -ANY of them

KiwiGTI

They'll try and deny it but Islam is full of homosexual practices stemming from Mohommed (PBUH) himself.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Respo...homosexual.htm

They even have weird laws like - If you sodomise a bloke and then he has a daughter, you can't marry the daughter because she is the offspring of someone you have penetrated.

I wouldn't expect there to be statistically less gays in the Muslim world than in the West.

Hoppy

Hardly surprising if you're only allowed to **** your missus through a hole in a sheet! FFS

Edited to add: Sorry, a cheap shot and almost certainly a myth.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Anyway, the sheet thing is a Jewish wedding night thing IIRC, may be wrong but thats how I understand it.

Hoppy

This should be interesting:

"What Muslims Want"

C4, Monday 7th Aug, 8pm.

Channel 4 News presenter Jon Snow tackles one of the most difficult and controversial questions facing our country today: to what extent do Muslims in Britain pose a threat to this country and its values? There is a growing fear that the 1.6 million Muslims in Britain are rejecting the majority liberal, tolerant beliefs in this country for a radicalised version of Islam in which violence can be justified.

Establishing what Muslims in Britain really believe has never been more pressing, so Dispatches has conducted the most comprehensive and rigorous survey to date of Muslim opinion in Britain, with startling results. Shariah TV, the series that gives Muslims the opportunity to ask Islamic scholars questions about how their faith interacts with 21st-century Britain, returns to Channel 4 later tonight.

Richard.

WRXshaneWRX

iTrader: (1)

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG, I could go deep into this as ive been interested in the palestinian struggle and the new age ***** (israel's) but i cant be bothered, ive been there, seen it, got banned from israel (infact I shouldnt call it that, its just occupied palestine)...if i had my way id nuke um

Adam M

Nice attitude!

MooseRacer

Israel - RIGHT

Leslie

KiwiGT,

Glad to see that you have the bottle to reply to my post. Many don't!

I do agree with your feelings about the loss of life on both sides and the destruction of countries and their infrastructure.

I have no feelings against Jews or Arabs except those who are engaged in terrorist activities prepared to murder innocent people to further their own selfish aims and are prepared to use religious organisations to their own selfish ends. I have no personal connections with either race. This is why I said Moses speaks a lot of good sense despite his understandable anti Zionist feelings.

The main point I was making is that I consider that Israel cannot be blamed for defending their people against the rocket attacks from Hezbollah, 230 yesterday! getting on for 1/2 million Jews have had to evacuate their houses for safety's sake whereas the Lebanese are not allowed to by Hezbollah in an attempt at the sympathy vote for their organisation through the Lebanese civilian deaths. Even you must see that as distressing.

I said in an earlier post that we have to look at both sides instead of allowing personal dislikes to influence our judgement. I was accused of being soft amonst other heresies which is simply not true. I can fully understand Arab objections to Zionism but Hezbollah I feel is more to blame for this conflict because of its terrorist activities.

Do you think that we should return Northern Ireland to the Eire government?

How many Iraqi's were killed in Billy's illegal war, and what has that done to Iraq? So many being killed every day and on the brink of civil war.

Les

TelBoy

LOL, oh **** me

Hoppy

Shane, do you want to sit down and talk about this, and work towards a peaceful solution?

No, I thought not

Richard.

Hoppy

Leslie,

In what way does Moses speak good sense? He expresses his honest feelings, but they make absolutely no 'sense' to me and neither are they 'good'.

Les, in the post above you are defending the Israeli position. In Moses' book you are a Zionist and therefore a legitimate target for a suicide bomber. Moses has said this time and again.

Also, Moses has absolutely failed to explain his 'understandable' anti Zionist feelings. I have asked him to, and asked him what direct harm Israel or any Jew has done to him. No reply. The 'fault' of Isreal in Moses' eyes is to merely exist and it should be wiped from the face of the earth.

I think you will agree that actually, that position is neither 'understandable' to the average Brit, nor does it make 'good sense'.

BTW, I am looking forward to that C4 documentary next Monday evening, but this thread has not lifted my expectations of pleasant viewing.

Richard.

MooseRacer

Surely there is a case for extraditiion laws being enforeced rather more strictly?

Dieseldog

well if you think things are bad now, wait until Hezbollah get wind of this... http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/st...835960,00.html

Hoppy

Extradite to where? It is certain that many radical Muslims are British born and bred, eg the London bombers.

Richard.

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

The Iranian president has just said that the only way to resolve the conflict is to wipe Isreal of the map.

786evo8

i can see how that would help...... simple but effective.........