Israel, right or wrong?
04 August 2006, 10:09 PM
#481
No religion no cry
In summary then, after reading the utterings of posters on this thread the world would clearly be better off without religious nutters of all denominations. What is it that causes normally rational and possible intelligent people to totally abandon their critical thought processes and blindly follow a major or minor religious cult, just because their parents told them to do so? WTF. 
04 August 2006, 11:46 PM
#482
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Originally Posted by Adam M
Gary, sorry but that is total drivel. I don't know much about islam, but I know there is a lot about doing the right thing and being a good person.
as for judaism, having been immersed in it my whole life, I think I would struggle to find a commandment, teaching or story that is not concerned with teaching people to be upstanding and moral.
The bloody ten commandments, the basic fundamental rules of judaism and christianity.
don't kill
don't steal
don't lie
honour your parents
don't cheat on your wife etc etc.
There is interpretation that states that killing in self defence is ok, and yes I believe this interpretation has a lot to answer for but how can you say the above is not meant to teach people to be good.
as for judaism, having been immersed in it my whole life, I think I would struggle to find a commandment, teaching or story that is not concerned with teaching people to be upstanding and moral.
The bloody ten commandments, the basic fundamental rules of judaism and christianity.
don't kill
don't steal
don't lie
honour your parents
don't cheat on your wife etc etc.
There is interpretation that states that killing in self defence is ok, and yes I believe this interpretation has a lot to answer for but how can you say the above is not meant to teach people to be good.
Why don't you list some of the other commandments which you've carefully excluded, such as not working on the Sabbath? Or how about taking the Lords name in vain? Or what about worshipping other gods? Or creating idols?
While you're at it, why don't you list the punishment for such terrrrrible transgressions? Working on the Sabbath - DEATH. Adultery - DEATH. Worshipping other gods - DEATH again. Got the picture by now? It really is a pretty common theme....
I'd be very interested to know if you think these punishments are also upstanding and moral and teaching people to do the right thing? If you find yourself picking and choosing which bits of these works of fiction you actually agree with, then these "good" religions are simply not presenting a coherent ethical framework.
Originally Posted by Adam M
I studied a little more recently and for the first time learned that the essence of the whole religion is a guide or a framework designed to teach people to do the right thing throughout life.
Originally Posted by Adam M
I think you will find that truely religious people will not slag off anyone, other religions included, because it goes against the principles at the core of their personalities.
Originally Posted by Leslie
There is no doubt that this country was a much pleasanter place to live when it was still a largely Christian society
A Christian society is one in which blind ignorance, prejudice, intolerance and absurdity rules over all that is truly ethical.
Originally Posted by Suresh
What is it that causes normally rational and possible intelligent people to totally abandon their critical thought processes and blindly follow a major or minor religious cult, just because their parents told them to do so? WTF.
Gary.
Last edited by GCollier; 04 August 2006 at 11:52 PM.
05 August 2006, 01:23 AM
#483
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It is easy to find contradictions in all religious texts, and it is equally easy to pick and choose the bits that happen to suit your purpose. In the Bible for example, when attacked to you 'turn the other cheek' or seek 'an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth'? Take your pic 
And for sure, over the years many ghastly acts have been comitted in the name of God and for the Christian faith. It's certainly no 'better' than most other religions.
Richard.
And for sure, over the years many ghastly acts have been comitted in the name of God and for the Christian faith. It's certainly no 'better' than most other religions.
Richard.
Last edited by Hoppy; 05 August 2006 at 01:26 AM.
05 August 2006, 12:31 PM
#484
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i didnt want to get involved again, just this last post
its from the aryan nations, im not a supporter of theirs, their scum that r using muslim sentiments for their own dirty work, they hate all jews and coloured folk, but this letter woz a strong read
http://www.aryan-nations.org/
i saw this letter by joanna francis
------
As I watch the genocidal war crimes being committed against the Lebanese people, I’m struck by the images that come across my television screen. I see women and children badly burned by the illegal chemical weapons our tax dollars provide to the Israelis for the incineration of their enemies; bridges, homes and roadways bombed into oblivion; hundreds of thousands of internal refugees; and death and misery palpable from halfway around the world.
But I must confess that what strikes me the most profoundly is the sight of young Lebanese men marching proudly, as they trample an Israeli flag underfoot.
Hezbollah!
Many of them don’t even look old enough to shave, and yet, they are truly men. The rest of the world hems and haws at the carnage the Jews have wrought on the once modern and beautiful country of Lebanon. But the average (so-called Christian) American merely echoes the mantra of his Zionist masters as he has been trained to do all his life. Americans confidently state that the Khazar Jews have a right to “defend their country” and that Hezbollah are terrorists, militants, and now, insurgents. What they fail to mention is that those Khazar Jews have about as much right to Palestine or Lebanon as the Chinese have to France, i.e., none.
They are simply Jewish squatters on Arab land.
And the Arabs intend to evict them.
That is not terror.
That is justice.
And that is manly.
So, Mr. Brave Christian Weekend-Warrior, call Hezbollah terrorists if you will, but one thing you cannot call them is: cowardly. With few exceptions, they are the only people brave enough to stand up to the Jew and spit back in his face. They are willing to fight to the death for their homeland, their honor, their religion, and their women. Yes, I said “their women.” You see, unlike you, they will not let the Jewish pornographers and abortionists defile their culture and turn their women into ******. You have been brainwashed into believing that Muslim women hate their plight of being protected from sexual predators, getting married young, becoming mothers, being treated with respect and dignity, being taken care of in their old age by their children, and living like innocent, strong, beautiful women. To your surprise, they do not seem to miss the beer-guzzling, Playboy reading, commitment-phobic, narcissistic men-children who turn their women over to the Jewish enemy. Their men are truly manning the frontlines, as you strain your back to bow as low as possible before your Jew masters, in true lackey fashion. They own you, because you have sold yourselves (and us) out to them.
You, Mr. Macho, have become their bitch.
You are the unworthy sons of the great Christian men who built Western Civilization. They were not cowards, and they did not fight for the Jew, but for their own religion, for Europe, and for the safety and honor of their women. They kept the evil Khazar monsters locked up in cages where they belong; only to see their descendants unleash those beasts at the time of the Protestant Revolt. How our Christian ancestors must be turning over in their graves. Today, Christian men will only fight against other Christians (World Wars I and II) or against brave, honorable Muslims, at the behest of the Jew. Now, the Christians are the beasts in cages, only allowed out long enough to pimp for their Zionist masters, and buy the latest edition of “Girls Gone Wild.”
Those “girls gone wild” are your sisters and daughters, yet you contribute to their exploitation for your own dirty, secret pleasure. You have abdicated your role as men and defenders of the Faith. You have allowed yourselves to be emasculated by a bunch of ugly, Jewish feminists. You did not fight for our honor. It is truly stunning how quickly you ceded Western Civilization, deciding that if you can’t beat them, you’ll join them. And so you gleefully set about exploiting our vulnerability, using us like unpaid prostitutes, too weak and selfish to accept your responsibility as head of a family. As a Christian, I do not believe in polygamy, but I can’t help but admire the kind of man who can take care of four wives, and all their offspring; while American men put their one wife to work and then expect her to cook, clean, feed their insatiable egos, and then have to compete with their childish, Jew-inspired fantasies in bed at night.
So admit that you are powerless before the Khazar, step aside, and let “your women” do the fighting. I have only my pen with which to fight, but at least I’m not afraid to wield it, full blast, aimed right at my enemy. Criticize me if you will, but I will pull no punches, use euphemisms, or grovel before my enemies. I have lost too much to them. I will not be their bitch. Unlike you, with your sycophantic pen, when you dare even broach the subject at all, regarding who has usurped the great heritage our ancestors created. You make me ashamed to be an American woman. Muslim women need feel no such shame. Their men would die (and are dying) rather than hand their daughters and sisters over to the Jew to be defiled and degraded.
Their honor is safe in the hands of their Muslim mujahadeen.
That is manly.
Don’t tell me that Jesus Christ was a pacifist and that you are only turning the other cheek. Christ was not the effete, kumbaya, Birkenstock sandal-wearing, proto-hippie that the liberals would have us believe. He wanted us to love one another but He also believed in justice. Render unto Caesar, and all that. He confronted the Pharisees face to face with words that you could only fantasize about using, and wouldn’t dare utter, even though we live in the last country in the West where it’s legal to confront the Pharisees. Yet you cower before them, justifying their incineration of Lebanese babies, while you pay the Jew to murder the babies you create with us. You bow before the Israeli flag, a foreign flag, while the young men of Hezbollah march on top of it. Don’t hide behind Christianity. It is not for wimps and cowards. Let us not forget the image of Christ turning over the tables of the money changers and whipping them out of the temple!
That was manly.
So the next time you turn on the Zionist-controlled television news and see images of dead and wounded women and children in Lebanon, just remember: their men are fighting for them against a far superior military force (thanks to us). But they are not cowering in fear. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they were to steal victory after all of this is over (if it ever is). Because all they have to do is survive and they have won. The Israelis have to eliminate Hezbollah to win, and that is unlikely. You can’t beat a force that is fighting for their families and for their homeland – in their own homeland. The home team always has the advantage.
Truly, a moral victory is already assured for Hezbollah.
And regardless of the outcome, they win just for having withstood so much firepower, and still being able to launch their hapless little Katyusha rockets back over the fence. Yes, that is manly. Maybe you American Christian men could learn something from them about fighting for honor, family and homeland.
Maybe you could try to emulate Hezbollah?
They might teach you a lesson or two in manliness. And if you’re nice, they might even lend you some testosterone. end
Joanna Francis
its from the aryan nations, im not a supporter of theirs, their scum that r using muslim sentiments for their own dirty work, they hate all jews and coloured folk, but this letter woz a strong read
http://www.aryan-nations.org/
i saw this letter by joanna francis
------
As I watch the genocidal war crimes being committed against the Lebanese people, I’m struck by the images that come across my television screen. I see women and children badly burned by the illegal chemical weapons our tax dollars provide to the Israelis for the incineration of their enemies; bridges, homes and roadways bombed into oblivion; hundreds of thousands of internal refugees; and death and misery palpable from halfway around the world.
But I must confess that what strikes me the most profoundly is the sight of young Lebanese men marching proudly, as they trample an Israeli flag underfoot.
Hezbollah!
Many of them don’t even look old enough to shave, and yet, they are truly men. The rest of the world hems and haws at the carnage the Jews have wrought on the once modern and beautiful country of Lebanon. But the average (so-called Christian) American merely echoes the mantra of his Zionist masters as he has been trained to do all his life. Americans confidently state that the Khazar Jews have a right to “defend their country” and that Hezbollah are terrorists, militants, and now, insurgents. What they fail to mention is that those Khazar Jews have about as much right to Palestine or Lebanon as the Chinese have to France, i.e., none.
They are simply Jewish squatters on Arab land.
And the Arabs intend to evict them.
That is not terror.
That is justice.
And that is manly.
So, Mr. Brave Christian Weekend-Warrior, call Hezbollah terrorists if you will, but one thing you cannot call them is: cowardly. With few exceptions, they are the only people brave enough to stand up to the Jew and spit back in his face. They are willing to fight to the death for their homeland, their honor, their religion, and their women. Yes, I said “their women.” You see, unlike you, they will not let the Jewish pornographers and abortionists defile their culture and turn their women into ******. You have been brainwashed into believing that Muslim women hate their plight of being protected from sexual predators, getting married young, becoming mothers, being treated with respect and dignity, being taken care of in their old age by their children, and living like innocent, strong, beautiful women. To your surprise, they do not seem to miss the beer-guzzling, Playboy reading, commitment-phobic, narcissistic men-children who turn their women over to the Jewish enemy. Their men are truly manning the frontlines, as you strain your back to bow as low as possible before your Jew masters, in true lackey fashion. They own you, because you have sold yourselves (and us) out to them.
You, Mr. Macho, have become their bitch.
You are the unworthy sons of the great Christian men who built Western Civilization. They were not cowards, and they did not fight for the Jew, but for their own religion, for Europe, and for the safety and honor of their women. They kept the evil Khazar monsters locked up in cages where they belong; only to see their descendants unleash those beasts at the time of the Protestant Revolt. How our Christian ancestors must be turning over in their graves. Today, Christian men will only fight against other Christians (World Wars I and II) or against brave, honorable Muslims, at the behest of the Jew. Now, the Christians are the beasts in cages, only allowed out long enough to pimp for their Zionist masters, and buy the latest edition of “Girls Gone Wild.”
Those “girls gone wild” are your sisters and daughters, yet you contribute to their exploitation for your own dirty, secret pleasure. You have abdicated your role as men and defenders of the Faith. You have allowed yourselves to be emasculated by a bunch of ugly, Jewish feminists. You did not fight for our honor. It is truly stunning how quickly you ceded Western Civilization, deciding that if you can’t beat them, you’ll join them. And so you gleefully set about exploiting our vulnerability, using us like unpaid prostitutes, too weak and selfish to accept your responsibility as head of a family. As a Christian, I do not believe in polygamy, but I can’t help but admire the kind of man who can take care of four wives, and all their offspring; while American men put their one wife to work and then expect her to cook, clean, feed their insatiable egos, and then have to compete with their childish, Jew-inspired fantasies in bed at night.
So admit that you are powerless before the Khazar, step aside, and let “your women” do the fighting. I have only my pen with which to fight, but at least I’m not afraid to wield it, full blast, aimed right at my enemy. Criticize me if you will, but I will pull no punches, use euphemisms, or grovel before my enemies. I have lost too much to them. I will not be their bitch. Unlike you, with your sycophantic pen, when you dare even broach the subject at all, regarding who has usurped the great heritage our ancestors created. You make me ashamed to be an American woman. Muslim women need feel no such shame. Their men would die (and are dying) rather than hand their daughters and sisters over to the Jew to be defiled and degraded.
Their honor is safe in the hands of their Muslim mujahadeen.
That is manly.
Don’t tell me that Jesus Christ was a pacifist and that you are only turning the other cheek. Christ was not the effete, kumbaya, Birkenstock sandal-wearing, proto-hippie that the liberals would have us believe. He wanted us to love one another but He also believed in justice. Render unto Caesar, and all that. He confronted the Pharisees face to face with words that you could only fantasize about using, and wouldn’t dare utter, even though we live in the last country in the West where it’s legal to confront the Pharisees. Yet you cower before them, justifying their incineration of Lebanese babies, while you pay the Jew to murder the babies you create with us. You bow before the Israeli flag, a foreign flag, while the young men of Hezbollah march on top of it. Don’t hide behind Christianity. It is not for wimps and cowards. Let us not forget the image of Christ turning over the tables of the money changers and whipping them out of the temple!
That was manly.
So the next time you turn on the Zionist-controlled television news and see images of dead and wounded women and children in Lebanon, just remember: their men are fighting for them against a far superior military force (thanks to us). But they are not cowering in fear. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they were to steal victory after all of this is over (if it ever is). Because all they have to do is survive and they have won. The Israelis have to eliminate Hezbollah to win, and that is unlikely. You can’t beat a force that is fighting for their families and for their homeland – in their own homeland. The home team always has the advantage.
Truly, a moral victory is already assured for Hezbollah.
And regardless of the outcome, they win just for having withstood so much firepower, and still being able to launch their hapless little Katyusha rockets back over the fence. Yes, that is manly. Maybe you American Christian men could learn something from them about fighting for honor, family and homeland.
Maybe you could try to emulate Hezbollah?
They might teach you a lesson or two in manliness. And if you’re nice, they might even lend you some testosterone. end
Joanna Francis
06 August 2006, 06:50 PM
#485
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GCollier,
If you had any sense at all you would realise that I was referring to more recent times, those that many of us on this forum can actually remember.
Your attempt to denigrate what I said is totally wrong and shows how limited your thinking appears to be.
You seem to be some kind of a fundamentalist atheist. You are entitled to your beliefs of course, just as the rest of us are. One of the important things for a good society is that of tolerance. Why should you shout about the "delusion" that you say religion is when it teaches that people should lead a good life being tolerant and thinking about others rather than yourself. You appear to be heavily against anyone who is prepared to follow those teachings which indicates the narrow corridor in which you mind seems to work. You are entitled to be an atheist but not to slag off those who follow a religion and live a good life.
The bad thing that can happen with respect to a religion is that unscrupulous people can use it to their own selfish ends by influencing young people. We see this now of course. It is not an acceptable excuse for running religion down, it is not the fault of the religion.
We are living now in a greedy, acquisitive, and uncaring society compared to how people behaved not all that long ago. I don't think that is anything to be proud of.
Les
If you had any sense at all you would realise that I was referring to more recent times, those that many of us on this forum can actually remember.
Your attempt to denigrate what I said is totally wrong and shows how limited your thinking appears to be.
You seem to be some kind of a fundamentalist atheist. You are entitled to your beliefs of course, just as the rest of us are. One of the important things for a good society is that of tolerance. Why should you shout about the "delusion" that you say religion is when it teaches that people should lead a good life being tolerant and thinking about others rather than yourself. You appear to be heavily against anyone who is prepared to follow those teachings which indicates the narrow corridor in which you mind seems to work. You are entitled to be an atheist but not to slag off those who follow a religion and live a good life.
The bad thing that can happen with respect to a religion is that unscrupulous people can use it to their own selfish ends by influencing young people. We see this now of course. It is not an acceptable excuse for running religion down, it is not the fault of the religion.
We are living now in a greedy, acquisitive, and uncaring society compared to how people behaved not all that long ago. I don't think that is anything to be proud of.
Les
06 August 2006, 08:07 PM
#486
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Leslie,
When I say that religion is mass delusion, I'm simply stating things how they are. If a single person started claiming something highly improbable for which there was no evidence - perhaps that they were created by a divine being who was talking to them via their microwave oven and telling them how to lead their life - we'd probably recommend they were sectioned. However, if a billion people claim something highly improbable and again for which there is no evidence - perhaps that they were created by a divine being whose instructions about how to lead their lives are contained in an ancient book - then that's somehow accepted. The truth of course is that there is no difference between these positions; both are absurd.
Your belief that tolerance for others is a trait of religion is actually rather amusing. It's precisely because most mainstream religions are based on intolerance that millions have died - and continue to die - in their name. Passage after passage of our religious texts, with their talk of scourging, burning, judging etc for arbitrary transgressions testify to this. And if you really believe that Book A tells you how "god" wants man to live on earth, then by definition it's hard to be tolerant of people who follow Book B which tells them a different manner in which "god" wants men to live. Intolerance and religion go hand in hand.
It is of course true that religion has motivated lots of people to act unselfishly and in aid of their fellow man. However I don't believe that such faith is a necessary motivator for doing so. Is it really necessary to believe in fairy tales about how the world was created in order to behave in an ethical fashion? I don't think so.
If I thought that more good than bad came out of religion or that religious ideas were "harmless" ones to have then I probably wouldn't "rant" about it (as you put it). But to my mind the countless acts of suffering - with the potential for even more horrific ones in future as weaponry poliferates and becomes more advanced - far outweigh any good that has come from such beliefs.
Gary.
When I say that religion is mass delusion, I'm simply stating things how they are. If a single person started claiming something highly improbable for which there was no evidence - perhaps that they were created by a divine being who was talking to them via their microwave oven and telling them how to lead their life - we'd probably recommend they were sectioned. However, if a billion people claim something highly improbable and again for which there is no evidence - perhaps that they were created by a divine being whose instructions about how to lead their lives are contained in an ancient book - then that's somehow accepted. The truth of course is that there is no difference between these positions; both are absurd.
Your belief that tolerance for others is a trait of religion is actually rather amusing. It's precisely because most mainstream religions are based on intolerance that millions have died - and continue to die - in their name. Passage after passage of our religious texts, with their talk of scourging, burning, judging etc for arbitrary transgressions testify to this. And if you really believe that Book A tells you how "god" wants man to live on earth, then by definition it's hard to be tolerant of people who follow Book B which tells them a different manner in which "god" wants men to live. Intolerance and religion go hand in hand.
It is of course true that religion has motivated lots of people to act unselfishly and in aid of their fellow man. However I don't believe that such faith is a necessary motivator for doing so. Is it really necessary to believe in fairy tales about how the world was created in order to behave in an ethical fashion? I don't think so.
If I thought that more good than bad came out of religion or that religious ideas were "harmless" ones to have then I probably wouldn't "rant" about it (as you put it). But to my mind the countless acts of suffering - with the potential for even more horrific ones in future as weaponry poliferates and becomes more advanced - far outweigh any good that has come from such beliefs.
Gary.
06 August 2006, 09:25 PM
#487
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Les, you clearly have your own definition of Christianity, but it needs a tighter definition if you are not to lay yourself open to criticism. There are many people who would call themselves Christians, and leave it at that as if everybody understands. But there are actually a great many large differences between them - enough for them to kill each other. Both thougout history, and also very recently, as in Northern Ireland. You might argue that NI is not a religious dispute, but they fight under Christian Catholic and Protestant banners. I don't know how many other branches of Christianity there are - at least a dozen mainstream and countless other off-shoots.
There are surely as many different flavours of Islam and it is evidently the case that the majority of Muslims are peace loving and peace keeping. Equally, others are able to find scope in various holy texts that absolutely condone the most extreme violence.
Personally, I have always considered myself Humanist, but a little research shows that even this can be a difficult position to be in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanist makes a promising start:
"Humanism is a broad category of active ethical philosophies that affirm the dignity and worth of all people, based on the ability to determine right and wrong by appeal to universal human qualities—particularly rationalism. Humanism is a component of a variety of more specific philosophical systems, and is also incorporated into some religious schools of thought.
"Humanism entails a commitment to the search for truth and morality through human means in support of human interests. In focusing on the capacity for self-determination, humanism rejects transcendental justifications, such as a dependence on faith, the supernatural, or divinely revealed texts. Humanists endorse universal morality based on the commonality of human nature, suggesting that solutions to our social and cultural problems cannot be parochial."
But then, even this - surely the most logical of beliefs - hits the rocks:
"A number of religious humanists feel that secular humanism is too coldly logical and rejects the full emotional experience that makes us human. From this comes the notion that secular humanism is inadequate in meeting the human need for a socially fulfilling philosophy of life. Disagreements over things of this nature have resulted in friction between secular and religious humanists, despite their commonalities."
Which brings me back to my initial thesis that man is fundamentally tribal, and indeed this instinct - the survival of the fittest - is at the heart of our evolution and development as a species. Different religions are labels used for different tribes. That is always going to end in tears, one way or the other.
Not a rosy outlook, is it?
Richard.
There are surely as many different flavours of Islam and it is evidently the case that the majority of Muslims are peace loving and peace keeping. Equally, others are able to find scope in various holy texts that absolutely condone the most extreme violence.
Personally, I have always considered myself Humanist, but a little research shows that even this can be a difficult position to be in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanist makes a promising start:
"Humanism is a broad category of active ethical philosophies that affirm the dignity and worth of all people, based on the ability to determine right and wrong by appeal to universal human qualities—particularly rationalism. Humanism is a component of a variety of more specific philosophical systems, and is also incorporated into some religious schools of thought.
"Humanism entails a commitment to the search for truth and morality through human means in support of human interests. In focusing on the capacity for self-determination, humanism rejects transcendental justifications, such as a dependence on faith, the supernatural, or divinely revealed texts. Humanists endorse universal morality based on the commonality of human nature, suggesting that solutions to our social and cultural problems cannot be parochial."
But then, even this - surely the most logical of beliefs - hits the rocks:
"A number of religious humanists feel that secular humanism is too coldly logical and rejects the full emotional experience that makes us human. From this comes the notion that secular humanism is inadequate in meeting the human need for a socially fulfilling philosophy of life. Disagreements over things of this nature have resulted in friction between secular and religious humanists, despite their commonalities."
Which brings me back to my initial thesis that man is fundamentally tribal, and indeed this instinct - the survival of the fittest - is at the heart of our evolution and development as a species. Different religions are labels used for different tribes. That is always going to end in tears, one way or the other.
Not a rosy outlook, is it?
Richard.
Last edited by Hoppy; 06 August 2006 at 09:44 PM.
06 August 2006, 09:42 PM
#488
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Les and Gary, if you both use slightly less confrontational language, I think your respective positions might actually be quite close in practise, even if you arrive at them from different starting points.
Just a thought
Richard.
Just a thought
Richard.
06 August 2006, 10:52 PM
#489
Moses, where did you trawl that load of crap up from, what is a Muslim doing on a white Supremacist site, are you getting to know the ememy or do you feel less threatened by a load of American white power nutters than the Jewish ?
I saw a trailer about the upcoming despatches programme and to be honest I can sort of see the point, English women are immoral and English men are drunks, thats kind of true for some and our society does need some sorting out but for the vast majority it isn't the case, we dont need Shariah law and to be honest I dont really think burning Gays and stoning adulterers is really on.
I can see what Muslims think of us might not be very positive and things do need to change but theres the point, I say our culture needs to change but there is no flexibility the other way because all the rules where laid down 2000 odd years ago, anything old gets respect and reverence and people dont dare to change it even if its wrong.
Good job there was nothing in Shariah law about driving Taxi's after 2am as I would have been knackered the other night.
I saw a trailer about the upcoming despatches programme and to be honest I can sort of see the point, English women are immoral and English men are drunks, thats kind of true for some and our society does need some sorting out but for the vast majority it isn't the case, we dont need Shariah law and to be honest I dont really think burning Gays and stoning adulterers is really on.
I can see what Muslims think of us might not be very positive and things do need to change but theres the point, I say our culture needs to change but there is no flexibility the other way because all the rules where laid down 2000 odd years ago, anything old gets respect and reverence and people dont dare to change it even if its wrong.
Good job there was nothing in Shariah law about driving Taxi's after 2am as I would have been knackered the other night.
06 August 2006, 10:58 PM
#490
Originally Posted by J4CKO
I saw a trailer about the upcoming despatches programme and to be honest I can sort of see the point, English women are immoral and English men are drunks, thats kind of true for some and our society does need some sorting out but for the vast majority it isn't the case, we dont need Shariah law and to be honest I dont really think burning Gays and stoning adulterers is really on.
We don't need to have laws enforcing moral standards, as long as their behaviour isn't criminal I can't see the problem.
And I'm sure that the National Council for Muslim Swingers would agree with me too.
06 August 2006, 11:05 PM
#491
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Originally Posted by J4CKO
Moses, where did you trawl that load of crap up from, what is a Muslim doing on a white Supremacist site, are you getting to know the ememy or do you feel less threatened by a load of American white power nutters than the Jewish ?
I saw a trailer about the upcoming despatches programme and to be honest I can sort of see the point, English women are immoral and English men are drunks, thats kind of true for some and our society does need some sorting out but for the vast majority it isn't the case, we dont need Shariah law and to be honest I dont really think burning Gays and stoning adulterers is really on.
I can see what Muslims think of us might not be very positive and things do need to change but theres the point, I say our culture needs to change but there is no flexibility the other way because all the rules where laid down 2000 odd years ago, anything old gets respect and reverence and people dont dare to change it even if its wrong.
Good job there was nothing in Shariah law about driving Taxi's after 2am as I would have been knackered the other night.
I saw a trailer about the upcoming despatches programme and to be honest I can sort of see the point, English women are immoral and English men are drunks, thats kind of true for some and our society does need some sorting out but for the vast majority it isn't the case, we dont need Shariah law and to be honest I dont really think burning Gays and stoning adulterers is really on.
I can see what Muslims think of us might not be very positive and things do need to change but theres the point, I say our culture needs to change but there is no flexibility the other way because all the rules where laid down 2000 odd years ago, anything old gets respect and reverence and people dont dare to change it even if its wrong.
Good job there was nothing in Shariah law about driving Taxi's after 2am as I would have been knackered the other night.
dude i just got one thing to say mate
see im mind is very active, if i dont read or go and check out various sites, i dont get a peace of mind, i need to keep on reading
yrs and yrs ago i came across the aryan nations and stormfront.org and david duke stuff, i woz looking for stories on the waffen ss muslim division aka hitlers white muslims from europe and i came across those sites and what stunned me woz these c;unts had muslim holy prayers in arabic and english translations and how they were twisting stuff for their own filth, i felt sad that happened and their playing games and using muslim sentiments for their own filthy purpose, they dont have no guts to take onthe zogs of the usa themselves and r supporting extreme fanatice who happen to be muslims so they can go and twist the minds of their youth and make an alliance between the aryan and fanatics from islamic backgrounds to take onthe evil of zion
see long time ago hitler and himmler used the muslim sentiments against british and french colonialism from the middle east to africa and defiled the muslim youths mind with the help of the grand mufti of jerusalem who wanted revenge on the zionist jews who took over the land where he woz born and now u see the aryan nations doing something similar
i hope some muslims arent stupid enuff to follow their plots coz in the end these so called aryan dicks will want to cleanse anything not white
and while i woz checking the link again for the latest i came across joanne's open letter
i posted it coz it woz a good read and talks about basic morals and truth
thats all dude
cheers
jacko i have been here for yrs and u know i luv woman, i luv woman so much i want them to protect their dignity too , their not a piece of meat , their r mothers to the earth, the ones who gave birth to kings, presidents, prime ministers and mankind as a whole
we owe it to our woman to protect and luv them and to treat them kindly and to teach them to have a lil dignity
yes i luv nice models im guilty of my lusts but in my heart i have respect for them
peace
06 August 2006, 11:19 PM
#493
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Religion is all bullsh ite.
There is no god, there is only goverments. People have to wake up to the fact that they are preaching to the sky not "our lord"
Its all fake IMHO.
There is no god, there is only goverments. People have to wake up to the fact that they are preaching to the sky not "our lord"
Its all fake IMHO.
07 August 2006, 10:49 AM
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awesome read
the new guerrila warfare , hezbollah style
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14208385/
galloway vid
http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/vi...060806,00.html
the new guerrila warfare , hezbollah style
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14208385/
galloway vid
http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/vi...060806,00.html
Last edited by moses; 07 August 2006 at 11:01 AM.
07 August 2006, 11:12 AM
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Hoppy,
You might be right in parts, and I agree about the confrontational language. Probably if we had a beer or two we might well agree to disagree in certain cases but to disagree in others.
Les
You might be right in parts, and I agree about the confrontational language. Probably if we had a beer or two we might well agree to disagree in certain cases but to disagree in others.
Les
07 August 2006, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Leslie
Hoppy,
You might be right in parts, and I agree about the confrontational language. Probably if we had a beer or two we might well agree to disagree in certain cases but to disagree in others.
Les
You might be right in parts, and I agree about the confrontational language. Probably if we had a beer or two we might well agree to disagree in certain cases but to disagree in others.
Les
That's fine by me. It's such a tragedy that the Palestinians and Israelis cannot do this, or that things have been allowed to go so far, that war is the inevitable conclusion
I'm deeply saddened by this conflict, and further distressed that some people, on both sides, now appear to be revelling in mutual slaughter
Richard.
Last edited by Hoppy; 07 August 2006 at 01:09 PM.
07 August 2006, 12:21 PM
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gary,
you neglected that the death penalty under those circumstances is only enforceable when the guilty party was forwarned by two people that that action was punishable by death and if those same two people witnessed the action.
As a result barely anyone was ever exectued. The rules in that respect were there to create a better society. Incidentally not believing in g-d was not punishable by death, especially not if you wren't jewish.
Don't confuse these rules and these punishments with modern day audi arabia etc with people being executed left right and centre and having their hands cut off. The jewish religion is not like that now and never has been.
you neglected that the death penalty under those circumstances is only enforceable when the guilty party was forwarned by two people that that action was punishable by death and if those same two people witnessed the action.
As a result barely anyone was ever exectued. The rules in that respect were there to create a better society. Incidentally not believing in g-d was not punishable by death, especially not if you wren't jewish.
Don't confuse these rules and these punishments with modern day audi arabia etc with people being executed left right and centre and having their hands cut off. The jewish religion is not like that now and never has been.
07 August 2006, 12:38 PM
#498
Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
So what if they are all drunks and of loose morals, it's nothing to do with the Muslims or anyone else for that matter. The nerve of them saying they want Shariah law in this country. Those sort of people make me sick.
Kiwi, yep I am with you, its not really up to the Muslim community to impose itself over British life/cuture etc, but thinking about it a British Muslim does have a voice and is entitle to an opinion as anybody is and we dont have to capitulate, however perhaps they have a point and one that is agreed upon generally on here judging by the number posts/threads that reccount instances of violence, drunkeness, lack of respect for authority or anybody else for this matter, so many threads going on about Britain descending into Asbo Chavdom, people revelling in fecklessness, binge drinking, eating ****e, watching crap telly, laziness, scrounging, theiving and living off state handouts as a way of life rather than a safety net.
I am guilty of some of it (Saturday morning I felt particularly wretched for instance) but it doesnt stop me wanting to change, I dont want my kids to grow up with some of the values that are around today, conversely I just hope people dont start behaving even worse just to make a point to the Muslim comminity. I can see where Leslie is coming from, perhaps not the religous bit but perhaps things were a bit better when everything wasnt so accessible, I find things a bit overpowering to be honest, too much choice, too much bombardment, sometimes simpler is better for people even though they may not think so.
I think Moses's sentiments regarding women are admirable and I too respect women but the trouble with the whole approach is that women are seen as something weak and inferior to be protected which I think is quite demeaning
as to be honest these days I think blokes get the ****ty end of the stick and by and large need protecting from women. Look at the **** industry, its not just men calling the shots these days, the women earn more and a lot say they enjoy it and why shouldnt they ?, they sell their wares and make money from blokes, seems fair to me and who's the victim. Anyway Moses, you have broadband, you arent telling me that you haven't had a a little peek........
Last edited by J4CKO; 07 August 2006 at 12:43 PM.
07 August 2006, 12:40 PM
#499
And Moses,
I dont reallyt consider this as an appropriate recommendation for the value of Woman !
'the ones who gave birth to kings, presidents, prime ministers and mankind as a whole'
Bush 'n' Blair are in that list.
I dont reallyt consider this as an appropriate recommendation for the value of Woman !
'the ones who gave birth to kings, presidents, prime ministers and mankind as a whole'
Bush 'n' Blair are in that list.
07 August 2006, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by J4CKO
And Moses,
I dont reallyt consider this as an appropriate recommendation for the value of Woman !
'the ones who gave birth to kings, presidents, prime ministers and mankind as a whole'
Bush 'n' Blair are in that list.
I dont reallyt consider this as an appropriate recommendation for the value of Woman !
'the ones who gave birth to kings, presidents, prime ministers and mankind as a whole'
Bush 'n' Blair are in that list.
lol thats a nice one, made me laff, i woz giving an example dude
07 August 2006, 05:51 PM
#501
Originally Posted by J4CKO
Kiwi, yep I am with you, its not really up to the Muslim community to impose itself over British life/cuture etc, but thinking about it a British Muslim does have a voice and is entitle to an opinion as anybody is and we dont have to capitulate, however perhaps they have a point and one that is agreed upon generally on here judging by the number posts/threads that reccount instances of violence, drunkeness, lack of respect for authority or anybody else for this matter, so many threads going on about Britain descending into Asbo Chavdom, people revelling in fecklessness, binge drinking, eating ****e, watching crap telly, laziness, scrounging, theiving and living off state handouts as a way of life rather than a safety net.
At the end of the day I don't see any Muslim countries as being anything special or worthy of much respect, the majority are backwards, poor with wealth distributed unevenly.
For all our loose morals the West is by far the most successful and advanced civilisation on earth. We've obviously done something right.
The British have always been heavy drinkers anyway throughout the centuries, so nothing has really changed.
07 August 2006, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Adam M
the death penalty under those circumstances is only enforceable when the guilty party was forwarned by two people that that action was punishable by death and if those same two people witnessed the action.
Originally Posted by Leslie
You might be right in parts, and I agree about the confrontational language. Probably if we had a beer or two we might well agree to disagree in certain cases but to disagree in others.
16 August 2006, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Petem95
Not going to happen Moses, Israel has by far the most powerful military in the Middle East - and its backed up the country with the most powerful military in the World (the US), and Britain. The Arab countries are just too weak to stand up against that.
Mujahideen from all over the world will do nothing - they are only ever going to be poorly trained, poorly equiped and poorly organised - despite what the "come and fight with your bruvs" propaganda video at the mosque may have suggested
I just wish Hezbolla would give up the captured soldiers, so Israel can pull out and stop the bombings.
Mujahideen from all over the world will do nothing - they are only ever going to be poorly trained, poorly equiped and poorly organised - despite what the "come and fight with your bruvs" propaganda video at the mosque may have suggested
I just wish Hezbolla would give up the captured soldiers, so Israel can pull out and stop the bombings.
just for u pete, i told u, u underestimated the mujahideen and told u israel will get a pounding a post before the above
hezbollah kicked israeli *** and sent them packing like dogs with their tails between their legs, the 4th most powerful army, humbled in history only by hezbollah 3 to 4 times and this time they got a right kicking, from a militia who has not even 5% of the artillery israel has
they had courage and faith in God, they didnt care about israel#s f-16'sm tanks, army or bunker busters or even their nuclear weapons, the same israel who bitch slapped the arab rats who didnt have faith in 6 days got bitch slapped from a militia
im glad u r a witness of what i told u will happen
in the quran God says if u have faith and even if u r only 100, u can defeat a 1000 men
and also we spoke about hezbollah capturing the soldiers, did u know they just found out, they planned this with america a long time ago, they needed an excuse to invade lebanon and finish of hezbollah, whoever God keeps, no one can finish them, just remember that
it feels good to see israel humbled by a handful of people
their weapons and power didnt do nothing for them and proved the cowards that they r they can only kill innocents from the skies
this is a brilliant win , good vs evil aggression from israel
bravo mate, how do u feel, be honest, dont u feel good
16 August 2006, 01:13 PM
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I don't see how you cn say Hezbollah have humbled Israel, or kicked their *** or whatever.
It's quite clear here that neither side is victorious, morally or actually, and just innocents (as usual) have paid the price. Both sides are guilty of de-stabilising the region.
Geezer
It's quite clear here that neither side is victorious, morally or actually, and just innocents (as usual) have paid the price. Both sides are guilty of de-stabilising the region.
Geezer
16 August 2006, 01:19 PM
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quote from Moses "in the quran God says if u have faith and even if u r only 100, u can defeat a 1000 men"
how do you reconcile that with the Yom Kippur war, when all the arab countries attacked Israel on the most holy day, when they were all starving from the fast, yet the Israelis, heavily outnumbered whipped there asses??
get a grip. no one wins in war
how do you reconcile that with the Yom Kippur war, when all the arab countries attacked Israel on the most holy day, when they were all starving from the fast, yet the Israelis, heavily outnumbered whipped there asses??
get a grip. no one wins in war