daiscooby

Oh look, its the way of the Middle East.

Its been going on for Millenia, it started off with bows and arrows and slings and stones.

Now it is Qassam rockets from Hezzbullah and F16's with Mavericks from Israel.

The difference is cameras, and world outrage.

warrenm2

Try reading this

Makes some interesting points!

Leslie

Can't blame Israel for wanting to subjugate Hezbollah completely after all the outrages they have committed against Israel. In many ways it is a pity that the Lebanese accepted Hezbollah's presence thinking it may help their own defence. Hezbollah is committed to driving Israel into the sea!

I very much regret the destruction of Lebanon's infrastrucure and the death of its civilians. Israel's attack is being compared to the destruction and the deaths of civilians that we were a part of in Iraq in support of the US.

The only thing you can say for Israel is that they have a positive excuse for attacking Hezbollah whereas we were told lies by Billy and his rather queer cronies. No wonder no one out there will take any notice of what we might say anymore as Billy admitted during his "private" conversation with Mr Yo.

Les

Hoppy

Thanks Warren, that is a very good link. For those seeking a brief history of the background and objectives of the present conflict, it is a few minutes very well spent.

I was also drawn to another article simply titled Londonistan, and I've picked out the quote below which I think gives us all cause for thought:

"The suicide bombings carried out in London in 2005 by British Muslims revealed an alarming network of Islamist terrorists and their sympathizers. Under the noses of British intelligence, London became the European hub for the promotion, recruitment and financing of Islamist terror and extremism - so much so that it has been mockingly dubbed 'Londonistan'. In this ground-breaking book, Melanie Phillips pieces together the story of how Londonistan developed as a result of the collapse of British self-confidence and national identity and its resulting paralysis by multiculturalism and appeasement. The result is an ugly climate in Britain of irrationality and defeatism, which now threatens to undermine the alliance with America and imperil the defence of the free world."

Do you believe in multiculturalism and appeasement? I think most of us do. But are you also bewildered by our inability to think clearly as a nation that is so often gripped by confusion and, frankly, apathy towards this conflict (and so many that have gone before it)? Where does Britain stand on world politics? All over the place, it would seem.

Richard.

GCollier

Agreed, an interesting link.

When considering the morality of this situation it can be argued that Israel show remarkable restraint whilst surrounded by people who actively wish for their destruction.

Israel almost certainly have WMD and so far haven't used them. I doubt this would also be the case if they were in the hands of Hezbollah, Hamas and other groups of people who seek the destruction of the Israeli state and Jewry down to the last man.

Gary.

Brendan Hughes

Sorry, but having had first hand experience of how Melanie Philips twists the truth in the name of grossly biased shock journalism, I haven't even opened the link.

warrenm2

Why dont you actually read it and then point out the errors to us lesser mortals oh great one?

Was it the ball bearings on the rockets bit? - Nope


So what would you actually have Israel do? Nothing? Negotiate a peace having had their soldiers kidnapped and their cities shelled? Or recognise there is a war going on against them and so fight a war? What did Britain do when we were being bombed in the 70s? We sent SAS troops into Northern Ireland to assasinate IRA members! If you just roll over every time an aggressor attacks you, it just motivates them to continue to do so and the situation gets worse - it's called appeasement and it doesnt work

warrenm2

Also interesting parallels with what happened 24 years ago....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Lebanon_War

Brendan Hughes

Eh? What are you on?

Britain sent in SAS, I don't think it sent jets and bulldozers to reduce entire streets in NI to rubble just because there were terrorists living there.

Both sides are committing atrocities, the little difference AIUI is that one is committed by, as referred earlier, the professional army of an elected democracy.

LOL at your appeasement example - tell us more about the Good Friday agreement, why don't you...

BTW I do believe Melanie Philips is Jewish - just lets keep our conflicts of interest declared, shall we?

Luan Pra bang

Melanie Phillips spouts pro Israeli anti Muslim rubbish 5 days a week in the daily mail. Her completely unobjective rantings are no better than the rubbish spouted by the likes of Abu Hamza. The only difference is that she gets to write for a newspaper with a decidedly dubious history. It also needs to be said that Israel has had its own fair share of terrorists who have killed their share of English soldiers but their terrorists went on to be prime ministers and key political figures so thats OK then

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Let's hope there isn't another Sabra and Shatila.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila

DCI Gene Hunt

I know that emotions are runny high, and well... I know that technically this isn't considered 'mini' but..........

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

Read a piece the other day ,how Israeli soldiers were actively encouraging children to write messages of hate on shells about to be used on Lebanon




Do you think America would have supported us so staunchly If we had bombed Ireland indiscriminately,wiping out whole towns just to get at the IRA?

DCI Gene Hunt

Why bomb Ireland indiscriminately? you just need one bomb dropped here!!!




All the paddy's would die of thirst............

Brendan Hughes

Richard, if your point is it's meaningless as there's no-one to enforce it, then that's cynical but occasionally correct (unfortunately). But not that meaningless - see the last few paras of this story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5206908.stm

"The Bush administration has faced intense and sustained international criticism for its treatment of prisoners - in Iraq, Afghanistan and at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.

Earlier this month, the White House announced that all US military detainees would be treated in line with the minimum standards of the Geneva Conventions.

The shift in policy came almost two weeks after the US Supreme Court ruled that the conventions applied to detainees.

The Geneva Conventions, which were passed in the wake of World War II, are meant to guarantee minimum standards of protection for non-combatants and former combatants in war. "


Strange as it may seem, there are rules of what you can and cannot do in war. How to enforce them - yes, that's a whole different question.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

America was actively funding the IRA via Noraid. Infact somebody whilst on holiday there was approached in a bar and asked to donate money for this cause. Being a staunch Englishman he politely declined and asked if he could instead donate to the Native American fund to enable them to fight for independence. Suffice to say this didn't go down too well and he was asked to vacate the premises forthwith.

warrenm2

Unobjective rantings - bit like your post then?

Fine, if you have a problem with her article I linked - please point out how its biased or inaccurate, rather than name calling. I await your factual reply

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Pardon me but I didn't detect any name calling in the post you refer to.

warrenm2

To clarify - I meant that he was slagging off the articles author with no specific points just that she writes rubbish

David Lock

Thank you mods. dl

DCI Gene Hunt

What for?

Maz

iTrader: (34)

I wondered that too!

DCI Gene Hunt

It might be that I posted a 'arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics' banner...............

But I deleted that post myself, not the mods....... thought people wouldn't see the funny side............ and maybe I was RIGHT

Luan Pra bang

Israel is getting citizens to leave areas then bombing the convoys of civilains leaving so not really true. Also Israel is bombing Beriut and the whole countrys infrasctructure. How can bombing the notioriously liberal "Paris of the east be considerd targeting Terrorists."

Luan Pra bang

A few rockets launced into occupied territory and Haifa is hardley an "annihilatory attack"

Luan Pra bang

Yep looks like is struggling doesn't it. American supplied jets, helicopters, and tanks vs stones and a few rockets.

Luan Pra bang

Does not really need a response that particular line of rubbish does it.
I could go on and on for almost every sentence in that article but it is clearly complete bull**** from start to finish.

Suresh

I read that pro-Israeli garbage too and have to say that I agree with you.

Luan Pra bang

How about over 1 million Arabs moved and subject to constant terrorist attacks from Irgun, a state sponsord Zionist group who also attacked and assassinated British diplomats civil servants and blew up hundreds of people at the king david hotel. Irguns leader went on to become prime minister of Israel.