Israel, right or wrong?
24 July 2006, 12:49 PM
#211
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Originally Posted by Suresh
I read that pro-Israeli garbage too and have to say that I agree with you. 
24 July 2006, 12:59 PM
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Melanie Philips article is so loaded with rubbish it is very hard to start. You guys are making some good points but there is so much. Israel treat their neighbours as scum with no right to life. This, from a group who were so badly treated in WW2 - sure they are the last people to deny Palestinians a life ?
Whatever you feel there is no reason for bombing Lebanon to collapse. That will neither make Israel safer, nor help lebanon fight the terrorists. How can Israel even talk abt security council resolutions when they are in breach of so many.
Whatever you feel there is no reason for bombing Lebanon to collapse. That will neither make Israel safer, nor help lebanon fight the terrorists. How can Israel even talk abt security council resolutions when they are in breach of so many.
24 July 2006, 01:01 PM
#213
So why have the Jews been the most universally hated ethnic group throughout history?
"Persecuted" by Babylonians, Assyrians, Ancient Egyptians, the Romans, the Greeks, the Persians, the French, the English, the Spanish (most of Europe actually), the Crusades, the Muslims, the U.S (read what George Washington and Benjamin Franklin said), Germany etc.
No smoke without fire. They generally don't have nice characteristics and the world is learning that again now.
The Holocaust, while a tragedy, has been completely over-hyped and used by the Jews, even some of them agree (Finkelstein et al), and many people use the simplistic argument that that is what causes them to act in the way they do now, whereas I think it runs much deeper.
I'm sure that all you goyim or gentiles will now be rushing to their defence.
"Persecuted" by Babylonians, Assyrians, Ancient Egyptians, the Romans, the Greeks, the Persians, the French, the English, the Spanish (most of Europe actually), the Crusades, the Muslims, the U.S (read what George Washington and Benjamin Franklin said), Germany etc.
No smoke without fire. They generally don't have nice characteristics and the world is learning that again now.
The Holocaust, while a tragedy, has been completely over-hyped and used by the Jews, even some of them agree (Finkelstein et al), and many people use the simplistic argument that that is what causes them to act in the way they do now, whereas I think it runs much deeper.
I'm sure that all you goyim or gentiles will now be rushing to their defence.
Last edited by KiwiGTI; 24 July 2006 at 01:40 PM.
24 July 2006, 01:04 PM
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I have to say that I regret to see your anti semitism KiwiGTI. I have no connection with the Jewish faith!
You should have been around 70 years ago, you would have done well-until 1945!
Les
You should have been around 70 years ago, you would have done well-until 1945!
Les
Last edited by Leslie; 24 July 2006 at 01:12 PM.
24 July 2006, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
They generally don't have nice characteristics and the world is learning that again now.
The Holocaust, while a tragedy, has been completely over-hyped
The Holocaust, while a tragedy, has been completely over-hyped
What with this, the JCdM thread, and all the stuff about immigrants, I'd say that Scoobynetters "generally don't have nice characteristics".
Six million people, half the race, gassed in 4 years and you say completely over hyped?
I foresee this thread coming to an abrupt end quite soon.
24 July 2006, 01:17 PM
#216
Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
So why have the Jews been the most universally hated ethnic group throughout history?
"Persecuted" by Babylonians, Assyrians, Ancient Egyptians, the Romans, the Greeks, the Persians, the French, the English, the Spanish (most of Europe actually), the Crusades, the Muslims, the U.S (read what George Washington and Benjamin Franklin said), Germany etc.
No smoke without fire. They generally don't have nice characteristics and the world is learning that again now.
The Holocaust, while a tragedy, has been completely over-hyped and used by the Jews, even some of them agree (Feinstein et al), and many people use the simplistic argument that that is what causes them to act in the way they do now, whereas I think it runs much deeper.
I'm sure that all you goyim or gentiles will now be rushing to their defence.
"Persecuted" by Babylonians, Assyrians, Ancient Egyptians, the Romans, the Greeks, the Persians, the French, the English, the Spanish (most of Europe actually), the Crusades, the Muslims, the U.S (read what George Washington and Benjamin Franklin said), Germany etc.
No smoke without fire. They generally don't have nice characteristics and the world is learning that again now.
The Holocaust, while a tragedy, has been completely over-hyped and used by the Jews, even some of them agree (Feinstein et al), and many people use the simplistic argument that that is what causes them to act in the way they do now, whereas I think it runs much deeper.
I'm sure that all you goyim or gentiles will now be rushing to their defence.
I have said it before and I will say it again you do like to inflame situations. I wholeheartedly agree with your completely honest and straight to the point nature as opposed to flanelling but surely some diplomacy and decorum is needed. There is good and bad in ALL races not just Jews. History has proven the Jews have provided some of the most prolific personas, Einstein to name but one. Often it is people who act in the name of others who are to blame rather than castigating a race as a whole.
Maz
24 July 2006, 01:32 PM
#217
Originally Posted by Brendan Hughes
Six million people, half the race, gassed in 4 years and you say completely over hyped?
1 millions Armenians killed in 1915, the millions killed by the Khmer Rouge, the staggering amount of Russians murdered (makes 6 million look small) and that isn't mentioning the Roma, Jehovahs Witnesses, Homosexuals and Communists also killed by the *****. Throw in a few more millions from Africa for good measure.
24 July 2006, 01:45 PM
#218
Originally Posted by Einstein RA
I have said it before and I will say it again you do like to inflame situations. I wholeheartedly agree with your completely honest and straight to the point nature as opposed to flanelling but surely some diplomacy and decorum is needed. There is good and bad in ALL races not just Jews. History has proven the Jews have provided some of the most prolific personas, Einstein to name but one. Often it is people who act in the name of others who are to blame rather than castigating a race as a whole.
Maz
Maz
But the fact is they come across as un-read and unable to hold a good argument without reverting to personal abuse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Finkelstein
The son of Holocaust survivors, Finkelstein is known for his writings pertaining to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and for his view that the Holocaust is being exploited for pro-Jewish/Israel political ends.
Last edited by KiwiGTI; 24 July 2006 at 02:27 PM.
24 July 2006, 02:13 PM
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I have always thought that the Holocaust was 'over-hyped' for want of a better term.
The ***** exterminated (not in combat) about 18 million people, 6 million of whom were Jews. The others don't seem to get a mention. Does seem rather one sided. I'm sure that the situation was explioted to the full to aid in the creation of a Jewish State.
I think Judaism portrays itself as arrogant, even if the majority of Jews are not, and that is part of the problem.
Geezer
The ***** exterminated (not in combat) about 18 million people, 6 million of whom were Jews. The others don't seem to get a mention. Does seem rather one sided. I'm sure that the situation was explioted to the full to aid in the creation of a Jewish State.
I think Judaism portrays itself as arrogant, even if the majority of Jews are not, and that is part of the problem.
Geezer
24 July 2006, 02:22 PM
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Wow, tell me little girl what does it feel like to be overhyped?
ooops, that's right you can't as you were exterminated by the ****'s....
ooops, that's right you can't as you were exterminated by the ****'s....
24 July 2006, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Reality
We say it was over-hyped.
Although benji (third right) is also a jew - so maybe not.
Although benji (third right) is also a jew - so maybe not.
24 July 2006, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by DCI Gene Hunt
WTF is this picture about?
Describing the holocaust as "over-hyped" for one set of victims over another set does seem to be "odd".
Over hyped is what English commentators do about events surrounding the 1966 World Cup final !
To be fair most Jews don't seem to bang on about the holocaust seems to be the Americans / SNetters
24 July 2006, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by DCI Gene Hunt
Wow, tell me little girl what does it feel like to be overhyped?
ooops, that's right you can't as you were exterminated by the ****'s....
ooops, that's right you can't as you were exterminated by the ****'s....
Hey, all you millions of slavs, gypsies, homosexuals, catholics, doctors, intellectuals.... what did it feel like to be exterminated?
[collective answer] "wow, somebody finally gave a **** to ask!"
"oh sorry, we're not really interested, you weren't Jewish"
Geezer
24 July 2006, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
No smoke without fire. They generally don't have nice characteristics and the world is learning that again now.
Who the **** are you to talk about the characteristics of a whole race based on a tiny little country defending itself and refusing to lie down and die because it is hated.
No one is saying that other peoples haven't been persecuted. Darfur etc have to be a terrible example of a current situation. The jews are not playing on it, it is a recent memory and a frightening part of our history that has affected us all. why the hell shouldn't we continue to remember it?
Someone tried to wipe out the jews before, and a whole and very powerful religion seems intent on trying to do it again. I think we have every right to be concerned and take appropriate measures.
Having said that maybe surrendering and awaiting a second holocaust would be better since we don't tend to have very nice characters.
Please try to remove your head from your ****.
24 July 2006, 05:05 PM
#226
Originally Posted by Adam M
OMG, that is easily the most offensive thing to me I have seen written on scoobynet!
Certain traits are easily assigned to nations or peoples, it's a fact - get over it. if you want that image to improve then stop killing innocent civilians and voting in terrorists as your leaders.
PS: Remind me again of how much that tiny little country gets in aid from the US and of the size and capability of that countries armed forces.
24 July 2006, 05:08 PM
#227
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Originally Posted by Adam M
OMG, that is easily the most offensive thing to me I have seen written on scoobynet!
Who the **** are you to talk about the characteristics of a whole race based on a tiny little country defending itself and refusing to lie down and die because it is hated.
Who the **** are you to talk about the characteristics of a whole race based on a tiny little country defending itself and refusing to lie down and die because it is hated.
I still agree that what he originally said about the world coming to know it again now was oretty out of order though.
Geezer
24 July 2006, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Geezer
The Jews are not a race,
.They're not allowed to Marry non Jews for fear of ruining their blood line back to Jesus (or some such bollox) - Religion - you have to love it
24 July 2006, 05:34 PM
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the jews are a race, I suggest you do some research.
There are jewish genes and illnesses specific to jewish people such as tay-sachs, regardless of whether you are a white, black, yellow or whatever colour skinned jew.
One tribe of jews (the priests) share a genetic marker showing that all can be traced from the blood line of aaron - the real Moses' brother.
There are african tribes believed to be lost tribes of israel who to this day practice a form of judaism who have also displayed this same genetic marker.
There are jewish genes and illnesses specific to jewish people such as tay-sachs, regardless of whether you are a white, black, yellow or whatever colour skinned jew.
One tribe of jews (the priests) share a genetic marker showing that all can be traced from the blood line of aaron - the real Moses' brother.
There are african tribes believed to be lost tribes of israel who to this day practice a form of judaism who have also displayed this same genetic marker.
24 July 2006, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Adam M
the jews are a race, I suggest you do some research.
There are jewish genes and illnesses specific to jewish people such as tay-sachs, regardless of whether you are a white, black, yellow or whatever colour skinned jew.
One tribe of jews (the priests) share a genetic marker showing that all can be traced from the blood line of aaron - the real Moses' brother.
There are african tribes believed to be lost tribes of israel who to this day practice a form of judaism who have also displayed this same genetic marker.
There are jewish genes and illnesses specific to jewish people such as tay-sachs, regardless of whether you are a white, black, yellow or whatever colour skinned jew.
One tribe of jews (the priests) share a genetic marker showing that all can be traced from the blood line of aaron - the real Moses' brother.
There are african tribes believed to be lost tribes of israel who to this day practice a form of judaism who have also displayed this same genetic marker.
.
24 July 2006, 05:53 PM
#231
Originally Posted by Reality
Told ya .
.
Is hatred of criticism also a jewish thing? Point out the obvious and get labeled "ignorant, prejudiced and poisenous"
From my standpoint it's obvious the once-victim has become the oppressor and anyone who says so is the enemy!
From the biased link posted earlier -
"No matter. From the summit of Mount Self-Absorbtion, Britain’s lazy, ignorant, prejudiced intelligentsia yawns and flicks some more poison across the pages of the newspapers. In the Times, Matthew Parris languidly informs his readers that he won’t write about Israel because a) he’s too bored by the subject and b) it upsets his Jewish friends. Then he proceeds to write about Israel — and we can see why his Jewish friends would indeed be upset.
The past 40 years have been a catastrophe, gradual and incremental, for world Jewry. Seldom in history have the name and reputation of a human grouping lost so vast a store of support and sympathy so fast. My opinion — held not passionately but with little personal doubt — is that there is no point in arguing about whether the state of Israel should have been established where and when it was because it has become a fact. To try to remove it now would be at least as great an injustice as the one originally done to the Palestinians. But Israel’s best and perhaps only security for the future would be to rest upon a settlement that everyone the whole world over — everyone but the anti-Zionist fanatics — could see was reasonable. There would need to be no room left for argument. Then Israel would be able to feel confident of the full-hearted support not just of governments but of their peoples.
So holding his nose, Parris doesn’t actually side with the annihilation of Israel simply because, it would appear, he finds that intellectually rather vulgar — but is sure that Israel’s behaviour is the reason that other countries want to destroy it. Thus Parris blames the Jews for their own catastrophe."
24 July 2006, 06:28 PM
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why is parris' opinion any more valid than anyone else's?
why should any individuals opinion be given more credit than that of another?
Does he speak for the majority of people in the world?
I am totally fed up with the attitude that the actions of israel is always the same action as that of all jews around the world.
Jews outside israel support israel because we feel the need for a jewish state. It does not mean we necessarily agree with the way things are handled. Having said that, armed with the information that the israeli intelligence organisations gather every day, I am not sure I would act any differently if I were responsible for the long term security of the nation.
I also believe that most people in that position of responsibility and authrority might act similarly.
If your life has been threatened for 40 years solidly. If all your neighbours want you wiped off the planet regardless of where you live, if you had just come back from having 50% of your people executed, you too might feel a little paranoid/insecure or afraid, and dare I say it a little sensitive and perhaps over defensive.
why should any individuals opinion be given more credit than that of another?
Does he speak for the majority of people in the world?
I am totally fed up with the attitude that the actions of israel is always the same action as that of all jews around the world.
Jews outside israel support israel because we feel the need for a jewish state. It does not mean we necessarily agree with the way things are handled. Having said that, armed with the information that the israeli intelligence organisations gather every day, I am not sure I would act any differently if I were responsible for the long term security of the nation.
I also believe that most people in that position of responsibility and authrority might act similarly.
If your life has been threatened for 40 years solidly. If all your neighbours want you wiped off the planet regardless of where you live, if you had just come back from having 50% of your people executed, you too might feel a little paranoid/insecure or afraid, and dare I say it a little sensitive and perhaps over defensive.
24 July 2006, 06:50 PM
#233
Originally Posted by Adam M
why is parris' opinion any more valid than anyone else's?
Originally Posted by Adam M
why should any individuals opinion be given more credit than that of another?
Originally Posted by Adam M
Does he speak for the majority of people in the world?
Originally Posted by Adam M
I am totally fed up with the attitude that the actions of israel is always the same action as that of all jews around the world.
Jews outside israel support israel because we feel the need for a jewish state. It does not mean we necessarily agree with the way things are handled.
Jews outside israel support israel because we feel the need for a jewish state. It does not mean we necessarily agree with the way things are handled.
Originally Posted by Adam M
If your life has been threatened for 40 years solidly. If all your neighbours want you wiped off the planet regardless of where you live, if you had just come back from having 50% of your people executed, you too might feel a little paranoid/insecure or afraid, and dare I say it a little sensitive and perhaps over defensive.
24 July 2006, 07:48 PM
#234
Originally Posted by Adam M
the jews are a race, I suggest you do some research.
http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm
In the 1980s, the United States Supreme Court ruled that Jews are a race, at least for purposes of certain anti-discrimination laws. Their reasoning: at the time these laws were passed, people routinely spoke of the "Jewish race" or the "Italian race" as well as the "Negro race," so that is what the legislators intended to protect.
But many Jews were deeply offended by that decision, offended by any hint that Jews could be considered a race. The idea of Jews as a race brings to mind nightmarish visions of **** Germany, where Jews were declared to be not just a race, but an inferior race that had to be rounded up into ghettos and exterminated like vermin.
But setting aside the emotional issues, Jews are clearly not a race.
Race is a genetic distinction, and refers to people with shared ancestry and shared genetic traits. You can't change your race; it's in your DNA. I could never become black or Asian no matter how much I might want to.
Common ancestry is not required to be a Jew. Many Jews worldwide share common ancestry, as shown by genetic research; however, you can be a Jew without sharing this common ancestry, for example, by converting. Thus, although I could never become black or Asian, blacks and Asians have become Jews (Sammy Davis Jr. and Connie Chung).
But many Jews were deeply offended by that decision, offended by any hint that Jews could be considered a race. The idea of Jews as a race brings to mind nightmarish visions of **** Germany, where Jews were declared to be not just a race, but an inferior race that had to be rounded up into ghettos and exterminated like vermin.
But setting aside the emotional issues, Jews are clearly not a race.
Race is a genetic distinction, and refers to people with shared ancestry and shared genetic traits. You can't change your race; it's in your DNA. I could never become black or Asian no matter how much I might want to.
Common ancestry is not required to be a Jew. Many Jews worldwide share common ancestry, as shown by genetic research; however, you can be a Jew without sharing this common ancestry, for example, by converting. Thus, although I could never become black or Asian, blacks and Asians have become Jews (Sammy Davis Jr. and Connie Chung).
24 July 2006, 08:14 PM
#236
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Originally Posted by Adam M
Jews outside israel support israel because we feel the need for a jewish state. It does not mean we necessarily agree with the way things are handled. Having said that, armed with the information that the israeli intelligence organisations gather every day, I am not sure I would act any differently if I were responsible for the long term security of the nation.
I also believe that most people in that position of responsibility and authrority might act similarly.
If your life has been threatened for 40 years solidly. If all your neighbours want you wiped off the planet regardless of where you live, if you had just come back from having 50% of your people executed, you too might feel a little paranoid/insecure or afraid, and dare I say it a little sensitive and perhaps over defensive.
I also believe that most people in that position of responsibility and authrority might act similarly.
If your life has been threatened for 40 years solidly. If all your neighbours want you wiped off the planet regardless of where you live, if you had just come back from having 50% of your people executed, you too might feel a little paranoid/insecure or afraid, and dare I say it a little sensitive and perhaps over defensive.
And no being a Jew is not a race
Its called a religion! If I suddenly became Jewish (hell would freeze over first) I don't all of a sudden change race just because of my religious beliefs.
Last edited by Bravo2zero_sps; 24 July 2006 at 08:16 PM.
24 July 2006, 08:21 PM
#237
Originally Posted by Adam M
There are jewish genes and illnesses specific to jewish people such as tay-sachs, regardless of whether you are a white, black, yellow or whatever colour skinned jew.
One tribe of jews (the priests) share a genetic marker showing that all can be traced from the blood line of aaron - the real Moses' brother.
There are african tribes believed to be lost tribes of israel who to this day practice a form of judaism who have also displayed this same genetic marker.
One tribe of jews (the priests) share a genetic marker showing that all can be traced from the blood line of aaron - the real Moses' brother.
There are african tribes believed to be lost tribes of israel who to this day practice a form of judaism who have also displayed this same genetic marker.
You are stating that the Jews are some kind of chosen race.
See what I mean.
24 July 2006, 08:43 PM
#238
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Originally Posted by Adam M
the jews are a race, I suggest you do some research.
There are jewish genes and illnesses specific to jewish people such as tay-sachs, regardless of whether you are a white, black, yellow or whatever colour skinned jew.
One tribe of jews (the priests) share a genetic marker showing that all can be traced from the blood line of aaron - the real Moses' brother.
There are african tribes believed to be lost tribes of israel who to this day practice a form of judaism who have also displayed this same genetic marker.
There are jewish genes and illnesses specific to jewish people such as tay-sachs, regardless of whether you are a white, black, yellow or whatever colour skinned jew.
One tribe of jews (the priests) share a genetic marker showing that all can be traced from the blood line of aaron - the real Moses' brother.
There are african tribes believed to be lost tribes of israel who to this day practice a form of judaism who have also displayed this same genetic marker.
Jewish genes indeed! And how did they get hold of this DNA that can be traced back to the mythical Moses?
That sort of rhetoric is one of the reasons why Jews have been so unpopular through the centuries, they actually believe they are some chosen race by God and everyone else is something lower.
I've heard some rubbish in my time, but Jewish genes! Thanks for the laugh bud!
Geezer
24 July 2006, 10:28 PM
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Israel would get a lot more support and sympathy if it actually showed any regard for innocent human beings. Fine go after the terrorists but they dont seem to give two hoots how many innocents are killed along the way. They seem to pride themselves on having bigger and bigger body counts.
Look at how many peace activists they have killed.
If they stopped making the lives of the people around them a complete and utter misery maybe people would leave them alone ? Just try to imagine what it would be like living in the occupied land, bullets and bombs coming through school windows ! Danger of your house being bulldozed at any time day or night. Danger of stray bullets hitting you in the streets. Danger of an Israeli 'security operation' being close by.
I have come to the conclusion war must keeps Israels economy going.
Look at how many peace activists they have killed.
If they stopped making the lives of the people around them a complete and utter misery maybe people would leave them alone ? Just try to imagine what it would be like living in the occupied land, bullets and bombs coming through school windows ! Danger of your house being bulldozed at any time day or night. Danger of stray bullets hitting you in the streets. Danger of an Israeli 'security operation' being close by.
I have come to the conclusion war must keeps Israels economy going.
24 July 2006, 10:38 PM
#240
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So yesterday a minibus packed with civilians, today a red cross convoy 
Whats coming tomorrow I dread to think, perhaps blowing up a childrens hospital?
I thought Sharon was a nightmare in charge but the new leader of Israel takes the biscuit.
After this Israel deserves everything it gets.
Whats coming tomorrow I dread to think, perhaps blowing up a childrens hospital? I thought Sharon was a nightmare in charge but the new leader of Israel takes the biscuit.
After this Israel deserves everything it gets.