plz a frank discussion with sensible folk not trolls
16 August 2006, 12:39 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by moses
u r entitled to your views as i am with mines
I just hope your offspring actually go to school................ and you don't 'teach' them.....
16 August 2006, 12:40 PM
#32
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also if u want to know whats in an israeli mind, this is a very good book
by arthur neslen a young english jew a very nice guy, he came on the islam channel and he interviewed alot of israeli's from mossad agents to arab jews and politicians
will give u a kind of an idea, of what im talking about, i bought the book a few months back when it came oot
http://www.plutobooks.com/
by arthur neslen a young english jew a very nice guy, he came on the islam channel and he interviewed alot of israeli's from mossad agents to arab jews and politicians
will give u a kind of an idea, of what im talking about, i bought the book a few months back when it came oot
http://www.plutobooks.com/
16 August 2006, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by DCI Gene Hunt
It's a muslim wurzel feckin gummage................ I just hope your offspring actually go to school................ and you don't 'teach' them.....
I just hope your offspring actually go to school................ and you don't 'teach' them.....where u born to be a pile
here i know how to get ride of u
for parasites like u, use above lol
16 August 2006, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by moses
sorry dude if u dont see the israeli regime as fascist
Originally Posted by dictionary.com
fas·cism
1. often Fascism
1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
2. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.
1. often Fascism
1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
2. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.
Originally Posted by moses
bulldozing a stone throwing kids house as an injustice
Originally Posted by moses
u r entitled to your views as i am with mines
Aren't you glad that you don't live under a fascist regime. Such as Iran's for example. Or Afganistan under the Talliban's control.
16 August 2006, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by dharbige
Bulldozing buildings that have already been bombed and could be unsafe is not in itself a bad thing. I do not know if this is what you are referring to. I have not seen any evidence of Israeli forces bulldozing houses just for the sake of it.
16 August 2006, 12:54 PM
#37
Straight answer is that the Muslims are going to fight for many organisations and countrys that have directly threatened or are involved with conflicts against the UK or her allies.
They are traitors because they could well end up facing British or allied forces.
The militant arm of Hezbollah is also considered to be a borderline as a terrorist organisation and so anyone joing them would be considered a terrorist. If the went to joing the Lebanese defence force then they probably wouldn't be considered a terrorist.
Also a pointless question as you know the answer already, the UK and US are largely controlled by the Zionists so will always support Israel.
They are traitors because they could well end up facing British or allied forces.
The militant arm of Hezbollah is also considered to be a borderline as a terrorist organisation and so anyone joing them would be considered a terrorist. If the went to joing the Lebanese defence force then they probably wouldn't be considered a terrorist.
Also a pointless question as you know the answer already, the UK and US are largely controlled by the Zionists so will always support Israel.
16 August 2006, 01:20 PM
#38
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Moses.
At the moment, the British Government is siding with Israel. So that makes it ok for British citizens to fight for those causes. The British Government is not siding with Lebanon or Palastine so that makes it not ok for British citizens to fight for them.
You can dress it up all you want, but its as simple as that. Of course its double standards, but its double standards because it suits our Government at this particlar time and place to have those standards.
If they are fighting "our" troops, of course, that makes it treason, which is another matter, notwithstanding the fact that our troops arguably shouldn't be there in the first place.
At the moment, the British Government is siding with Israel. So that makes it ok for British citizens to fight for those causes. The British Government is not siding with Lebanon or Palastine so that makes it not ok for British citizens to fight for them.
You can dress it up all you want, but its as simple as that. Of course its double standards, but its double standards because it suits our Government at this particlar time and place to have those standards.
If they are fighting "our" troops, of course, that makes it treason, which is another matter, notwithstanding the fact that our troops arguably shouldn't be there in the first place.
16 August 2006, 01:40 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by Diablo
Moses.
At the moment, the British Government is siding with Israel. So that makes it ok for British citizens to fight for those causes. The British Government is not siding with Lebanon or Palastine so that makes it not ok for British citizens to fight for them.
You can dress it up all you want, but its as simple as that. Of course its double standards, but its double standards because it suits our Government at this particlar time and place to have those standards.
If they are fighting "our" troops, of course, that makes it treason, which is another matter, notwithstanding the fact that our troops arguably shouldn't be there in the first place.
At the moment, the British Government is siding with Israel. So that makes it ok for British citizens to fight for those causes. The British Government is not siding with Lebanon or Palastine so that makes it not ok for British citizens to fight for them.
You can dress it up all you want, but its as simple as that. Of course its double standards, but its double standards because it suits our Government at this particlar time and place to have those standards.
If they are fighting "our" troops, of course, that makes it treason, which is another matter, notwithstanding the fact that our troops arguably shouldn't be there in the first place.
diablo, u rock dude
, u have a blessed week and thanks
16 August 2006, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by moses
lads, if a british born muslim see's injustice, but goes to a different country, lets say palestine or afghanistan or chechnya and fights against destruction,
Question answered.
Now haven't you got some praying or something to do?
16 August 2006, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by moses
lads, if a british born muslim see's injustice, but goes to a different country, lets say palestine or afghanistan or chechnya and fights against destruction, if he is caught, they will call him a terrorist and lock him up
The only solution that will come from the middle east will be through dialogue - until that happens (unlikely to ever happen) - the killing will continue
.Alternatively - the Oil will run out and the USA wont give a **** about the muslims (or Israel).
16 August 2006, 02:10 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by moses
plz no trolling, this is a question to the sensible people plz
the question is
lads, if a british born muslim see's injustice, but goes to a different country, lets say palestine or afghanistan or chechnya and fights against destruction, if he is caught, they will call him a terrorist and lock him up
but if a british born jew, whos parents and grandparents were jewish too and have nothing to do with israel only that its a jewish state so they can go their for hols, if he can join the idf an israeli army not british and commit atrocities and kill innocent lebanese or palestinians
how come thats allowed and he aint even an israel but a brit, born here
i dont understand that, why the double standards, also we have ex army fighters the british army ones who go to the african states and get paid to be mercenaries and kill people, innocent or bad
they r allowed and only difference is, they do it for money and the muslim youth see atrocities happening against the muslims and r doing it for justice and dont get paid for it, rather do it for what they stand for
plz explain, why the double standards
cheers
the question is
lads, if a british born muslim see's injustice, but goes to a different country, lets say palestine or afghanistan or chechnya and fights against destruction, if he is caught, they will call him a terrorist and lock him up
but if a british born jew, whos parents and grandparents were jewish too and have nothing to do with israel only that its a jewish state so they can go their for hols, if he can join the idf an israeli army not british and commit atrocities and kill innocent lebanese or palestinians
how come thats allowed and he aint even an israel but a brit, born here
i dont understand that, why the double standards, also we have ex army fighters the british army ones who go to the african states and get paid to be mercenaries and kill people, innocent or bad
they r allowed and only difference is, they do it for money and the muslim youth see atrocities happening against the muslims and r doing it for justice and dont get paid for it, rather do it for what they stand for
plz explain, why the double standards
cheers
And before anyone uses the rhetoric that suicide bombers are a minor element of the uk muslim fraternity, we all know that the majority of muslims find it very tough to speak against theses bombers (usually need their arms twisted) or, with even more difficulty, express the fact that the Koran preaches peace.
16 August 2006, 02:20 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by CoobyS
And before anyone uses the rhetoric that suicide bombers are a minor element of the uk muslim fraternity, we all know that the majority of muslims find it very tough to speak against theses bombers (usually need their arms twisted) or, with even more difficulty, express the fact that the Koran preaches peace.
Every muslim I have ever met or seen on the TV has had no problem condeming suicide bombers. What they do do is try to explain why the suicide bombers feel the way they do.Even our very own moses dissaproves of suicide bombers that attack civilians
16 August 2006, 03:17 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by jasey
If it were the other way around the freedom fighters would cut off the head of the snake rather than lock him up.
The only solution that will come from the middle east will be through dialogue - until that happens (unlikely to ever happen) - the killing will continue.
Alternatively - the Oil will run out and the USA wont give a **** about the muslims (or Israel).
The only solution that will come from the middle east will be through dialogue - until that happens (unlikely to ever happen) - the killing will continue
.Alternatively - the Oil will run out and the USA wont give a **** about the muslims (or Israel).
true mate, nice one and yes the mujahideen,not all of them do cut aff the captives head unless the captives master swaps prisoners or withdraws from the occuppied land mate, unlike the usa or britian who invade and slaughter hundreds and thousands and then take some captives and abuse them and strip them naked in abu ghraib or gitmo and somodise them and do alot of evil things to them and torture them
beheading a captive aint islamic, but i believe its merciful, u r being merciful to the pow or invaded by not abusing him or harrasing him, u r keeping him alive and feeding him and then beheaded him, thats a honourable and peaceful way for a captive to die, rather than being captured
i hope u understand where i am coming from mate
cutting the head of a snake is being merciful to your enemy, thats for invading forces only not innocent civlians or workers
cheers
16 August 2006, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jasey
Every muslim I have ever met or seen on the TV has had no problem condeming suicide bombers. What they do do is try to explain why the suicide bombers feel the way they do.Even our very own moses dissaproves of suicide bombers that attack civilians
jasey thanks mate, im glad u read my posts properly and dont hijack some of my words out of context and understand what i say
cheers mate, i hope u have a happy and blessed life bud, in this life and in the hereafter
peace
16 August 2006, 03:19 PM
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in islam torturing a captive is not allowed, a pow should be looked after and fed but things have changed so much, enemy uses evil methods not even the old enemies like romans and others used to use, one has become a demon like the enemy they fight
cheers
cheers
16 August 2006, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by moses
in islam torturing a captive is not allowed, a pow should be looked after and fed but things have changed so much, enemy uses evil methods not even the old enemies like romans and others used to use, one has become a demon like the enemy they fight
cheers
cheers
16 August 2006, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by moses
beheading a captive aint islamic, but i believe its merciful, u r being merciful to the pow or invaded by not abusing him or harrasing him, u r keeping him alive and feeding him and then beheaded him, thats a honourable and peaceful way for a captive to die, rather than being captured
i hope u understand where i am coming from mate
i hope u understand where i am coming from mate
You need to do some bird at Guantanamo with the rest of the terrorist scum. Maybe they can do a little 'debriefing' on your ***!
16 August 2006, 03:36 PM
#49
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here is a verse from the quran
spoils of war
57. If ye gain the mastery over them in war, disperse, with them, those who follow them, that they may remember.
58. If thou fearest treachery from any group, throw back (their covenant) to them, (so as to be) on equal terms: for Allah loveth not the treacherous.
59. Let not the unbelievers think that they can get the better (of the godly): they will never frustrate (them).
60. Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.
61. But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah. for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things).
62. Should they intend to deceive thee,- verily Allah sufficeth thee: He it is That hath strengthened thee with His aid and with (the company of) the Believers
spoils of war
57. If ye gain the mastery over them in war, disperse, with them, those who follow them, that they may remember.
58. If thou fearest treachery from any group, throw back (their covenant) to them, (so as to be) on equal terms: for Allah loveth not the treacherous.
59. Let not the unbelievers think that they can get the better (of the godly): they will never frustrate (them).
60. Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.
61. But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah. for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things).
62. Should they intend to deceive thee,- verily Allah sufficeth thee: He it is That hath strengthened thee with His aid and with (the company of) the Believers
16 August 2006, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by moses
beheading a captive aint islamic, but i believe its merciful, u r being merciful to the pow or invaded by not abusing him or harrasing him, u r keeping him alive and feeding him and then beheaded him, thats a honourable and peaceful way for a captive to die, rather than being captured
.
16 August 2006, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by CoobyS
So moses, do you think the muslims who torture etc are in the wrong? If you could have a word with them, what would your message be?
i will say brothers, i understand the enemy has done this to u, this is not islamic and its wrong, u need to follow the ways of the prophet and if u do, the enemies of islam will see your righteous ways of war and become muslims like the enemies did in the old days
thats what i would say dude
but if someone killed my family member, chances r, i would cut them to pieces alive, so i cant follow islam that way, may God forgive me, i will take revenge in a most awful way
cheers
16 August 2006, 03:40 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by jasey
Well I guess we're going to have to disagree on that one. If I was captured and given the choice of having my head removed or being tied up to a dead pig and having american soldiers **** on the koran I'd be taking option 2 every time.
.
.no worries , God willing it wont happen to u, your a good man
if it woz me, i want to be a martyr so me getting beheaded rather than being imprisoned like an animal, i have to go for the martyrdom, but i would rather than being caught i would wanna be killed fighting the enemy till my last breath and not give in, rather cause so much infliction and get killed getting caught, ameen
16 August 2006, 03:42 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by moses
but if someone killed my family member, chances r, i would cut them to pieces alive, so i cant follow islam that way, may God forgive me, i will take revenge in a most awful way
16 August 2006, 03:42 PM
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70. O Messenger. say to those who are captives in your hands: "If Allah findeth any good in your hearts, He will give you something better than what has been taken from you, and He will forgive you: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."
71. But if they have treacherous designs against thee, (O Messenger.), they have already been in treason against Allah, and so hath He given (thee) power over them. And Allah so He Who hath (full) knowledge and wisdom.
72. Those who believed, and adopted exile, and fought for the Faith, with their property and their persons, in the cause of Allah, as well as those who gave (them) asylum and aid,- these are (all) friends and protectors, one of another. As to those who believed but came not into exile, ye owe no duty of protection to them until they come into exile; but if they seek your aid in religion, it is your duty to help them, except against a people with whom ye have a treaty of mutual alliance. And (remember) Allah seeth all that ye do.
73. The Unbelievers are protectors, one of another: Unless ye do this, (protect each other), there would be tumult and oppression on earth, and great mischief.
74. Those who believe, and adopt exile, and fight for the Faith, in the cause of Allah as well as those who give (them) asylum and aid,- these are (all) in very truth the Believers: for them is the forgiveness of sins and a provision most generous.
75. And those who accept Faith subsequently, and adopt exile, and fight for the Faith in your company,- they are of you. But kindred by blood have prior rights against each other in the Book of Allah. Verily Allah is well-acquainted with all things.
71. But if they have treacherous designs against thee, (O Messenger.), they have already been in treason against Allah, and so hath He given (thee) power over them. And Allah so He Who hath (full) knowledge and wisdom.
72. Those who believed, and adopted exile, and fought for the Faith, with their property and their persons, in the cause of Allah, as well as those who gave (them) asylum and aid,- these are (all) friends and protectors, one of another. As to those who believed but came not into exile, ye owe no duty of protection to them until they come into exile; but if they seek your aid in religion, it is your duty to help them, except against a people with whom ye have a treaty of mutual alliance. And (remember) Allah seeth all that ye do.
73. The Unbelievers are protectors, one of another: Unless ye do this, (protect each other), there would be tumult and oppression on earth, and great mischief.
74. Those who believe, and adopt exile, and fight for the Faith, in the cause of Allah as well as those who give (them) asylum and aid,- these are (all) in very truth the Believers: for them is the forgiveness of sins and a provision most generous.
75. And those who accept Faith subsequently, and adopt exile, and fight for the Faith in your company,- they are of you. But kindred by blood have prior rights against each other in the Book of Allah. Verily Allah is well-acquainted with all things.
16 August 2006, 03:44 PM
#55
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Originally Posted by moses
no worries , God willing it wont happen to u, your a good man
if it woz me, i want to be a martyr so me getting beheaded rather than being imprisoned like an animal, i have to go for the martyrdom, but i would rather than being caught i would wanna be killed fighting the enemy till my last breath and not give in, rather cause so much infliction and get killed getting caught, ameen
if it woz me, i want to be a martyr so me getting beheaded rather than being imprisoned like an animal, i have to go for the martyrdom, but i would rather than being caught i would wanna be killed fighting the enemy till my last breath and not give in, rather cause so much infliction and get killed getting caught, ameen
16 August 2006, 03:53 PM
#56
Originally Posted by DCI Gene Hunt
Why don't you round up your family and **** off to palestine where you can become a 'family' of martyrs......
16 August 2006, 03:54 PM
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Moses, a lot of what you say makes sense. Well, your logic does anyway - the English hasn't improved much 
Anyway. I think your question has already been answered quite well here. What worries me is a couple of the things you've said. First of all, while it may be merciful to cleanly lop someone's head off (though exactly how that's merciful I'm not sure), the beheadings we've seen were very different. For a start they weren't even remotely clean. Or even quick. Those poor souls were butchered alive. And what makes it even worse is that they were noncombatants. You can argue that the British man (I forget his name, sorry) made his own bed by going out there for the money. It's a pretty harsh view to take but it's not entirely without merit. But the woman was an aid worker, in Iraq to help the situation. How can that possibly be justified in any religion?
And secondly, do you really want to be a martyr? Or do you mean if you were in that situation you'd choose martyrdom? 'Cos that first option is scary, my friend...
SB
Anyway. I think your question has already been answered quite well here. What worries me is a couple of the things you've said. First of all, while it may be merciful to cleanly lop someone's head off (though exactly how that's merciful I'm not sure), the beheadings we've seen were very different. For a start they weren't even remotely clean. Or even quick. Those poor souls were butchered alive. And what makes it even worse is that they were noncombatants. You can argue that the British man (I forget his name, sorry) made his own bed by going out there for the money. It's a pretty harsh view to take but it's not entirely without merit. But the woman was an aid worker, in Iraq to help the situation. How can that possibly be justified in any religion?
And secondly, do you really want to be a martyr? Or do you mean if you were in that situation you'd choose martyrdom? 'Cos that first option is scary, my friend...
SB
16 August 2006, 03:55 PM
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I'll see your copy/paste from the book of terrorism and I'll raise you one copy/paste of common sense from the BNP
The BNP intend to ban all so called ‘ Religious Organisations’ such as the Muslim Council of Great Britain that openly support an overt political agenda, get involved in political campaigns or that interfere in political issues.
All such organisations will desist from interfering in politics, and desist in all political campaigns with religious agendas, or they will face proscription.
Those in the Muslim community that act as spokesmen or apologists for Muslim terrorism and associated issues will also face criminalisation if they in any way either support, minimise or seek to make religious or political capital out of terrorism in the UK or abroad.
The equivocation and weasel words on terrorism by sections of the Muslim community must end now. We regard those that who are not actively condemning terrorism as complicit in terrorism.
Those that speak for the terrorists will be treated by the BNP as though they are the terrorists.
All such organisations will desist from interfering in politics, and desist in all political campaigns with religious agendas, or they will face proscription.
Those in the Muslim community that act as spokesmen or apologists for Muslim terrorism and associated issues will also face criminalisation if they in any way either support, minimise or seek to make religious or political capital out of terrorism in the UK or abroad.
The equivocation and weasel words on terrorism by sections of the Muslim community must end now. We regard those that who are not actively condemning terrorism as complicit in terrorism.
Those that speak for the terrorists will be treated by the BNP as though they are the terrorists.
16 August 2006, 03:56 PM
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The British National Party Executive's solution to this problem is to ban immediately, ALL MUSLIMS from flying out of (and in to) Britain until the security situation has been fully resolved.
During recent international football competitions, a similar ban on English football hooligans was carried out, when many football fans had their passports confiscated and travel restricted.
If white working class men can be treated in this fashion it must be possible to apply a similar ban to Muslims. We need firm Government action to resolve this crisis which will thus restore confidence in air travel and remove the serious inconvenience effecting air passengers at the height of the summer school holidays.
During recent international football competitions, a similar ban on English football hooligans was carried out, when many football fans had their passports confiscated and travel restricted.
If white working class men can be treated in this fashion it must be possible to apply a similar ban to Muslims. We need firm Government action to resolve this crisis which will thus restore confidence in air travel and remove the serious inconvenience effecting air passengers at the height of the summer school holidays.
