EVOLUTION

get up ya, if you meant up ya bot, that is seriously bad advice.....


i bought this T-shirt for when i hit the magical 10 stone mark, now fu**in look at me......

SideShowBob

Dont worry about supplements for now, if you've only been going a few weeks, get you diet in order, train hard and correctly, and the rest will follow with time.

Ive had advise from a lot of people, and the best advise was get the diet sorted. If you want to build muscle, eat lots of the right foods, increase your calorie intake, and do low reps, heavy weights, without working a muscle group more than once a week (muscles grow while resting, not working).

I do take protein whey, but I do it alongside increasing my calories, and eating more things like tuna, chicken, etc, and use it as part of a shake to increase my overall calorie intake (you'd be amazed how many cals you need to build!!)

My milkshake is simlar to one from a chap who does a lot of advising on bulking/cutting diets, and consists of:
2 big scoops of Protein Whey (concentrate from myprotien)
A Banana
Flax oil (tablespoon)
Scottish oats
Peanut butter
and water or milk

Mix it up in an electric mixer, put it in a container, take it to work, and drink it during the day.

Gives you a bunch of cals, and a good amount of protein, plus its all natural.

Then, take some protien shortly after your workout.

I know some supplements are good, but without a properly sorted diet, they'll make minimal impact. Whats your training schedule look like?

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

So the best time to take it in would be just before a workout and then straight after?

Dont really have a training schedule as such, just been concentrating on cardio work and lots of swimming.

Have just quit smoking too, (from 30 a day) So trying to build up fitness and stamina, once this is done I will move onto weights and building.

There is a huge choice on supliments and gear, everybody seems to have a different one though, suppose its just going to be trial and error

TelBoy

It doesn't have to be trial and error. Look what dosage of creatine is provided, it will tell you on the tub. One with high carbs is the one to go for, it helps absorption. Everyone has their own favorite brand, but Multipower's Professional range is a good benchmark if you're comparing contents. Basically buy the best you can afford.

But that aside, creatine is a fairly advanced supplement. It's no substitute for years of hard work in the gym. Comments like "i've been going for eight weeks now" just make me laugh. You don't need creatine after eight weeks, not even eight months. Get real. You also don't need all the other supplements they peddle, it really is a total **** take and rip off. Eat more, eat sensibly, train hard (once a week per muscle group is NOT sufficient except for real novices), and you'll make progress.

People who don't change are those who don't train heavy or intensely enough, those who think a Big Mac is a balanced meal, those who stare at the skirt in the gym and those who **** thirty quid's worth of booze up against the wall every Friday and Saturday night. It's not rocket science if you apply your mind and body to it.

rossi_p

iTrader: (26)

I was going to the gym for one year before I tried any supplements. They can and do make a difference but at the end of the day, three things matter more than what supplements you take:

1 - training hard, being half arsed won't get any results.
2 - basic nutrition, if your body doesn't get what it needs then you won't train efficiently.
3 - rest, don't expect to stay up till 1 every morning, get drunk all the time and expect results.

http://www.bodybuilding.com./fun/index.html is a brilliant source for training techniques, ideas and supplement information.

Try http://www.bodyshapersfitness.com/ to buy supplements as generally deliver the next day and are pretty good.

Remember to enjoy it, and keep track of progress otherwise you can get bored, forget targets and then stop going (making it all poinless anyway!).

Good luck

SideShowBob

[QUOTE=TelBoy](once a week per muscle group is NOT sufficient except for real novices), and you'll make progress.

I agree with everything you emnton there Telboy, except the muscle group training bit.

Cookstar, forget supplements for now, improve your diet to include lots of healthy foods, varied, and complete, and start using supplements when you have specific goals to achieve.

As far as mucle group per week is concerned, the best mass building routine, for most people, is:
DAY 1 PULL

Deadlifts
Dumbbell Rows or Wide Grip Chins
Barbell Curls or Close Grip Underhand Chins or Hammer Curls

DAY 2 PUSH

Incline or Flat Barbell or Dumbbell Bench Press
Barbell or Dumbbell Shoulder Presses
Tricep Dips or tricep extensions or Close Grip Bench Press

DAY 3 LEGS

Front or Back Squats
Barbell or Dumbbell Stiff Leg Deadlifts
Calf Raises (3x12)
Weighted Crunches or Weighted Hanging Leg Raises (3x12)

The routine above concentrates on muscle groups on a once per week basis, which is what the pro's use to build mass.
Its taken from a very experienced bodybuilder, and backed up by a number of other very experienced bodybuilders, and anything more than once a week would result in overtraining of that muscle group.
If you are going natural, and have spent a few months in the gym training your muscles, then the above routine is ideal.

Few articles here:

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/m_8817/m...y_/tm.htm#8817

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/jmace4.htm

http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/overtran.htm

Ive not found anything to support training any muscle group hard more than once a week, unless you are doing roids.

TelBoy

Sorry SSB, but it ain't as simple as that. Big muscle groups once a week maybe if you're in a mass building phase, but biceps, tris, delts, calves, forearms and abs nobody won anything important just training them once a week. Trust me on this.

CataIunya

If your after good results as quick as possible try:
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/
After a normal regime I have been through a cycle of HST and the results are pretty impressive. The hardest part is getting your diet right, going to the gym is the easy part lol.

CataIunya

and thats full body every other day.......

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Thank you for re-instating a bit of common sense, Telboy!!

You want to get bigger: Be prepared to work for it; sorry but there are NO magic potions, no "look like Arnie in 2 weeks" supplements. Eat well, watch your alcohol intake, train regularly, be prepared to wait for the results and they'll come. it WILL NOT happen over night. Many of us inolved with weights have had to train years to get whatever physique we have.

Everyones looking for a short cut or quick fix these days and it's just not how your physiology works I'm afraid.

Ns04

CataIunya

If anybody thinks that hst I have posted is a "quick fix" its not, its just a good way to makes gains quickly...

CataIunya

Has the price gone up its coming up with 15.99 for me?

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

No offence intended mate, I wasn't singling you out!

I'm just re-iterating what Tel said, no supplements are a substitute for hard work and years of dedication. Diet is critical and supplements have their place, but many people have just the wrong attitudde towards them and the gym generally; exactly the kind of person that Tel was referring to.

Ns04

SideShowBob

I disagree, the bicep is made up of two very small muscles, that are possibly the easiest of all to overtrain.
Smaller muscle groups are more prone to overtraining that the larger ones, and you employ the smaller muscle groups whenever you work the larger ones, for example, bench press, uses triceps, pull ups use biceps, so you've worked them already, then do one excercise concentrating just on them, and thats more than enough, you keep training them, you'll overtrain them very quickly.

I suppose we both have different exoeriences and influences/information around this TelBoy, and at the end of the day, whatever works for you is the right routine, there's no right or worng routine per say, but for myself, and based on all the research ive done, I believe push, pull, legs split to be the best to gain bulk and muscle.

CataIunya

Totally agree with SSB bicep is a very small muscle easily overtrained, compound exercises are always the way to go. Helps build your core stability more as well which a lot of people overlook.

SideShowBob

Cookstar, read this http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/m_110145...tm.htm#1101455 I know your goals are different, but explains nicely the importance of diet, and where supplements fit in.

TelBoy

My research is twenty years in the gym and competing to national level. Each to their own.

SideShowBob

Thats seriously impressive Telboy, do you have a routine you follow? as id be keen to see it to compare it against mine.

Have you used the muscletalk forums at all?

TelBoy

No mate, i do it almost recreationally now, my primetime was early 90s. You never lose your desire to pit yourself against the bar though. Generally i now do something very similar to what you outlined earlier, but that's a function of my age and my goals in the sport now. In the decade from 1986 onwards i seriously pounded the weights, even following a twice daily split routine for competitions. It was fun. But eventually grinding out 400lb+ squats week after week becomes less of a life priority, it happens to us all.

lightning101

This thread's silly

TelBoy

It is now YOU'RE here

And don't show off about how many elephants you can bench press

AudiLover

you gotta buy 2 tubs of unflavoured whey for the deal, i forgot to mention.

AudiLover

You could be on to something. When I first started training I trained my biceps three times a week. I then read on the internet forums about all this training muscles once a week stuff. My biceps since havent done any real preogress. I have now gone back to training them twice a week and I can already tell a difference after a couple weeks.

TelBoy

Cool

Unless you want to get into powerlifting (and don't get me wrong, all the best bodybuilders have at some time done their fair share), you need to do more than once a week. Or if we're getting into detail, i'd recommend three weeks of twice a week per smaller bodypart, then two weeks of once a week and so on, if that makes sense. That gives a good balance between frequency, intensity and recuperation.

B9GLY

something ive always wondered about this training schedule??

people say 2 or 3 times a week is all you should train but you then watch an interview with marius pudzianowski and he says he trains twice a day 6 days a week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yes,yes, i know its at a completly different level but how does his body have time to rest and grow?????

I do my weights 4 or 5 times a week and i seem to be doing quite well???

TelBoy

He takes drugs mate, that's how he can do that. And lots of them.

What i've always advised people is to listen to your body. When you feel like it, go for it. When your body says "enough", don't be afraid to listen. I've walked out of the gym before even starting once or twice! Felt awful, but sometimes you just need to do that. Don't become a gym rat. Overtraining is a common problem, but i'd also say that guys just going through the motions instead of really going for it is a bigger problem for many. The body doesn't want to change, it needs a damned good reason to. After the initial burst of development, you have to really go nuts occasionally, not just "turn up" like so many guys seem to, who are then the ones who quit.

Jamescsti

I take a protein shake for breakfast (MEtRX currently)
And creatine capsules in the afternoon (4 a day)

However when I was on the loading phase of creatine I took 20 capsules a day for 5 days.
Then dropped to the 4 per day.

Forgot to mention I definately notice a difference with the creatine, would recommend it

B9GLY

what drugs is he on then?? thought they would be checked in competition??

at 16 he benched 160kg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! his record now is 275kg, that is mental!

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

ASAIK steroids are out of your system pretty quickly, so they will take them untill just before a competition.

Kyl3cook

My opinion on Creatine is mixed, but on the whole quite good.

I have been taking it (along with Lean System 7) for 4 weeks now, and in that time I have put on 6kg (from 87kg to 93kg), and noticed a nice improvement in definition. It has made me push higher weights, and my recovery time has improved. I have upped my cardio to between 30-45 minutes per gym session (5 times a week)....however, at the end of this batch of creatine, I'll stop using it, despite the reltaively good gains. My reasons are...

If you don't hystrate yourself enough (as I didn't once), you get god awful cramps....and since taking creatine my big toe has become numb, and my fingers have become 'tingly'.....now I don't know if this is linked, but it's the only thing I can assume, as I have stopped the LS7.

It's good for a little boost I think, but I won't live on it.