richardg

no, mine's 600kg. the engine's standard for the moment (other than removal of the fuel injection kit and reversion to carb). with a cam and few other relatively simple goodies, i could see 200+/tonne probably costing a few hundred quid!

my impreza is a standard bugeye wrx (02) with an sti rear silencer. the performance of the two is very similar although the power is obviously delivered in different ways

i haven't run either next to a bike engined car, but i'm sure there are dyno charts about somewhere (not that i know how to read them!) or someone on blatchat will know (not necessarily about mac#1's, but pinto v bike)

richardg

hang on, my maths is crap. the car is about 600kg, i have about 187bhp/tonne, so i must therefore have approx 112bhp from my pinto with the carb and the exhaust.
so 200bhp+/tonne should be no problem at all

OllyK

The Marlin 5EXi (not a 7 look-a-like) has a certain appeal at the moment. Slightly less ***** out in terms of handling perhaps, but a 200Bhp Civic Type R or 2L Turbo Rover engine in something that weighs 550Kg with a Rover K series engine in it should be interesting.

richardg

they look good. i agree with what you say about the handling. in a straight line probably one hell of a monster, but then you're paying more for it in comparison to a simple pinto engined LSIC (lotus seven inspired car) so you'd expect that. i think i saw one at the detling show in kent earlier this year. there are loads of kits well worth looking at, but if you do buy second hand they're obviously only as good as whoever built them

K series is popular with all sorts of kits. caterhams often run the 1.4 i think

there is quite a kit car scene in your neck of the woods (ie you're close to there than me). stoneleigh (can;t remember where that's near, but i've been there a couple of times now) is a good show and well worth a look. you should also take a look at www.totalkitcar.com if you're looking for more inspiration

OllyK

Oh for sure, and that is perhaps a concern.

Stoneleigh is in Warwickshire, the other half used to live in Rugby and we've been to the market there on the airfield a couple of times. May have to take a wander out there next spring.

Hanslow

Here's some more MX-5 Westy based info. I'm sorely tempted with something like this but I just know I'd never actually finish it! http://www.flyinmiata.com/westfield/

Got 4 out of 5 in October Evo apparantly

Would just need one of these on it

Add in this thread for some interesting power increased reading.

Potential for 200 odd bhp in a 600 kg car?

OllyK

Indeed, have a look at Ultima for silly. 990 Kg but 720 Bhp. £15K for the kit but no engine or gear box Leaves an Enzo in its wake! http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/gtr/specification.html

Dracoro

One thing you have to bear in mind is lesson one: Learn how to drive all over again. 7s (I've a westie with a 2.0 16v vx lump - 190bhp or so) are very communicative and instant. Very easy to overcorrect on your first wet corner, no abs, no power steering, no aids at all. Very easy to spin & crash and most people who do crash do this shortly after buying one. They don't do any work FOR you, they do however work very well WITH you, keep this in mind. Anyway, this is all part of the fun, you learn and grow with the car and it's ultimately the most fun thing to have on 4 wheels.

For £10k you'll get a v.good 16v westie (vx or or ford engines mostly). Be aware that they will all need some care but because everything is simple and accesible, it's cheap to sort.

Insurance, I pay £150 fully comp, 5k miles but I'v ehad it 2/3 years now. Started off at £280. 32, garaged, South london(Purley). You will have to go specialist insurers though (and right thing too!) as main ones haven't a clue.

I would recommend you do research what you want properly as there's rarely two of them the same and there's many configurations. General preference for most people is car engine for mainly road driving (still ace on track though! Oh yes!) and bike engines for mainly track driving. A car engine would probably be more reliable. Bike engines/gearboxes/clutches are designed with 200kg in mind, not 500 kg + driver so see what's been uprated to cope with the extra weight. some bike engines cope better than others although I couldn't tell you which. Go over to wscc.co.uk to find out more.

OllyK

Interesting thought about the bike engine - thanks!

richardg

valid point about the bike engine!

OllyK

Indeed, as it will mostly be for use on the road, it looks like I shall go for a car engine, the question is which one

Chelspeed

K series is one option, light and plentiful. 1400 is hard work as no torque. 1600 or 1800 are fairly bullet proof, they have head gasket problems in the Elise application but don't seem to in the Se7ens. Can take the K out to 1900 or even 2000 with some serious expense but then you can be looking at around 250bhp.

Ford engines - Xflow - simple and crude, fairly light, very old design but very cheap for parts, can get 135bhp with a pair of 40's. Pinto - boat anchor of an engine, very big, very tall and all cast iron but can see up to 200bhp with the right mods. Zetec - much lighter but bits more expensive, looked like the way to go 5 years ago but seems to have been superseded by the Duractec. Duratec - all alloy again, chain drive cams, very good valves, cams, head, ports as standard, fairly lazy engine that doesn't seem to like being revved much. 2 litre doing up to 280bhp now and 2.3 over 300bhp.

Vauxhall XE - this is the old red top (cam cover, not inlet manifold!) engine out of the Astra GTE, stick throttle bodies on this and it's over 200bhp without touching the internals. You can then tune it up to nearly 300bhp by spending more and more on steel bits etc etc. This is a magic engine.

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

I must say that after doing my research, the one for me was a VX engined Westfield on TB's.

Utterly reliable 300HP/ton for under £10k

OllyK

All good info, thanks. Hadn't rally considered Vauxhall as most of the kits I've been looking at have a ford or rover donor vehicle, however, I'm not against exploring the options!

OllyK

VX as in from a VX220?

Hanslow

Likely to be the XE as mentioned by Chelspeed.

OllyK

The murky waters clear a little

Chelspeed

Yep Vx as in Vauxhall rather than VX220.

The VX220 has the 2.2 ecotec engine I think. Similar but newer and with an emissions targeted head rather than a performance orientated head. It's alloy block rather than cast iron like the XE but they're much rarer, much less bits available and generally less tuneable.

Hanslow

I think the XE was also in cars such as the Cavalier GSi (or whatever the speedy variant of that was). Quite good torquey and power capable engines. Getting harder to find decent ones now though (so I believe) which is why a lot of people are going more down the Zetec route.

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

Yes, sorry Olly, a Vauxhall XE engine. The terminology is a steep but quick learning curve

OllyK

Quick look on EBay suggests a GTE can be had for 300 notes or so. Not bad I guess.

Dracoro

The vauxhall engines cars were most popular in the 90's (in westies and caterinvans) and some still being built. However due to SVA and emissions regulations more modern engines are being used.

Remember many of them, esp newer ones aren't old style 'donor' kit cars. They are just like caterhams, you can buy all the bits you need from them or components made by the manufacturers (i.e. avo shocks, xyz wheels, abc steering racks etc.). The only 'donor' that is really needed is the engine (you could buy new if you really wanted to, not much point tho, a well done re-conditioned engine will be as new and already bedded in etc.), also required is the gearbox and diff, the rest, Westfield will supply off the shelf. You can buy Westfields fully built (just like caterhams) or in kit form (just like caterhams)

Mine was a westfield kit, professionally built with the XE engine (190bhp on twin weber 45 carbs) mated to an ultra close ratio caterham 6 speed box (yes, a caterham box in a westie ), SBD exhaust (sbd are specialist who race westies and are well known) + lots of other nice goodies. So there was no donor vehicle as such on many westies/caterhams. You can still go the donor car route as westfield are offering the kit to join with the Mazda MX5.

So basically there's 3 types of 'kit' westfield:
1) Factory fully built model
2) Factory car in component form, you put together.
3) Chassis and body from westfield and you get a donor car for the rest etc.

Oh yes, on the subject above of emissions/sva. All (kit or amateur built) cars since 1 august 1998 need to have been SVA'd and the emissions requirement should be in the V5. Cars built before this need to pass the test for cars built before 1975 (i.e. visible smoke only ). Mine was built just before (1997) so none of this worrying about emissions at mot time I can pollute as much as I like as long as it doesn't smoke LOL Needless to say, this gives you more flexibility come tuning time

OllyK

A wealth of useful info - thanks...

A-ha, so maybe this route is not the way to go.

I'm leaning towards the Marlin 5Exi at the moment, not quite as extreme as the westies / caterham's in terms of handling perhaps (that'll suit the misses) but the performance still looks promising. This does however seem to need quite a few donor bits from a Rover 200 / 25. The nice thing is they provide a free engine fitting service if it's for an engine they haven't fitted before. Any good general reconditioned engine suppliers you can recommend or is it a case of get what you want and take it to a local garage? This is all new to me so all these tips and hints are great!! Shame my godfather has passed away, he used to love rebuilding engines.

The MX5 based westie still appeals, and I'm still pondering on that, just not sure how available the MX5's are within the required age range.

Hmmm - decisions, decisions! I'm reasonably practical so I could probably build it myself, especially if no welding is required. The trouble is likely to be time in terms of having it up and running for next summer!

Indeed - but I'd be looking at an 8 year old car for this which will probably have been ragged to bits anyway. Mind you it would probably be cheap to buy and just throw a new reconditioned engine at it.

Dracoro

Mine's only got 7500 miles on the clock (yes, I really must drive it more ) and in very god condition, no way would anyone think it's 9 years old, looks about 2/3 years old, if that. Remember, many people look after these sort of cars and don't do much mileage.

yu shouln't need to weld anything on a westie or caterham kit unless you are fitting something odd under that bonnet

OllyK

Well I guess it's worth a look in the Auto Trader when the time comes and see what's on offer!

Dracoro

try the ads in wscc.

OllyK

Cheers

Hanslow

Also check out Pistonheads (but you probably knew that already ) and www.findit.co.uk

OllyK

Cheers!

richardg

...and ebay as well
my neighbour sold his tiger super six on there and within 2 days of posting the auction, he had about 15 watchers! quite a few people called to ask questions and in the end he shifted it in about 3 days - this was about a month ago, so the weather was probably a big factor
worth noting that the pedals can be very close together in some of these cars, so have a good look around the shows and check you can actually drive the thing before making an offer (one guy put a deposit on the super six and then realised his feet were too big. he was disappointed, but one of his mates squirted water at him from a plastic flower on his lapel and then all went home laughing. honk, honk!)