Flatcapdriver

Good to see the Daily Mail readers out in force this morning.

For the ill informed:

1. Pit bulls are banned in the UK.

2. Breed specific attacks have more to do with the type of people attracted to that breed which unfortunately tarnishes the responsible owners.

3. One attack doesn't make an epidemic. There are millions of households around the world where children and dogs co-exist quite happily.

OK. I understand that this type of reasoning won't sit well with the usual media hyped individuals who have nothing better to do than slaver impotently over issues they have a slim grasp of but at least it injects a degree of realism into what will turn into the usual Scoobynet gang bang.

Saxo Boy's suggestion regarding licensing/training for dog owners is the correct way forward, rather than banning specific breeds in much the same way that driver training will increase safety levels on our roads, rather than more speed cameras.

davyboy

A great example of someone missing the point

r32

Dont jump on the there's no dangerous dogs (or other animals for that reason) only dangerous owners thingy. Animals suffer from the same mental issues that humans do, even more so when interbred.
So it can be both.....

Moley

iTrader: (9)

Well when i read a line about a baby being killed then see a at the end of that line i don't see it how you see it.

LG John

I was under the impression from my girlfriend (dog warden) that you can still have them but you must keep them muzzled and on a leash at all times when out in public

Flatcapdriver

Well, I'd make the distinction between the American Pit Bull (banned) and a Staffordshire Bull Terrier (not banned).

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

If the parents knew that the dogs would have access to the child then I don't agree. When you're dealing with kids and something that has the capacity to hurt them, you MUST assume worst case scenario. Children should never be left unsupervised around dogs, regardless of how placid they normally are. In this instance the parents should certainly not have left their child around two dogs that size, especially when the dogs weren't even theirs!!! Just asking if someone elses dogs will be ok with your kids is NOT good enough. The owners WILL NOT know!!

My old dog was a Staffie and loved kids, you couldn't have wished to have met a nicer, more affectionate dog, but I NEVER let him play unsupervised around my young neice and nephew!

I'm sorry, but if the accounts are accurate, then it WAS highly unwise to leave that child in such a position that the dogs had access to it. They have paid a VERY high price for this. I've no doubt that this was the very last thing they would have expected to happen and that they're devastated. They have my sympathy and condolences, but lets not let PC rule the day. This was a mistake that has had tragic consequences; it should not have been allowed to happen.

Ns04

Norman D. Landing

I'd just like to point out that dogs are not a poduct of their upbringing. They are a product of evolution just like any other animal (unless Genetic Engineering has been involved). For anybody to assume that a baby is safe alone with any dog is ridiculous !

You could use the analogy of the certifiable nutters who play with/breed/raise Lions/Tigers (Ok, they are feline but the analogy stands) in South Africa etc. Eventually, most get eaten by their charges, simply becasue that animal, despite having the correct 'upbringing' is, on a one on one situation with an adult human, a long way further up the food chain and will win EVERY time. The wrong provocation one day and it's goodbye nutter.

The breed of dog in question is also generally a lot stronger than their owner/master, which is why most people cross to the other side of the street when some tit with 2 Rotweillers comes sauntering towards them struggling to lean back and keep them under control.

Dog ownership should be licensed again with licenses costing more as you go up the 'Dangerous' scale.

DCI Gene Hunt

Agree with NDL..... but I'd take it a step further........ a legal requirement to have a DOG LICENCE & PET LIABILITY INSURANCE....... not for snuffikins if he needs a worm tablet... but for anyone he bites, maims or kills.....

The end of council estate dole-ite chavy dog owners....

LG John

Staffordshire Bull Terrier's don't have to be muzzled and leashed in public though and there is definately at breed of Pittbull that has to be I saw one this morning - small, but foooking hard looking!!

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Problem is, that's not going to stop this:

Common sense is all that is required (i.e. don't walk dogs you're not strong enough to control), unfortunately so many people seem to be lacking that these days!!

We do need to keep things in perspective; these kind of attacks are v rare and most Rotties I've had experience of have been lovely.

Ns04

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

No need, If I were PM such individuals would have been "put down" long ago!!
Ns04

Flatcapdriver

Your first point concerns the 'nurture versus nature' debate and a dog's behavioural traits are moulded just as much by it's upbringing as by it's evolution, which brings me on to your second point regarding interaction with lions and tigers. This again, is erroneous because dogs have evolved alongside humans for millions of years whereas humans and the feline species you allude haven't. The link is tenuous at best.

How would you decide which dog is dangerous? How would you apply it? How would you decide who should be allowed to own a more dangerous dog and who shouldn't? Flawed and unworkable.

Flatcapdriver

Most dogs don't have to be muzzled. Perhaps he wasn't socialised with other dogs so the owner was taking precautions? All dogs have to be leashed in public if you take the law literally.

Scrappy9

Nice Theory, but people are supposed to have driving licenses, car insurance etc. But the scum take no notice of 'the rules' so why would they bother with what you suggest.

I guess I also miss the point with regard to the opening post on this thread, a baby died for FS can't believe someone could be so flippant?

LG John

I wonder if you'd be able to transfer your No-Maul Bonus from one dog to the next?

scoobfan

Isn't ignorrance blissfull

Rob

SJ_Skyline

Behead all dogs!

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Dangerous Dogs Act:

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welf...ogsleaflet.pdf

DCI Gene Hunt

Because if they don't have them the dog can be taken off them and impounded & destroyed............ as it's then illegal..........

scoobfan

Some sense at last.

LG John

F*ck you Rob - where have i professed ANYWHERE in this thread to being a dog expert!!! I think you'll find half my posts have been questions and my statement that a liscensing system is needed requires know knowledge of the species of dogs but rather an understanding that there clearing is a problem.

Norman D. Landing

A matter of opinion but hey we've all got one so fair enough.

So by that reasoning, just because Rover's great Grandad was in the proximity of humans 40 years ago, then Rover shouldn't be biting us now? I'm afraid that Rover is still biting !


Apologies for the formatting but this was a cut of a PDF table, but heres a start. Dog bite related deaths in Breed order (Taken from http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf Canadian study but I'm sure it cant be far from relevant for most countries?)

Death-based approach Dog-based approach
Breed Purebred Crossbred Total Purebred Crossbred Total
Pit bull-type 66 11* 76* 98 20 118
Rottweiler 39 6* 44* 60 7 67
German Shepherd Dog 17 11* 27* 24 17 41
Husky-type (includes at least 2 Siberian) 15 6 21 15 6 21
Malamute 12 3 15 13 3 16
Wolf-dog hybrid 0 14 14 0 15 15
Mixed-breed (NOS) 0 12 12 0 47 47
Chow Chow 8 3 11 8 13 21
Doberman 9 1 10 12 1 13
Saint Bernard 7 1 8 7 1 8
Great Dane 7 1* 7* 11 2 13
Labrador Retriever 1 4 5 1 7 8
Akita 4 0 4 4 0 4
Sled-type (NOS) 3 0 3 12 0 12
Bulldog 2 1 3 2 1 3
Mastiff 2 1 3 4 1 5
Boxer 2 1 3 4 1 5
Collie 0 3 3 0 6 6
Bullmastiff 1 1 2 1 1 2
Hound-type (NOS) 1 1 2 1 1 2
Retriever-type (NOS) 1 0 1 1 0 1
Chesapeake Bay Retriever 1 0 1 1 0 1
West Highland Terrier (NOS) 1 0 1 1 0 1
Terrier-type (NOS) 1 0 1 1 0 1
Japanese Hunting Dog (NOS) 1 0 1 1 0 1
Newfoundland 1 0 1 1 0 1
Coonhound 1 0 1 1 0 1
Sheepdog (NOS) 1 0 1 1 0 1
Australian Shepherd 0 1 1 0 3 3
Rhodesian Ridgeback 1 0 1 1 0 1
Cocker Spaniel 1 0 1 1 0 1
*A purebred dog and a crossbred dog of this breed were involved in a single fatality; therefore, that breed is counted only
once in the total column.

Doesn't seem flawed, nor unworkable. Again this is only my opinion.

Licensing dog ownership to prevent these situation cropping up again and again has surely got to be better than doing nothing and hoping?

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

It also has alot to do with the dogs generic makeup and the dogs ability kill/injure.

PG

Oh Man! My dogs are nowhere near 'hard' enough! I'm going to have to upgrade!

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Whatever anyone anybody says, eating babies is not good PR for the Rottweiler, I personally dont like them but have only had dealings with two, I am sure some/most are lovely dogs, I personally wouldnt get anything that I couldnt control if it went off on one, Chiwauwa next time then.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Cocker Spaniel 1 0 1 1 0 1

Wahey, our dog is 'mostly harmless', factor in the blindness and the deafness its a no brainer, she isnt ever going to maul me.

Thing is though, with her mouth problems one bit could be fatal, via infection, like a Komodo Dragon.

DCI Gene Hunt

That's also binary code for 'look's rather gay'..........

Norman D. Landing

Coonhound 1 0 1 1 0 1 !!??

Woah, didn't spot that ! This could turn into a whole different kind of thread !

davegtt

Put down all black dogs